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Is that all you know about the person is his name?

 

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22 hours ago, Halcyon Daze said:

Here's what I think is really going on

 

Australian Scientists Shocked - Shocked! - To Learn Anti-Vaxxers Tend To Believe Other Conspiracies, Too

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/02/australian-scientists-shocked-shocked-to-learn-anti-vaxxers-tend-to-believe-other-conspiracies-too/

 

Spend time talking to someone who considers themselves an anti-vaxxer - or more generously, a vaccine sceptic - and something becomes apparent pretty soon: The conspiracy well usually runs deep. There's no shortage of anti-vaxxers who also believe in other iffy things, such as "natural" cancer treatments and a government-ordered 9/11. A new study, published this week in Health Psychology, reaffirms that obvious connection while providing some insight on why it's so hard to sway anti-vaxxers from demonstrably false beliefs.

 

 

 

IMO 'Conspiracy Theorism' is a powerful addiction whereby the addict is not even able to reach stage one of recovery, the part where they openly admit and accept that they do actually have a problem.

 

Good luck to 'em, the only one who can actually help them is themselves and it's an almighty mountain to conquer indeed.

 

14 hours ago, DiscoStu said:

 

 

 

so i take it you're an anti-vaxxer then HD?

 

Sometimes, as we might tend to observe if we like forums like SAB, it is that our mindset is outside of the normal mainstream Western thought paradigm, accorded by our experiential reality having disproven the worth of that paradigm, and as soon as we are freed, even partially, from the paradigm of a Westerner's mindset, we are both at risk of harbouring falsehood, and blessed with a more open mind more capable of thinking for itself.

 

The issue of vaccination and adults choices not to vaccinate their own offspring, tends to get heated very quickly, because ever parent wants to believe they made the correct choice for their own children.  Now, I could let on that my choice was to avoid having anybody stick a needle into my babies, and I will defend that choice to the hilt, but I believe that in this context, the point is not even slightly related to vaccination, and rather more related to how it is, that we all know about the risks involved in having our minds opened too far.

 

Here is a good example.  An old friend, who is one of those folks who used a lot a lot a lot of psychedelics in youth, but nevertheless fell into the entrapment of the dealers of needle drugs, and was always in one relapse or another in the whole time of my acquaintance with him, up to these days with me booting him out of beneath my house at the weekend, he and I have frequently argued about the legal status of birth certificates. He watched a lot of shit in youtube, about the spurious basis of legislative nation statehood, and concluded for himself, that he might not be to blame for his having fucked himself up taking drugs with another old friend who used to work as a prostitute, and who became a mother specifically because she could earn more money as a prostitute who let her clients blame herself for being a badder mother than she really was, in her own perception that was, (whether or not she was a bad mother depends upon whether she continued earning money as a prostitute who let her clients blame her like that, which she never told me),...and the first old friend had happened to find himself in her company, both traversing a dangerous circumstance of the delusion that illegal drug purchases can be offset by finding a situation of poor parenting, and blaming the victims of that, and he had observed via his drug use, that the actual consequence of their having had sex on hammer with that delusion in his mind, was that his own son (living 1000km away) wound up in juvenile detention. Now the youtube based delusion he acquiesced to, which he imagined had excused him from his imaginative behavioural choice, was that all nation states were always trading upon every registered birth certificate, as though the whole economy trades on babies being born.  I only tolerated him staying sometimes under the house here, because he also had a brain injury, (from being knocked off the handlebars of his brother's push bike age eight, by a car being driven by the maths teacher of their neighbourhood high school, after which experience he could no longer understand maths as well as previously), that prevents him corresponding his behaviour with the consequences. And then he used Datura too much in his teens, as well as cannabis, and a lot of mushrooms, but progressing rapidly to his favoured speed, then heroin, and still tries to use psychedelics to get out from his heroin habit manifesting alternately extreme alcoholism, despite having all the symptoms of hallucinogen persistent perception disorder, as well as social anhedonia, and now in his late forties, is somewhat of a lost cause, (even in my world, in which I seldom give up on anybody).  The point here is that it is possible to open one's mind so far as that one's brains fall out, but usually that had some pre-conditioning in worldly events which were conducive to the lack of brains being as if normal.

