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sagiXsagi

Ephedra sp. cultivation notes and discussion

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talking about fragilis / foeminea 

 

I am not pampering anymore, seedlings going well.  several cuttings are stil alive and, some growing happy, for such a "strange" genus to grow,,, 

 

found another one today - actually that same friend :P  found it 

 

beautiful sight, we stopped and I am like, ok lets get couple seeds, there are plenty of fruits... 

 

but I coulnd reach it lol, I grabbed a couple "branches" which were green only no fruits. 

 

seems there's something there :)

 

Edited by sagiXsagi
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Quite possibly but not definately (well I am ... ehm, 95 % percent sure)  I found another strain , ssp or speceis, that seems to fit fragilis descriptions, and it seems that there might be more such specimens in my area) 

 

here is picture that compares fresh foeminea material to dried material of the cf fragilis.  The cf fragilis is still wider even though dried. 

 

And I think, even though I havent revisited the cf fragilis yet, I think there are more than a couple differences to tell, not all desriptions I find are in agreement, but I think I am getting a pattern here.  so it is being an awesome taxonomic journey in a relatively unexplored region. 

 

peace

 

 

P1150369.JPG

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Here are some pictures of my plants.

From above:

Ephedra minima. A dwarf species from central asia.

Ephedra gerardiana var. sikkimensis in summer, in fall and after the harvest in November.

 

K800_IMG_3219.JPG

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K800_IMG_3910.JPG

 

More soon.

Edited by chronic
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Awesome ! are those orange things fruits on the minima? 

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The supposed foeminea I was growing from seed seems its E.fragilis.Which is quite cool, as it means I now have 3 species  It seems many dont differentiate between the two commonest species here. 

 

PICTURES

E.sinica, tips yellowing (cold?), rooted cutting from ebay, in the green pot

E.foeminea from local rooted cuttings, in the metal barrel

E.fragilis (3 pics) seedlings,  approx. 5 months old from seed.  the last lot was not transplanted plus it stayed in a less sunny spot for a longer time during the early months. 

 

E.chilensis (old but viable and older, two lots)  seed was sown today along with fragilis+foeminea , mainly to test viability in a sowing tray that is in large an experiment 

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P1150492.JPG

Edited by sagiXsagi
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update:

 

In a rather premature and weird test run for E.chilensis seeds that were not treated in some way, here are some E.chilensis new borns stills. 

 

These were in the same tray I put my cold-shocked mandragora and tropane seeds, with bottom heat, that had to go to outside light when mandrakes sprout.. some mandrake seedlings even etiolated, I transfered it outside, where its still pretty cold. They sprouted AFTER they were put outside (?) 

 

I also saw a foeminea sprouting in its very early ages.. 

 

all in all, this seed was not the freshest, but shows decent results, and I cant help but wonder if it was only the heat from the heat mat in the tray the first ~10 days than made them sprout relatively uniformly or the combination of heat and then cold. Could chilensis, like mandragora (I know its a stretch) sprout in cold weather, knowing it comes from pretty high elevations?

 

They seem to have bronze-orangish-yellow-brownish colour when new born, like I noticed with E.sinica once, but this might also be a response to cold. 

 

Well cross you're fingers for them, even though I am definately sowing more of them soon.. 

 

PS: also included a detail of a small foeminea cutting sprouting new shoots

 

chilensis newborn1.jpg

chilensis newborn2.jpg

chilensis newborn3.jpg

foeminea-cutting-detail.jpg

Edited by sagiXsagi
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some more plates: fragilis seed birth, foeminea immature cones, foeminea woody truck at the base of an olive tree

 

 

foeminea-immature cones.jpg

foeminea- base trunk.jpg

fragilis birth plate.jpg

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Thank you for all your hard work and updates. Especially the updates, I love 'em

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the feedback is fully appreciated and , actually needed, once in a while, thank you... 

