-RC- Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) Hi all, I have some questions around the harvesting of banesteriopsis caapi vine. What is the process involved in harvesting the vine? Do people only cut it back so far? Is the material then dried? If so how? What thickness is a go/no go? Do people generally keep leaves and all, or just vine? Any info around this would be greatly illuminating. Cheers, RC Edited September 26, 2020 by Responsible Choice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnel Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 hi i brought some caapi leaves dried on ebay recently 50 dollers for 30 grams goes well in certain smoking blends. If you have alot you could prob look up a tec to extract the leaves to x 10 sorry i cant help with your other questions cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Jeesus h. $50 for 30 grams! Mate next time hit me up, I'll fill a bag for you for the price of postage. Harvesting vine, the thicker the better. Anything around a finger thickness is fine for a brew. I find fresh vine makes a sweeter tasting brew than dried, but either is fine. Dried is easy to measure doses, say 90g dried per serve. Fresh, you need to estimate what the water content is, and I usually go for 150g per serve. You can make an extract if you're wanting to capsule it or for other uses. Vine is MUCH MUCH easier and less messy than leaves, even though by weight leaves contain more active alkaloids. Brews made with leaves don't settle as well as vine. You end up with a very fine suspension. Not really an issue if you just want a brew. If you're extracting, you might find adding a clearing agent like gelatin might help clear your solution before basing. All theoretically speaking of course... You can cut your vine right back to a stump and it will shoot again, faster and thicker. I mostly wait until my vines fall off their supporting trellises and cut. This wind usually helps. Even small tendrils are worth saving for use. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Oh yeah forgot about the drying part... I cut vine into sections that are about a finger length then just let them sit around. Sometimes in the sun, sometimes in the dark. There's no rules. You can leave it in longer sections, it will just take a bit longer to dry. Dried stuff tends to break up into finer pieces or even powder. Fresh stays stringy and fibrous. You probably get a more efficient extraction with dried due to this. Personally though, if I'm making a brew, I like fresh. You could freeze fresh stuff then thaw it to lyse cell walls a bit, but not sure it's terribly effective seeing as it's quite woody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-RC- Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 Ah Glaukus, thank you for your wise counsel. Exactly the type of info I was after. My vine has gone bonkers and needs a definite cut back before it completely absorbs my guava. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 26 minutes ago, Responsible Choice said: Before it completely absorbs my guava. Now that's an ethnobotanical double entendre if ever I heard one! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-RC- Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 ^Indeed! Now let's just say someone had some Nexus psychotria as well. What kind of ratio of vine to psyc is a common admixture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnel Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 17 hours ago, Glaukus said: Jeesus h. $50 for 30 grams! Mate next time hit me up, I'll fill a bag for you for the price of postage. Harvesting vine, the thicker the better. Anything around a finger thickness is fine for a brew. I find fresh vine makes a sweeter tasting brew than dried, but either is fine. Dried is easy to measure doses, say 90g dried per serve. Fresh, you need to estimate what the water content is, and I usually go for 150g per serve. You can make an extract if you're wanting to capsule it or for other uses. Vine is MUCH MUCH easier and less messy than leaves, even though by weight leaves contain more active alkaloids. Brews made with leaves don't settle as well as vine. You end up with a very fine suspension. Not really an issue if you just want a brew. If you're extracting, you might find adding a clearing agent like gelatin might help clear your solution before basing. All theoretically speaking of course... You can cut your vine right back to a stump and it will shoot again, faster and thicker. I mostly wait until my vines fall off their supporting trellises and cut. This wind usually helps. Even small tendrils are worth saving for use. thanks pretty pricey I know but i was keen to try it out,and glad I did its so mild to smoke with other things probably be in touch next time im after some cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Responsible Choice said: ^Indeed! Now let's just say someone had some Nexus psychotria as well. What kind of ratio of vine to psyc is a common admixture? Ok, I have heard nexus is about half as strong as regular viridis, and for viridis you'd need 100-120g. So probably 200-250g of nexus per serve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagiXsagi Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 following.