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DualWieldRake

'Clone' names

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Ok, so

1 hour ago, Inyan said:

 

@Halcyon DazeHow do we know one of our cuttings is being relabeled and sold under a different name without DNA testing? Sure, we might suspect as the two look identical... but can we ever be certain? 

 

 Ok so my response to this specifically is that we don't and can't know.  

 

But remember a couple things here.

 

 A: We are not talking about official registration of names with the Royal Horticultural Society, I don't think they even do cacti because the species arent clearly enough defined yet. Much work remains to be done with cacti.

 

 

B: Don't even assume plants to be accurately or truthfully labeled anyway. If you want to be more sure about  a plant's origins then you must do the hard yards. Research,  deal with trusted members, look up whatever patentage info you can get, look up plenty of close pics of spination etc, seek other people's opinions, be truthful to yourself about unknowns. Check out what has already been documented about different clones on the more trusted sites like this one (not face book).

 

 

Separating fact from fiction will always be no less than a grand scientific endeavor no matter what you're dealing with. Info needs to be evidence based, measurable and open to any possibility without bias. 100% certainty is actually quite a rare thing in science.

 

 

So don't worry too much about what dodgy people might do, just use your brain so you don't get caught up in a con.

 

I'm sure there's plenty of mis-labeled plants around. No big deal really. It's only just information after all.

 

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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a registry  is a good idea. We kinda already have one started here in the cacti section of the corroboree.

 

There's also the trade reps section. 

Edited by Halcyon Daze

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If selling/trading a batch of seedlings from the one cross, it should be sold as the cross, example .   SS02 X SS01 . If there is a stand out in the seedlings you like, you should grow it out clone it to see if it stays true and then name it.  

 

Not every seedling that you grow or buy/trade needs a name.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, smithy said:

If selling/trading a batch of seedlings from the one cross, it should be sold as the cross, example .   SS02 X SS01 . If there is a stand out in the seedlings you like, you should grow it out clone it to see if it stays true and then name it.  

 

Not every seedling that you grow or buy/trade needs a name.  

 

 

Not every seedling needs a name, but does every seedling deserve a name if it is being sold? If I buy a cross SS02 x SS01 and someone else has made that same cross and I get two cacti fro that cross from two different breeders I can then breed them together and make an F2. If however, I receive SS02 x SS01 from two different breeders and it is the same clone... I can not make an F2 cross. I would have essentially bought two identical clones that if they had of been properly identified as being the same I would not have consciously done. Perhaps seedlings should not be sold if they are not deserving of a name? Those seedlings that are not sufficiently different could simply be culled so as not to muddy up the waters with more look alike specimens?

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5 hours ago, Inyan said:

Not every seedling needs a name, but does every seedling deserve a name if it is being sold? If I buy a cross SS02 x SS01 and someone else has made that same cross and I get two cacti fro that cross from two different breeders I can then breed them together and make an F2. If however, I receive SS02 x SS01 from two different breeders and it is the same clone... I can not make an F2 cross. I would have essentially bought two identical clones that if they had of been properly identified as being the same I would not have consciously done. Perhaps seedlings should not be sold if they are not deserving of a name? Those seedlings that are not sufficiently different could simply be culled so as not to muddy up the waters with more look alike specimens?

 

 

    No one in there right trichocereus mind would cull a cactus. LOL. 

 

I know were you are coming dude. But australian tricho collectors are crazy...  :P    

Edited by smithy
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Duuuuuude...

 

Tricho lives matter!

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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5 hours ago, smithy said:

 

 

    No one in there right trichocereus mind would cull a cactus. LOL. 

 

I know were you are coming dude. But australian tricho collectors are crazy...  :P    

No one ever accused me of being in my right mind. But seriously....make room for improvements and get rid of the junk. If you work with the best you will create better. Work with junk and you will more than likely create more junk.

1 hour ago, Halcyon Daze said:

Duuuuuude...

 

Tricho lives mater!

I laughed long and hard on this one.

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26 minutes ago, Inyan said:

No one ever accused me of being in my right mind. But seriously....make room for improvements and get rid of the junk. If you work with the best you will create better. Work with junk and you will more than likely create more junk.

I laughed long and hard on this one.

