Pain relief plants

[Dicko]

Hi all, I hope this is an appropirate place to post this question.

I have had ongoing shoulder pain for quite some time now coming up to 2 years. Something in my shoulder decided it wasnt going to take the strain of drawing my compound bow, and now its going to cost me $300 just to get it looked at (scan) and then theres the treatment and I simply cant afford either  . Im wondering if theres any plants I can grow or use that will help with the constant ache, and itch/pins needles - at times sensation. 

Any help is appreciated as always

Thanks

[Tom Bombadil]

Incarvillea sinensis is an analgesic and stronger than morphine.

[Dicko]

Looking into it, thanks!

[waterboy 2.0]

Thats what some research has suggested with Incarvillea, but the realities may be different.

 

There are a couple of threads on it here:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33345-incarvillateine-stronger-analgesic-than-morphine/#comment-386053

 

EDIT - a bit in this one too

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?/topic/42712-grow-diary-incarvillea-sinensis/&

Edited July 27, 2017 by waterboy 2.0

[Dicko]

Does anyone in Australia have some seed they would want to part with? Id rather not try to get them from overseas

[Sallubrious]

I'd be keen for some seed too. The pain I've been in for the last few weeks has been pure hell.

[saylor twift]

Hey muns

 

i found a post on SAB the other day about Black seed oil, i bought a bottle of hab shifa and have to say it works pretty good for potentiating opiates if u have them...apparently it can work on its own but havnt tried it.

kratom also worked wonders on my pain levels without giving me any brain fog, it actually gave me energy

this isnt a plant but u can get em from some chemists and it helps with nerve pain they are called a TENS machine, https://patient.info/health/tens-machines-leaflet

also da erb helps if u eat it.. 

 

make this your friend, http://www.rebelsport.com.au/Product/PTP-Soft-Massage-Therapy-Roller/418482

 

i hope you get some relief.. nerve pain is the pits

[oncewhywechange]

On 27/07/2017 at 0:54 PM, Tom Bombadil said:

Incarvillea sinensis is an analgesic and stronger than morphine.

So not true, Sorry. 

[Anodyne]

^^^

Well, it was true for those ten mice in that study. But there is a reason that commercial pharmaceuticals need to be tested on humans as well - and this is it. From scattered reports coming in from the few people who have tried it, it sounds more sedative than opioid/analgesic. However it might work in this case where mild analgesia & muscle relaxation are desirable - only one way to find out. It wouldn't be top of my list of things to try though.

 

I second all of saylor twift's ideas - and Lyrica could also be worth a shot if the nerve problems are bad enough (or maybe its precursor gabapentin instead, if money is very tight) - sorry I don't know of any plants that do the same job.

 

Oil of Wintergreen is great for sprained muscles & inflammation - it is kind of a topical version of aspirin (i.e. anti-inflammatory) & is an active ingredient in many "tiger-balm" type products & liniments. You can buy at the chemist or Chinese herbalist. Mix with other oils if you like or just rub it straight onto sore muscles & aching joints for immediate relief.

[Sallubrious]

20 hours ago, saylor twift said:

Hey muns

 

i found a post on SAB the other day about Black seed oil, i bought a bottle of hab shifa and have to say it works pretty good for potentiating opiates if u have them...apparently it can work on its own but havnt tried it.

kratom also worked wonders on my pain levels without giving me any brain fog, it actually gave me energy

this isnt a plant but u can get em from some chemists and it helps with nerve pain they are called a TENS machine, https://patient.info/health/tens-machines-leaflet

also da erb helps if u eat it.. 

 

make this your friend, http://www.rebelsport.com.au/Product/PTP-Soft-Massage-Therapy-Roller/418482

 

i hope you get some relief.. nerve pain is the pits

 

Was that the Aussie Kratom or an imported indo Kratom like a red vein or something similar ?

 

I've eaten bucket loads of the Aussie stuff and it does nothing for my pain & does nothing else desirable either. No energising effects and no buzz that couldn't be put down to self suggestion or wishful thinking either.

 

I've never tried an extract but the fresh leaf just doesn't work for me.

[Sallubrious]

17 hours ago, Anodyne said:

Oil of Wintergreen is great for sprained muscles & inflammation - it is kind of a topical version of aspirin (i.e. anti-inflammatory) & is an active ingredient in many "tiger-balm" type products & liniments. You can buy at the chemist or Chinese herbalist. Mix with other oils if you like or just rub it straight onto sore muscles & aching joints for immediate relief.

 

I think the wintergreen oil is used in the oil based liniments a lot but the tiger balms type salves are more camphor and peppermint/menthol based. A bit of clove oil can be helpful in those types of oil based liniments too. Wintergreen oil has a long history of use in TCM and western liniments & IME experience it definitely works for soft tissue injuries..

 

Some chemists will tell you that heating balms do nothing for deep tissues and nerves etc but just the act of rubbing on them stimulates blood flow and increased blood flow is good for all types of injury where there is stasis and reduced movement.