 

As far as the storm situation goes.  I choose to avoid contemplating that, because the evidence was not obvious enough to warrant me having an opinion.  But as far as the whole Trump predicament goes, just the past week, and in association with pondering whether starting a QLD APS chapter is a good move, there was a shit load of far out patterns of cause and effect going down, (which aforementioned junkie went too cray cray to stay under my house over), in which it manifested as that, (among other weird and wonderful dreamlike consternations of time), the efforts of Australians to cause the re-election of Whitlam after The Dismissal, were prevented, by another individual working within a government industry we ought not name and shame, who "paid it forward" into Trump's election.  I rather hope that individual will suffer the consequences in his own industry, of heightened internal suspicions.  How my head got involved, was in that after watching the TV show about Whitlam, and seeing for the first time the footage of Jim Cairns and Junie Morosi, I wrote Junie a letter since I met her a few times in Canberra, and let on about how I got told, from a different family of connections with organised crime, about their having set up the connection between the Whitlam government and the dodgy loan broker, at the behest of the CIA, (or so the story got told me).  MKUltra ate its heart out before that connection looped itself in as well.  And I well understood why it is regarded by many indigenous Shaman all over the world, and significantly held aloft by Ngungkari here in Australia, that if we used psychedelics at any time in our past, we need keep our minds out of politics.

 

(adding in via an edit here, that if anybody else finds reasonable reason to suspect their own mind connects, it is all OK since the real culprit, outside of any government employee implicated, was known, as in the relatively anonymous mention of his name mostly edited out in my new post-EGA2017 website https://curaezipirid.net/ )

Edited by curaezipirid
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so much for my intention that I only will use the forum if I am able limit myself to a one liner

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Some very well-put and thought provoking arguments there curaezipirid.

 

I guess that study is not trying to say all antivaxers are crazy etc, but more to do with conspiracy theorists getting into more than one conspiracy. ie if you believe climate change is a conspiracy invented by the chinese then you prolly also believe JFK was carried out by the illuminati and chemtrails are trying to make us all sterile etc etc etc.

 

It just shows that people who are into these conspiracy theories tend to be more about the hype than common sense and god only knows how they separate their facts from pure bullshit. I think once they have made up their mind on something they'll believe anything that supports that position no matter how crazy it actually is.

 

Which reminds me of a Doctor Karl quote that "A scientist should hold his theories so delicately at the very tips of his fingers that he will allow even the slightest breeze of new evidence to change his theory completely". Problem with most conspiracy theorists is they keep disgarding perfectly sound/ legitimate info ( non scientific) and cling tooth and nail (non scientific) to dodgy crap. It's because they have a predetermined outcome (non-scientific) and no matter how much evidence is put to them they'll never adjust their view accordingly (non-scientific) and instead cling to the dodgiest info (non scientific) to prove their point. This whole 'memo' BS is just another example of it.

 

Why do i frame this in scientific terms, well the scientific approach is our best method for sorting the factual-information and theories from all the wrong information and theories out there, science is also the study of what is 'measurable'.

 

At the very core of conspiracy theories is a view that every piece of info and data can no longer be trusted, measured, weighed-up, considered or evaluated, because it's all 'fake'. It's just outright denial, and then they go on to try to prove all their BS info like as though theirs isn't fake FFS. What a pointless waste of time debating them.

 

The conspiracy theorist will gladly undermine/ bypass the scientific procedure for determining fact from fiction in order to cling to his/her pre-determined outcome. They don't even want to know the truth, they just want to remain dumb and happy all day long, just like taking a drugs to face day-to-day life. 

 

I would actually go on to postulate that conspiracy theorists are generally more likely to be drug abusers ( rather than just drug users in a healthy sense i.e people who get smashed for breakfast compared to those who share a joint round the fire on a camping trip).

 

Which leaves some interesting questions for Trumpers.

 

1. Do they/ did they ever believe in other conspiracies like chemtrails or fake moon landings.

 

2. Do they have a problem with drug abuse.

 

Because this is what most (not all) Trumpers are actually dealing with in my honest humble sober opinion. Take it or leave it...