I have no room for endless counts of hybrids.  But I do like a good clone name, lol.. Jokes aside I only collect the ones I find attractive and with outstanding features.    My opinion is the clone names are out of control but we have some of the best trichocereus breeders in the world. newish collectors are having a field day with endless hybrid seeds/plants ,so the names will just keep rolling in..:wink:    

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3 hours ago, smithy said:

I have no room for endless counts of hybrids.  But I do like a good clone name, lol.. Jokes aside I only collect the ones I find attractive and with outstanding features.    My opinion is the clone names are out of control but we have some of the best trichocereus breeders in the world. newish collectors are having a field day with endless hybrid seeds/plants ,so the names will just keep rolling in..:wink:    

Sadly none of us have room for endless hybrids and we must all choose those that we personally like in the end. Some will choose variegated specimens, others crested specimens...still others will only want to keep the bluest of the blue specimens and so on and so forth. The truth is that one could have an entire collection of variegated hybrid specimens all genetically distinct from one another if one wished in very little time. So go after what amuses you. It is interesting though as to what one might consider noteworthy another might find trash and worthy of culling. Its one reason I'm not overly concerned with the names as those that rise to the top will continue to be propagated and sold by others and those that don't won't. However those that are unscrupulous and sell a seedling that looks like a named clone of note... now that might upset me... but then what can a person do? Go to trusted sources for said cutting is perhaps the only thing one can do in such an instance as that, but many might keep such a misnamed specimen and never know it and then in return sell of bits and pieces of that improperly named clone and so the story goes....

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one of my trichocereus just whispered in my ear to say the RHS can go fk themselves .. I think it was one I gave a name to because it didn't have a name previously that was known .. if one was found then it would have to take precedence.. other than that , it's easier to remember them with names and I too plus the idea of using naming after source growers as close to the root of it's history as possible especially if particularly important and a cooler name hasn't found it's way into being thunken fast enough, ....

if the original clone name or location data can't be known , then as close as possible is the best one could afford.

and also a nickname attached can make for endearment which surely shouldn't be discouraged?

 

some examples :

a bruce is a fkn ace cactus and i might prefer one of them over the same species of an un-named clone ...

just like a lumberjackus ... etc ..

 

super pedro deserves that name I reckon too ... etc ..

 

the main thing is not to lie and say a clone is something you already know it isn't I guess?

 

There is a lot more integrity in this foreign/international cactus community than I saw pretty much everywhere else I ever looked.

might be worth adding that you named the clone, if you did, when talking about it and perhaps why?

 

e.g. a seed grown bridgesii of about 20 siblings growing much much faster than all the others getting named "shuttle" by me.

there will be no precedence over that name for sure. ..

 

And so it has a name to differentiate it from the others due to it's specific traits with no added artificial flavorings. .. job done. ..

 

maybe it might be of use one day for breeding speed of growth traits into something?

maybe there's faster already or yet to be grown?

 

btw that Arg' terscheckii arrived yesterday and it's seed grown so a unique clone genetically and could be named by you if you so wished to.

 

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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I received an unlabeled bonus seedling as a gift from someone a couple years ago.  I've totally forgotten who sent it.

 

It's growing super fast and strong and I like it a lot. I made a tag and wrote 'Unlabelled gift'. I want to start cloning it and breeding with it one day so I am trying to think up an appropriate name so I can keep track of all the separate cuttings I take. 

 

One day I''ll plant all the cuttings together in a patch of their own so they can develop intp a big specimen plant.

 

I'd like to cross it with my fastest growing cactus which is known as 'Crazy Spine'.  The offspring should be quite vigorous and attractive.

 

What do other people call their unknown clones? Even if it's just a pachanoi for example, it may have a bit of something else in it that they are unaware of.

 

Maybe we need to start adding a history paper when trading cacti. Like they do with pedigree animals. 

 

This way all known info can be passed on. Plant tags are too small for all the info.

 

Or perhaps we need to record the story behind each cactus along with the registry. 

 

I guess that's why people formally 'introduce' exciting new clones.

 

None of this can stop people from making up lies though, anyone could make up a fake parentage story, or just assumptions in general.

 

Member/ vendor trust and integrity is paramount IMO and that's where post count and trading rep is so important.