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycot Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I have a question that is related to harvesting caapi. It is actually a question that has been bothering me for many years. In the caapi vine sections that are generally used for a brew, where are the alkaloids. Is it in the central woody part of the vine, or is it in the inner bark of the cortex. I can't find a definitive answer anywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I'd say it's distributed through the core wood mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycot Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Most people only guess at the answer. I'd take your answer as a guess. I've never found a definitive study even addressing the issue. If the alkaloids are distributed in both, then what percentage of total alkaloids in each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-RC- Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 I would've assumed there to be a variable distribution, as in the leaves to bark ratio. Any study can't be even close to definitive because of the real world variables that affect alkaloid production in any plant. Take a vine from the jungle and compare it to a backyard homegrown vine and I wouldn't be surprised to see dramatic differences across all plant matter, including roots. Hooj guess of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycot Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I appreciate your answer. However alkaloid levels in caapi has been studied and measured on countless occasions. Alkaloid levels in caapi leaf has been measured on numerous occasions These studies weren't pointless, we have learnt something from them. We've learnt about alkaloid range and how vine sections generally compare with leaf. I think an important question in this regard is what percentage of the material is actually inner bark. If it is substantial then the question becomes very important, rather than something that can be disregarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Vine doses are measured by weight, and by weight, they are mostly wood. There wouldn't be a linear relationship between weight and dose if the majority of alkaloids weren't in the wood. But it might be an interesting experiment to try. I'm happy to try some amateur science to add some data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycot Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) I love science, the bigwigs are often too stupid to know how to do it, which is why underground science still exists. I'll be staying tuned and be stoked for any data added. Edited October 16, 2020 by Mycot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withdrawl clinic Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 On 16/10/2020 at 6:35 PM, Glaukus said: I'd say it's distributed through the core wood mostly. i think it's mostly in the cambium layer, not the woody core. we don't know why plants contain alkaloids, but often they are seen as a defence mechanism. the woody core doesn't need to protect it's self but the outer cambium part is vital for survival. On 26/09/2020 at 5:18 PM, Glaukus said: Jeesus h. $50 for 30 grams! Harvesting vine, the thicker the better. . the thicker the better, is used traditionaly, but it's not more potent, it's milder and kinder to the human, thats why "thick" material gets used. more alkaloids are contained in younger shoots. again a very thick vine doesn't need to worry about survival, even if it get's attacked by an insect/animal. but thin stems are more vanuble to attack, so the plant protects them more with alkaloids. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, withdrawl clinic said: i think it's mostly in the cambium layer, not the woody core. we don't know why plants contain alkaloids, but often they are seen as a defence mechanism. the woody core doesn't need to protect it's self but the outer cambium part is vital for survival. the thicker the better, is used traditionaly, but it's not more potent, it's milder and kinder to the human, thats why "thick" material gets used. more alkaloids are contained in younger shoots. What leads you to think the cambium layer is the highest concentration? I'll run a few small changes experiments to see if it adds up, might take a while though. It's an interesting discussion for sure, but I'm not sure what difference it makes in the end though. If, for a length of vine, the majority of alkaloids are in the cambium, you would still need to cut the same length of vine to achieve the desired result. It would certainly be easier to process the whole cross section that it would be to remove only a part of the cross section. My experience with thicker vine leads me to believe it is stronger per weight than the same weight of thinner material. And thicker vine would have a higher proportion of core than thinner vine by weight, so my assumption is that the core holds the bulk. Maybe it's like cactus though. The green layer of outer flesh has the highest % but overall, often more total alkaloids are yielded by the white flesh due to its total weight. It's been a while since we have done any experiments like this here, back to what SAB used to be about; knowledge! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-RC- Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Has anyone ever came across any references to the use of mushrooms as the DMT source in a brew? Or is psilocin not strict enough as a DMT/viridis/acacia substitute? I've seen much about the mushroom/rue psilohuasca mix, but not with the vine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayN Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 ^ wouldnt the heat be problematic? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ypsilophora Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 If one added them after brewing the vine, so no cooking of psilocin, then it should work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strontium Dawg Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Part 1: 200g very thin tendrils (<5mm diameter). Dried, shredded to fines, acidified, PC x2, settled and decanted several times. Based, washed. Recovered 128mg fb harmalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withdrawl clinic Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 the younger parts of almost all plants with psychotropic properties are "stronger"! but as well, with thin sections you will get statisticly far more of the active cambium layer. visualize a cylinder the size of a thick caapi vine, now, replace the same space with many, many thin vines, you will see you get far more cambium layer like this. dried caapi vine is weak, use fresh and thin vines and aya will last 12h!! to all the people afraid of paradime shift, i quote luther: it's false to state that a man's inclination are free to choose between either of the two opposites. indeed the inclination is not free, but captive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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