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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This discussion about conspiracy theories in general is a good one. I agree, Halcyon, that where there's one conspiracy theory, there're often more. I also think conspiracy theories are a legitimate way of questioning received narratives, particularly in an era in which we're aware that so much of the information we receive is deeply biased, in which media outlets are driven by political and economic motives (*cough* Murdoch), and our government outright tells us there are plenty of things going on behind the scenes that we don't need to know (like Johnny Howard giving serious consideration to rescinding the right to remain silent in "terrorism" investigations).

 

I'll say from the outset that I'm into some conspiracy theories. I'm interested in conspiracy theories that were at one point were dismissed by many as paranoid or crazy, but turned out to be true. At one point the idea that national agencies and corporations could tap and later trace phones was a conspiracy theory, now metadata collection is enshrined in policy and "location services" are a part of our lifestyles. Later, the idea that electronic communications were being spied on was neurotic. Now there's a wikipedia page on Five Eyes, and Assange is holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy. Before the Panama and Paradise Papers the notion that global elites -including public servants who manage our public funds- were gaming the taxation systems they enforce on the rest of us was rubbish. A little earlier, the US's CIA couldn't possibly have had anything to do with running and distributing drugs in its own backyard, and even more absurd was the possibility that these actions could be connected to their (successful) efforts to control elements of South American politics. Yet for all the COINTELPROs and MKULTRAs, Dreyfus Affairs and Vatican coverups, if you use a popular search engine to have a read up on conspiracy theories you'll get unsubstantiated dreck about reptilians and fluoride, and a number of "authoritative" voices opining that the people who question received narratives/believe conspiracies do so because they are "losers."

 

I think there's more to it. Not only do we have good reason to apply critical thinking to the disconnect between talk and action on the part of global actors like governments and corporations, and question the glaring holes in the democratic process, we have a historical record of conspiracies that transitioned from utter madness to vindicated by overwhelming evidence. My opinion is that conspiracy theories come about both as a way of dealing with unknowns and complexity, and a result of critical thinking about evident contradictions. We inherently want to explain things and understand them, it's in our nature. In a world of highly specialised and refined technologies that most of us can't possibly understand across the board in detail, and of often cloaked political and economic processes, it's frustrating to be cut off from explanations for invisible or opaque forces that exert an influence over our lives. Given humanity's history of corruption it's good to question authorities, and I agree with Halcyon that we should use the right tool for the job when it comes to doing so. If it's a question about vaccines, look at the science. If it's a question about politics, use critical thinking and primary sources when they're available.  Conspiratorial thinking can be evidence based, and make use of proven explanatory systems. Or it can be extrapolated from your already-formed, subjective views about something. I think the first one is more useful.

 

I think it's a good thing that Thunder and others are questioning the narratives, and I think it's good that others are questioning the questioners. 

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Great post though some questioners don't dare to stray from their spoon-fed well of information and question said information, there is a tendency to have blind belief especially those from the conspiracy camp disregarding the thousands of times the theorist got it wrong and only focusing on the very small narrow portion of what turned out to be correct. 

 

Question everything no matter how close to your heart the belief/information is.

 

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@hashslingr I defo agree, and for the others top marks for the critical thought. My 5c is you can lead a horse to water...

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We need to be critical thinkers about the set and setting of our own lives, and lifestyles, to be more capable of the kind of reflective thinking by which we can observe ourselves in examples of ourselves having fallen into conspiracy thinking.

 

So, for example, my first full time job was in Community Radio down in Canberra, at 2XX, (learning to sound engineer where Midnight Oil recorded their first too-trashy-to-sell-album), and where I got paid to panel op for all sorts of unusual community voices. It lead me in a certain direction, by which I tend to err on the side of believing in conspiracy theories.  And for the good reason that when friends in those years pointed out cars following them, and said "ASIO", it wound up being evidence in court that they were correct, because one woman in our social network was framed by ASIO for the fire bombing of South African diplomats cars, in the 1980s, and in court the ASIO case was proven to be a frame. 

 

Left wing idealists and far out hippy health freak concepts were the order of the day in the social network of my youth.  And now, how it is most often challenging for me, is in that I have had to re-learn to think better of folks who harbour more conservative opinions.