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dnno what it is but when ya see a cactus and kinda get a feel for it in a way sometimes a really apt name just springs into consciousness existence as if outta nowhere and the more of a see/feel , the more apt as far as it seems to go...

 

sometimes it's very hard to get this particular function to work so I'm not too sure what powers it ?

 

other times there are many random cool combinations or singular words that sound like cool names anyway and often seem like they could possibly attract more interest to a particular plant perceived in such a manner as the beholder undertaketh, .. :) ..whether aware or not of any onlooker's thoughts on the matter .. or perceptions of such..

 

like for example already existing names for things that aren't cacti ... like as far as I perceive and I may be wrong but

the Sharxx .. that's a fkn cool name even before being assigned to a cactus or more and blue is a sexy word as it is too when combined with sharks in the mental alchemy of the optical recipient to such utter nonesense and ramblings as you guys must put up from me as the penny of realization droppeth into my little abyss n er  suddenly realize what i just typed :innocent_n:

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sorry I hopped before finishing dint I ..

 

so if you get stumped and the name calling doesn't come whenceforth at will , usually the place it came from can help toward a temporary or permanant remedy but preferably the latter so as to minimize confusion which sometimes requires that kinda thoughtzone of " ok I got one shot and.." WHACK! ,.,, you try hit the ball , sometimes it misses I~ guess?

So like I got a peruvianus and just stuck it's best name that I could find for the grower as the name of the clone in my labellings.. , done it with a few pachanoi ralph which was probably a mistake because theres so many

but then i see the J1 and 2 and 3 and such which makes it an easier internal battle to deal with as far as ethics and morals of the assignment of a good name that might do the plant a good turn.

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had 2 pachs from abbey brook and temptation lead me to want to name one abbey and one brook after the grower said they didnt have clone names and he had grown them since the dawn of time (oldest cactus shop over here)

 

but then i thought what if they get a 3rd? or even the possibility of such cuz ya knoe, they might think , "no its fine these 2 are enough" ... ? but say they did... the third would be what ?

so 1 abbey

2 brook

3 ,., (oh fk)

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It's a real connundrum. 

 

Perhaps we need to establish a 'naming code'. Ie some guidelines like: 

 

**Nothing to elude to, or be suggestive of potency etc.

 

**People's names and user names are ok

 

** dicks are ok but not dildos???

I'm lost, any ideas? 

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Under the code 'Butt plug 4000' would be banned but 'Ass Buster 4000' would be acceptable :P

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You can fetch a higher price by adding 4000 to the end of anything. 

 

For example 'PC 4000' is an awesome clone that people would pay hundreds for.

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it sure is a belly laff/giggle to imagine erm ... erm ... pests!!! [yes of course pests it is, honest sir] ;) bugs maybe snails? or someone like them chowing down or maybe guzzling on or just plain eating: a fat csd

 

or riding jim's spesh all night

 

or maybe "taking" a deep colossing

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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what if you labelled one with just the number for a name = ~Trichocereus "4000" or

~"5000"

and on that note/ subject, isn't there a macrogonus rs 4000 knocking around if my memory serves correctly?

 

 

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Here's a clone I have named and the story behind it.

I rescued some neglected seedlings from a guy a few years ago, this plant was one of them. It's a pretty typical Ecuadorian pachanoi, but when I got it, it was the saddest little thing, so badly corked and mite damaged it didn't look like it would survive. Someone said it looked mummified and it seemed pretty apt.

I've nursed it back to health and it's one of my favourite plants. I call it "Pharaoh".

IMAG1131_1.thumb.jpg.f2088ed76302f553e6bb5dc885dffe63.jpg

You can still see how scarred the base is in this picture.

IMAG1132_1.thumb.jpg.6987563649d7f11b5a247df10c9f4b65.jpg

IMAG1131_1.thumb.jpg.f2088ed76302f553e6bb5dc885dffe63.jpg

IMAG1132_1.thumb.jpg.6987563649d7f11b5a247df10c9f4b65.jpg

IMAG1131_1.thumb.jpg.f2088ed76302f553e6bb5dc885dffe63.jpg

IMAG1132_1.thumb.jpg.6987563649d7f11b5a247df10c9f4b65.jpg

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