 

sometimes I am wonder why the heck I keep posting in these threads, other times it feels like a calling for a collaborator or more on reviewing the idea of a monograph on ephedra 

 

when I first got to growing interesting plants, 2007, I was really amazed by vines, climbers. I still love them, its one of my favourite types of plants.  Its only suitable that two of the oldest ephedra in the world, foeminea which is in fact the oldest existing sp. and fragilis , are climber and semi-climber respectively..  and are native to greece! fuck I didn't even know we have 4 fucking species of ephedra..  and along with a couple other climber species of middle east like aphylla (syn. E. alte) they seem to be by far the fastest growing ephedras. seeds large too..  So they they're not only the only extant group of species which is entomophilous, older, and faster growing, but that also means that the rest of species are all newer to them . ephedra genus shifted its manners from entomophilus to anemophilus in order to survive, which seems like a pretty funky adaptation move in a group of plants of gymnosperms that might have played a role or in appearance of angiosperms, the "newer" plants....  

 

Dunno of you know neanderthals seem to have used ephedra along with a couple other useful plants? 

 

And why do you bozo ozzies dont have any species of ephedra native in oz, since it full of deserts and semi-arid places??

 

these and many more are supposed to be elaborated in a monograph-review of ephedra genus

 

The foeminea cuttings that took are already showing signs of climbing behaviour. No mention to the speed of growth (compared to the sinica rooted cutting - which by the way didnt seem to like the especially cold winter colds we recently had) .. perhaps it should be mentioned that the rooted cuttings seem to have more success left in shade at first, even if the whole thing happened in autumn... 

 

pics showing progress of the foeminea plants in a part shade - little direct sun spot 

 

PS: fragilis and foeminea are different species... 

P1150953.JPG

P1150952.JPG

Edited by sagiXsagi
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more plates

 

fragilis - mature and immature fruits.jpg

seed-comp[arison2.jpg

foeminea-newborn1.jpg

foeminea-newborn2.jpg

Edited by sagiXsagi
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the feedback is fully appreciated and , actually needed, once in a while, thank you... 

 

Not surprised, you have done some gorgeous work in this and I can imagine it would be hard to keep up the momentum sometimes

 

sometimes I am wonder why the heck I keep posting in these threads

 

This thread and the mangrove log are some of my favourites on the entire site. Threads like these keep all the valuable info in one place and follow the progress of your species and work over years. One of the important things ( at least for me ) is that I can see actual results, in succession, over time- there are lots of forums and posted information online but most of the time it is difficult to tell when a contributor's post is just an idea they had, whether they tried it, if it worked and how the processes/ experiments were adapted

 

It also ( again, it could just be IMO ) marks you out as someone who is dedicated and thorough, not just mouthing off random thought bubbles and leaving the room. If I needed any Ephedra info in the future you would be one of the people I would ask first

 

other times it feels like a calling for a collaborator or more on reviewing the idea of a monograph on ephedra 

 

Yum! An Ephedra monograph? Bring it on! Sounds like a big task but it would be a lovely thing indeed

 

 

 Its only suitable that two of the oldest ephedra in the world, foeminea which is in fact the oldest existing sp. and fragilis , are climber and semi-climber respectively..  and are native to greece! fuck I didn't even know we have 4 fucking species of ephedra..  and along with a couple other climber species of middle east like aphylla (syn. E. alte) they seem to be by far the fastest growing ephedras. seeds large too..  So they they're not only the only extant group of species which is entomophilous, older, and faster growing, but that also means that the rest of species are all newer to them . ephedra genus shifted its manners from entomophilus to anemophilus in order to survive, which seems like a pretty funky adaptation move in a group of plants of gymnosperms that might have played a role or in appearance of angiosperms, the "newer" plants....  

 

More lovely things I did not know, thank you

 

 

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Thanks for your generous words of compliment. 

 

To be honest, an ephedra monograph on american species is being written as we speak by one of the worlds leading experts on the genus. 

 

So a monograph-compilation-reviewing-popularisation on ephedras might sound like terribly LOTS of work, but actually there are tons of papers and source material and work already done around. So the first thing one has to do is compile and read all ephedra papers that exist, some of them very new (2016) .. I am still finding papers I didnt know, and I propably have to do a chronological list of the papers at some point.

 

One of the fascinating aspects of this material is the botany of the genus which has become much clearer than it used to be, complete with phyllogeny and all. 