 

You could also try a dit da jao which is a Chinese liniment made by soaking herbs and sometimes animal or mineral products in wine or vodka. It's in some ways part of the win chun tradition - healing and inflicting injury are two sides of the same coin or yin and yang in some respects. You can get the herb mix from ebay, buy it pre-made or just mix up your own. I make my own & I'm smothered in it myself right now, it would have been totally fucked without that.

 

I haven't tried this guys stuff because I make own but he's one of the only Ausse sellers I've seen making it to traditional formulas. He has several different blends for sale on ebay

25 herb mix

15 herb mix

26 herb mix

 

It's worth reading his ads just to see which herbs are used, there's a few common ones that are used in most blends and they all have good anti inflammatory properties.

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Sallubrious

[saylor twift]

54 minutes ago, Sallubrious said:

You could also try a dit da jao which is a Chinese liniment

 

yeah! dit da jao is rad if you can get a good 1, or yeah make it yourself... 

 

im unsure of the source of the kratom as it was gifted but i can try and find out for you Sal? i was super surprised at what i got out of it, i would liken it to the pain relief in the range of 5-10mg of oxy lasting for a few hours.. not that 10mg oxy gives a massive amount of relief for me but if my pain can be sorted depending on how i am on the day by taking kratom rather than pharms id rather do that, it feels much better mentally and physically

 

lol, anothing thing depending on how bad your pain levels are.. i know it doesnt last long but it can get u out of a pickle if ur nerve is pinching or your getting nauseas from the nerve pain... suck on some nitrous..laying down of course

[naja naja]

I'm guessing you mean legal plants. Cause poppies and weed are the first to spring to mind. 

[Dicko]

Hey ive missed a few replies here, thanks fellas :D

Yeah legal would be preferred, I smoked weed heavily some years ago and it was quite an effort to stop... ie insomnia and sweating buckets and being an asssshole to be around lol. 

Ive tried to sprout some poppy seeds but I missed the boat I think, the weather is a bit warm now. Plus thats probably going to be problematic in the longrun also.

 

I ended up finding a place that would bulk bill so I could get the scan done on my shoulder and I got steroid shots for it. They worked for a while but now its acting up again. Funny how you commented right at this point 

 

I got some akuamma seeds to try and they do pretty well but are expensive and taste like 100x ass extract lol. Might get some more, not sure yet  

 

Cheers for the replies :D 

[Sallubrious]

What did the scans show @Dicko ?

 

Were there any rotator cuff tears of any damage to the humeral head or the capsule ?

 

I was veteran of over 100 shoulder dislocations before I bit the bullet and got it reconstructed. I had a damaged capsule and the humeral head was chipped so I had chunks of bone floating around in the joint. The reconstruction didn't help with the pain at all and actually made it worse, it didn't stop it dislocating either.

 

I tried everything the doctors and physio's recommended and nothing really helped much. Then I stumbled across Indian clubs and found out they were good for shoulder rehab.They strengthen the muscles around the joint and stretch the scar tissue around the capsule which frees it up and greatly reduces the pain. Since picking them up I haven't looked back, they worked wonders for me. Now I can do HSPU's without any pain at all.

 

Pat Miletich was a UFC  fighter around 2000, he destroyed his shoulder in the ring through multiple injuries. He found medication and physio wasn't helping him much either, so he started with Indian clubs and made a full recovery. He's helped countless others with shoulder issues just by putting a set of light Indian clubs in their hands and showing them the basics.

 

Taken from http://www.jumpusa.com/indian_clubs.html

Quote

"With over 40 professional fights I’ve had to deal with a number of injuries including a partial rotator cuff tear, a jammed shoulder and cartilage damage.  I went through extensive rehabilitation with limited success.  I was introduced to Indian Clubs a little over 2 years ago and I can tell you since using the clubs on a regular basis, “my shoulder now feels solid and 100%”.  Indian Club Exercise are now a necessary part of Miletich Fighting Systems training.  Not only for me, but all our fighters."

 

 

This video got me hooked & after I got my clubs and started using them regularly my shoulders just got better.

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Sallubrious

[Dicko]

The scans didnt show a great deal apparently, the doc reckons its an inflamed bursa and tendon. But that shouldnt be causing the nerve tingle/itchy/pins and needles, the doc said we will treat the first problem and see if it fixes the rest.

The pain and inflamation went away for a while after the shots but the nerve issue remained. The doc said to give it more time.

 

I think something might have been missed, the scan seemed to be very quick and halfassed..

 

Might have to check out those clubs... throw a few glowsticks on them, head down the beach at night with some doof music ;) heheheheh

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Dicko

[Sallubrious]

Did your doc tell you to avoid the bow until your shoulder settles down ?,

 

I'd lay off the bow myself it were me.

 

If it was a C/T scan then they are super quick these days, they take less than a third of time to do the same job as the did ten or 15 years ago. The real work goes on behind the scenes when the radiologist interprets the results out in a back room somewhere.

 

If you had an MRI, they are notorious for missing micro tears in soft tissue and most docs don't even know that's the case. If you have micro tears in the supporting tissue then there will be laxity in the joint which will basically re-injure it every time you load the joint.

 

The Indian clubs will gently stretch and exercise the muscles and tendons and tighten the joint back up.