 

Overall, I think it is relevant that we are all mindful of the fact, that any person can be very righteously correct about one matter, and in total self denial about their ignorance in another matter.  And often when another person was harbouring a lot of self denial, we don't have the wisdom to understand if their self denial was important for them somehow in a way we can't relate with.  Arguing and making discourse is a fine art perhaps, at least when successful.  It is about choosing which single smaller points embedded in any discourse, can change slightly in the minds of a few, and that slight change have a far reaching impact.

 

Subjects like vaccination are extremely foolhardy to get into debating, and in most social contexts, so are psychedelics still in Australia today.  Maybe Trump might be as well, since his individual name attracts too much attention, but the concept of faked news, or disinformation campaigns online, is a good one to discuss for challenging each individual to re-think how we evaluate what is truth.

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Some great posts coming outa this thread. 

 

i agree with the notion of question everything, but keep in mind you should never be 100% certain about something until it's regarded as a LAW OF NATURE LOL.

 

Gravity was a theory once, now it's considered a LAW. Evolution is still considered a Theory.

 

Trump, well he's just blowin' in the wind.

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Deference to authority, anyway established scientific theories are still just highly-regarded theories, subject to modification/discredit.

 

So anyway there are 13000 sealed indictments.  This thread is not really about trump its about a whispered judicial takedown of enormous scale.  If and when there is promising news that this is actually occurring I will post updates.

 

My next thread will coincide with the Australian federal election and I will outline how filthy the ALP are, also the greens are communists masquerading as environmentalists.  Then again it sounds like a lot of effort.

Edited by ThunderIdeal

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Yet the saled indictments will be just like the memo not what it is being portrayed as. 

 

 

 

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conspiracy theories like hillary clinton didn't lose because she's a corrupt establishment piece of shit The Truth™ is it's a vast conspiracy where russian AI twitter bots programmed donald trump to steal the election through russian hacking facebook.

 

the fact none of you have the self awareness to view your own nonsense speaks volumes

lL4kHLv.png

Edited by DiscoStu

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What specific nonsense are you referring to?

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dont be cute. you know exactly what  i'm referrinf to.

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No I don't actually. That's why I asked you to expand on that.

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Is there a good link that summarises the qanon posts and their ‘extracted meanings’. I’m not up on it enough to read the qanon posts and make any sense of it. I just worked out what a POTUS was lol , and to think I’ve been calling it poo all these years. 

 

Seriously though, any good links?

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Maybe.  Jerome corsi seems to be the best.  

 

I dont follow Q too much since nothing he says is verifiable unless its in the news, in which case its in the news.

 

I posted a link earlier from the conservative tree house i think.  Its not about Q.  I dont think Q is the sane place to start.  Catch up on american news first.

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17 hours ago, Halcyon Daze said:

Trump, well he's just blowin' in the wind.

 

Actually I am quite certain Trump will prove himself to be just a Challachaqui (as in the kind of spirit person described in Stephen Beyer's "Singing To The Plants", who was associated with the disappearances of children, aka the Junjari and the Quinkin in Australian indigenous folklore, as in the picture book by Percy Treatise "Quinkin Mountain" based on Central North QLD rock art).

 

But then again Hilary Clinton was no doubt one of those dudes also.

 

16 hours ago, ThunderIdeal said:

My next thread will coincide with the Australian federal election and I will outline how filthy the ALP are, also the greens are communists masquerading as environmentalists.  Then again it sounds like a lot of effort.

 

And sadly Bill Shorten.

 

Politics were all riddled with such beings manifestations of their attention attracting antics to the detriment of all of our lives.

 

The only good aspect of understanding somebody was a Challachaqui, was that thereby, we know they be a mere figment of our own collective imaginations, and if only we could all ignore them, they are able to simply evaporate, (eg as in other famous examples like Penn and Teller).

 

(WARNING: such beings will notably be visible for eating their own face, if only we let them by ignoring, and ourselves cast no blame, since they thrived upon our finding them at fault in small minor matters in which they reflect accurate facts of ourselves which we forgot in their presence)

Edited by curaezipirid
addition of warning
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10 hours ago, DiscoStu said:

dont be cute. you know exactly what  i'm referrinf to.