 

From my point of view there are several interesting chapters in Ephedra's  importance 

1. Botany, descriptions

2. ethnobotany, content, pharmacology, minor alkaloids 

3. palaiontology implications, the history of the genus through millions of years

4. growing notes 

 

PS: I am offering seed from fragilis and foeminea to those interested. I suggest you grow at least fragilis. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by sagiXsagi
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oh boy i just love me dinosaur plants ! this was such a good read i found 20 sinica seeds on amazon and a quick exciting vid to add...

will let ya know how it go , especially as they're hardy enough for outdoors on my glacier...

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I got some species to share if you care, TH. PM me..  

 

Awesome vid!  Says its E.foliata in the description which makes sense as it reminds me of foeminea/fragilis birth (foliata is mediterranean - north africa and possibly climber or semi-climber)

Edited by sagiXsagi
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I got some species to share if you care, TH. PM me..  

 

Awesome vid! 

 

heck yeh thankye very kindly in advance man ..., I dnno why I didn't used to be too interested but you really sparked an interest with this cool thread.

 

I've been hunting, what I quickly gathered was, the "main 3" : sinensis, equisssssomethingtiana and viridis but they're all cool plants in that genus and probably all worth knowing about and growing... plus the little pine cone's cuteness of gymnosperm factor is like the icing on the cake :) 

 

i just found another 3 vid and currently hunting more to add if it;s cool

anyhoo here's them , I'm still watching the 2nd

 

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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sure, bring them videos on, but mind you, there's LOTS OF BAD INFO around. Also taxonomy is still a problem. 

 

You should also think about what plant is suitable to your climate not only the hype of each species... E.gerardiana is suitable for colder climates.  

 

I had found a dutch site selling 6-7 types of ephedra seed that tempted me to buy, but I am being quite busy as is... let me know if you find a good source of multiple species... 

 

 

Edited by sagiXsagi
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is it that site that has a minimum 15eur order or else you get a 7.50eur fee? that has no paypal option? .. lol 

I think that might be the site I've been mming and aahing over for a few nights .. banks charge £8 to pay that way here..

 

not read any hype ... just dove in to whatever goog would cough up...

 

 

OBJECTIVE:

To study the characteristics of the Ephedra sinica seed germination, to provide a basis for its cultivation.

METHODS:

The seed germination inhibitive substances were studied by water washing method; the seed vigor was determined by TTC method and red ink method, the influence of growth substances to seed germination was studied by agar medium cultivation, and the influence of different sand burying depth on seed germination was studied by sand medium cultivation.

RESULTS:

The seed germination rates of dry seeds, seeds as 12 h soaking with distilled water, 12 h washing by water and with ensheathe phyllary were 44%, 61%, 79.9% and 0%. Treated with 40 mg/L GA, the seed germination enhanced significantly as the maximum seed germination rate was 94% after 2 d. Treated with 40 mg/L IAA and 40 mg/L 6-BA, the seed germination delayed as the maximum seed germination rate appeared after 7 d, and the difference of seed germination index between treated and CK was significant (P<0.05). In the sand burying depth 0-6 cm, with the depth increasing, the seed germination rate gradually increased. But above 6 cm, when the depth increased, the seed germination rate gradually decreased. Moreover, as the sand burying depth increased, the root length changed in parabola-shaped and the stem length increased, but the root top radio decreased.

CONCLUSIONS:

The phyllary and seed of Ephedra sinica contain some seed germination inhibitors, adequate water washing, dealing with GA and so on can improve the seed germination rate and speed up the seed germination. Appropriate deep sand burying can also improve seed germination and seedling emergence of Ephedra sinica.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19771835

 

....

I already read that the ones I hunt will take zone 7 so i reckon zone 8 should be fine ..

will see I guess.. maybe will have to over winter a few in the bathroom or something..

 

It's definitely been done before further north from me from what I can gleam off the web

but there are some nice microclimates over here if ya lucky... could be those  helping for all i know?

 

here's some more I just ripped from shroomerites

Quote:

Recently I've had a fair few people ask me how I germinate Ephedra seeds. I used to follow methods found here and elsewhere, but always had poor results.

Now I use the following method, with reliably good results.