 

Platelet rich plasma (PRP) & Prolotherapy is being used to treat conditions like yours with good results.  They trigger an inflammatory response which initiates healing. In some ways it's like a reset and gives your body a second chance to heal properly. I've done it myself with good results.

http://www.drberghamer.com/prp/

http://prolotherapy.com/

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Sallubrious

[Dicko]

Yeah I havnt used the bow in over a year much to my dissapointment

The scan was just an ultrasound so not surprised if something was missed. 

After it was feeling better for a while, I started being less careful (not intentionally) and what started it off again was my son had dropped a toy in the back seat of the car onto the floor. I reached behind me to pick it up from the passenger seat and tweaked it and it just seems to be getting more and more irritated.

 

Ill check out those links, thanks man :D 

- sounds pretty cool, id have to look into it and see what that sort of treatment would cost.

By saying 'ive done it myself with good results' I assume you mean you have had the treatment and not centrifuged your own blood and injected it yourself... lol i feel silly even asking but hey... stranger things happen right?

Edited December 13, 2017 by Dicko

[Sallubrious]

3 hours ago, Dicko said:

By saying 'ive done it myself with good results' I assume you mean you have had the treatment and not centrifuged your own blood and injected it yourself... lol i feel silly even asking but hey... stranger things happen right?

 

Yeah I did it myself at home. I had all the sterile gear from working with fungi so it wasn't a great leap from that to sterile blood work.

 

There's a few ways to do it, one is just to spin your blood in a centrifuge ( I used a wood lathe for a centrifuge) and collect the lower fraction of plasma which is rich in platelets and growth factors, the other reduces the fraction even further to a buffy coat and then that's injected into the site of the injury. I didn't go all the way to a buffy coat and just used the plasma fraction.. It worked quite well on a tennis elbow problem I'd had for years.

 

I've also done my own stem cell treatments a few times with good results. Stem cell isolation is a lot more complex, so I won't elaborate too much here. I could write a 20 page essay on that.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Sallubrious

[Dicko]

Well ill be fooked lol... thats mad hahah. My luck though id give myself blood poisoning lol.

 

[Matt1208]

6 hours ago, Sallubrious said:

I've also done my own stem cell treatments a few times with good results. Stem cell isolation is a lot more complex, so I won't elaborate too much here. I could write a 20 page essay on that.

 

id be pretty keen on reading that, i dont trust nurses/doctors sticking me with needles let alone myself 

[Smiling]

I have become very interested in pain killing plants in the last 2 years after being hit by a car and suffering chronic back pain and sciatica as a result.

A really interesting way to find pain killing (specifically opioid) plants is to use the search terms "reversed by naloxone extract" in google scholar.  The "reversed by naloxone" gives an indication that its an opioid and the "extract" brings up  heaps of plants.  Once you find a plant that has its pain killing effect reversed by naloxone you google "Species name diarrhea".  If it has its pain killing effect reversed by naloxone and has traditional use as an antidiarrheal agent there's a chance that the plants pain killing effect comes from hitting an opioid receptor.

Here's some plants I've been looking at today.

Melastoma malabathricum   http://cyber.sci-hub.tw/MTAuMTAxNi9qLmZpdG90ZS4yMDA0LjA3LjAwMg==/10.1016%40j.fitote.2004.07.002.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2846479/
Acacia modesta (pain relief through multiple mechanisms) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10787-010-0038-4 https://www.ajol.info/index.php/tjpr/article/view/161863
Ficus deltoidea http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0367326X08001603  Has traditional use as antidiarrheal agent

Capparis ovata http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/13880201003629323 (couldnt find anything about diarrhea)

Hyptis suaveolens http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0367326X07000779  wiki says that its antidiarrheal

Persicaria hydropiper  https://bmccomplementalternmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-015-0558-y  This stuff is a weed that is pretty common
 Danae racemosa https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02977322?LI=true fg
Muntingia calabura https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/98366 g

Annona vepretorum https://bmccomplementalternmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-015-0716-2 wdg

Achyranthes aspera   https://bmccomplementalternmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-015-0716-2

Acmella uliginosa http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874110006719 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Smiling
clarification

[Smiling]

If anyone has seeds or plants of painkilling plants I'm very interested in them!  Happy to pay cash or trade

[DeadStar]

The only thing that really works for my nerve pain is lyrica. You could try weed or poppys, but some prescribed pharmaceuticals and a good physiotherapist approved exercise routine could do you wonders.

 

@Sallubrious you are a such a wealth of knowledge. Old school Mma, medical procedures, plants and the list goes on.

[Smiling]

21 hours ago, DeadStar said:

The only thing that really works for my nerve pain is lyrica. You could try weed or poppys, but some prescribed pharmaceuticals and a good physiotherapist approved exercise routine could do you wonders.

 

@Sallubrious you are a such a wealth of knowledge. Old school Mma, medical procedures, plants and the list goes on.

I have prescribed pharmaceuticals (lots lol) but I dont like to take them unless I really have to.  I was eating oxycodone by the handful for the first few months, its not a good habit to get into. Weed was an amazing painkiller but it makes me anxious and braindead, so not really an option for me.