 

 

I keep getting the impression that just because someone somewhere said something against Trump, Disco thinks it means that everyone who is anti-trump said it.

 

If you don't like what someone said then your beef is with THAT particular person, not everyone else with a differing opinion.

 

From what I remember about that signboard, some Trumpers were creating a huge stir claiming that the election was rigged because they were doing so bad in the polls. There's nothing false about that. Trump's numbers really did slump after those classy pussy-grab comments that came out.

 

I might be way off here but it seems like a perfectly legitimate thing to write on a poster under the circumstances. I mean there was sooooo much BS going on about some big election rigging conspiracy from the Trump side.

 

Even Trump himself said that the election is rigged unless he wins, -Because then it couldn't possibly be rigged :wacko:. It shouldn't need explaining what a brainless comment that was, pretty standard kinda comment for Trump though.

 

It turns out there was no election rigging going on after all. Just a whole lotta fake news going on from Trump and the Russians. LOL Even my mum got fake news'd, She's still convinced that Hillary is secretly gay and was trying to abduct children. Seriously WTF? Who in their right mind would actually believe that shyt? Even when we all know it came out of Russia. Anyway my poor old mum's in an institution now anyway, so there you go.

 

That poster just reminds me of the full-retard reason someone ever felt the need to even write such a thing on a poster. To EDUCATE the Trump followers. Trump's ridiculous comments only cemented it into the history books for all time.

 

He's a professional conman/ pied-piper, and half the voters got totally OWNED by this shyster. Only gotta look at the stockmarket to see where a mountain of bullshit will get you in the end.

 

He's already gone bankrupt so many times, his next gamble is the US economy.

 

Edited by Halcyon Daze

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Its too tedious to respond to, but your mum was right.  The clinton foundation was caught stealing haitian children but helped the abductor get her charges downgraded.  Hillary probably is gay but who gives a fuck.  the polls may or may not have been rigged (they were rigged) but they sure as hell werent accurate.  Remember how smug you were going into the election?  stu's point that seems to have been lost was that after trump won suddenly it was not a fair election and  something something (vague reasons) the russians did it, which you seem to actually believe.  Actually i will use stu's wording "is it's a vast conspiracy where russian AI twitter bots programmed donald trump to steal the election through russian hacking facebook."  so you see you are the conspiracy theorist!  Its just that yoir conspiracy theories were peddled in the mainstream media.

 

 

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Conspiracy theories are interesting. I mean you can’t just make that shit up...can you? Lol. I mean... I find their like religions - no religion is the truth but there is truth in them all. Perhaps the same applies. Also apparently it was a conspiracy theory once that cigarettes caused cancer. 

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Conspiracy theories often turn into conspiracy fact.  Hows this one.  Cia via operation mockingbird popularised the term as a way to immediately villify/discredit/humiliate anybody spreading a narrative that endangers the power structure.  This is going back to kennedy's assassination.

 

Im not interested in being fed as livestock receives feed, looking up at its farmer with a vague sense of contempt but mainly overwhelming gratitude and confusion and certainly no fucking idea what is coming.  no i say.  I'd rather be taken for an idiot than bite into a pre-packaged explanation.

 

To that end this thread is here for a specific developing story which may or may not be 95% crap. Just realised i roped myself into discussing old news for the nth time.  this isnt the right thread.  First non Jewish fed chairman in 40 years wtf

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So, the Russians weren't even involved at all then? Is that what you mean? I didn't even think that was a point of contention.

 

A lot of Trump's campaign has actually admitted to having various levels of contact with the Russians you know, even his own son in law.

 

Jeez the way Trump talks about Russia you'd think Putin was his Boyfriend LOL

 

Oh well, whatever...

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42 minutes ago, ThunderIdeal said:

Im not interested in being fed as livestock receives feed, looking up at its farmer with a vague sense of contempt but mainly overwhelming gratitude and confusion and certainly no fucking idea what is coming.  no i say.  I'd rather be taken for an idiot than bite into a pre-packaged explanation.

 

100% Agree

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