I've found the best way to germinate Ephedra seeds is to sow them on the surface of a good, but well draining mix. Getting a good seed raising mix and mixing it with a bit of coarse sand/fine gravel/perlite/diatomite should be ideal.

If you can be bothered, the seeds should be sown with the point down, so that the radicle emerges straight into the soil. If you just scatter the seeds across the surface without orientating each seed, the radicle may emerge skywards, resulting in the root arching over to find the soil, wasting energy in the process and risking drying out while exposed. It still works of course, but you might find yourself painstakingly trying to help out those seedlings which have not immediately found the soil.

Until the seeds germinate and the cotyledons have unfurled, you should keep them humid by whatever means you find convenient, such as polyethylene wrap placed over the pot/s, or placing them inside an enclosed plastic tub, etc. Then shortly after, harden them off to to atmospheric humidity so that the seedlings do not succumb to damping off. Be careful not to let the pot/container get too hot while enclosed with cling wrap or whatever you're using to keep it humid as they will cook (so full sun is not a good idea at first). Partial sun is good, at least initially. Full sun should be fine when they've established themselves a little. After that, treat them similarly to cacti, e.g. don't over water, etc, but also be careful not to under water. Just make sure that the soil is always at least a little moist, but not saturated.

Hopefully this will be of some help to others. :smile: 
 



I copied this from another forum and I am sure the author wont mind.

Cheers
Got

.... and some cool link there

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/10508443

""

another wise snippet :

""mix 2 parts sand with 1 part soil, and start your ephedra in that.

I  start them in the early spring.

when they get older they can be transplanted into a mix of loose soil and rocks.

from what I understand, it would be like a hillside, where there was some erosion and it

piled little bits of dried dirt and rock.

loose with good drainage, and lots of rock to conquer!   """

Ephedra seeds germinate better if you soak them in hot water a few hours before planting
them in a sand\soil mix, have the pots in a warm place.
that was the advice given to me on shaman australis at least,
I have germinated e. sinica and e. viridis this way and both spouted just fine
"""
Sprout them in a standard mini greenhouse,
they will grow ok through the winter under standard flourescent lighting as long as you
don't over water
and give them plenty of sun in the spring, works for me!
""

Ma-huang  (Ma huang) (Ephedra sinica)
Family: Ephedraceae 
Hardiness:  to - 40 degrees F.
Perennial, primitive shrub. Native to the steppes of north and northwestern China.

 Does well in pots.  
 Ma-huang prefers full sun and dry, sandy soils.

Seed planting and germination:  The seed is easy to germinate in a warm, sandy medium.

Strew the seed on surface of very sandy potting soil (50% sand) and barely cover with more

of the same potting soil.  

Tamp securely and keep evenly moist until germination, 
which in the greenhouse or under propagation lights should take about 11 days.  

If you are trying to do this outside in the garden it might take longer, as cold nights will

prolong germination times.  

Basically you want to provide as much control as possible

(ie plant in flats, not in the garden dirt) because the seedlings are small and you need to

work them up to about 4 inches before transplanting.  

After germination, back off on the wateringbecause the young seedlings can easily

damp off--this is a desert plant.  

We grow the plants in a sand mulch, about 4 inches thick, in the full sun, with moderate

watering. They create, in 2 or 3 years, a stubby, woody trunk bristling with the jointed stems.

The flower is inconspicuous, but the fruits are quite fascinating--fleshy scales adhered

together at the end of the branch, colored orange, gooey and mucilagenous, and very sweet

to the taste, containing the paired seeds with their flattened sides lightly clasped together.

Cold hardy.

The plants need to be planted out in a good situation and grown out for a couple of years
before they get big ""

""

 
Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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dude I paid 25 euros for a shitty sinica cutting from ebay - if this dude sells x8 species of ephedra seeds that I dont have , sure I will pay - and I dont need to pay a fee to send euros to holland  through winbanking.. 

 

we could buy them together and split the seed ! 

 

cheers

 

Edited by sagiXsagi
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4/2/2017  sowed sinica, chilensis seed...

 

somewhat similar seed, but sinica is more pump and has dark brown over tones, as opposed to the shiny black and more elongated chilensis.. 

 

made 2 pots of each, placed them on my heat-mat. Thinking of experimenting with bringing one of each pot to spend a night or two out, in the cold, seeing how chilensis sprouted after I took them out , to see how it might affect sprouting. 

 

I also brought the tray with  E fragilis foeminea chilenis and mandrake seedling in to fluoro light I will use to start my chillis as well,,, I had to bring in as snails found out about the mandrake seedlings- boy they are drawn to them, 

 

 

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Hey dude, do they cross polinate?

I kinda don't wanna make any hybrids by accident, at least, not until I learn the species themselves..

and I might wanna make hybrids on purpose one day, but probably unlikely....

 

I'm defo down for seed shopping plan too aye and thank you kindly,

 

Here, have a cool link !

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27277-werewolf-plant-waits-for-the-light-of-the-full-moon/

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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I had some ephedra (forgot which one) germinating but it was always the same that after a while the plants died. What conditions do they like after germinating?

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TH>> there are supposed to be at least 1 natural hybrid in north americas 

 

but it would be pretty hard to accidentally creat e a hybrid - because first you should grow 2 seperate plants to maturehood, to flowering - you think that's easy??/  and then, the two flowering plants should be male and female and compatible,  that propably means from the same sub-clade. 

 

in any case TH, you are many years behind accidentally creating hybrids or producing any amount of proper fruit! 

 

gertenzwerg> check out the growing notes compiled in this thread. there's a tip to put sand/pebbles at the last 2 cm of the pot, so that the base of the seedling doesnt rot (by torsten I think) . Many say they die after 2 years.. 

 

well these plants come from arid and semi-arid places. needing free-draining soil....  

 

Why dont you take my advice and first try some foeminea/fragilis, which seem to be somewhat easier (they are quite faster growers) than their asian sisters. 

 

So in chosing the species you want to grow, you cant decide based on the hype / myth of the species... the hardiness and rate of growth must be taken in to account.. 

 

 

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i dont really know any myths about them , well until last night i read something about haoma/somlata, but that's all so far... , 

which is kinda making the genus exciting and all brand new and sparkly to me ..

 

what myths are there abound and are they fun to read?

 

just plopped 5 of those sinica in some soak water a couple of days ago , most floated but a few began to sink

 

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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Thanks, the pebbles idea is good. Maybe I shuold treat them like succulents - they like a mulch of stones on the top. Our climate in the Upper mountians is not very forthcoming to ephedra - which species would you recommend? I tried one used in Chinese medicine and I want to try it once again and the one which is called mormon tea (as far as memory serves).

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TH>> sorry about being vague using the term myths - I meant the hype (we use it like this in greek) sourrounding some species, like sinica which seem hard to grow, desert species as they are, and very slow too... 

 

anyways there many realities on Ephedra genus..  dont really know about myths, I am trying to play the botanist and grower and not the historian here.... I try to study the facts and there are many - too many in fact, thats why I asked for help and peer reviewers... 

 

Anywayz the genus is one candidate for the Soma and thats all the myth you can get for a plant! Especially gerardiana. Raetsch sure includes many ethnobotany notes on many species and their traditional uses , in his encyclopedia, 5 pages on the genus... I will send you that in the notes we were talking and to all who will be interested to collaborate in the project... pretty awesome research, raetsch mini monograph to the genus.. perhaps the place to start from when researching ephedra species

 

but we have such fascinating data coming from the scientific research on the genus and family , such stories, better than any myth. 

 

we know neanderthals were probably using the plant ( go figure) .

we know the genus came almost to be extinct but shifted its pollination method to conquer new, arid areas in order to survive and it did! it spread to the whole planet!

what a champion plant!! 

there also more and more data that suggests that ephedra and the other two extant Gnetales genera (couple of species) are key to understanding how plants became more modern: angiosperms.. 

we see that ephedras without ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are still refreshing and sought after in the gym and bodybuilding industry.. 

we are looking at perhaps the most ancient extant group of psychoactive plants

we are looking at a plant whose extinct relatives lived in a world of conifer trees, ferns and... dinosaurs!!!

 

now hypothesize all you want and wonder why stimulants were here before psychedelics... here comes the myths... and how potency usually but not necessarily seems to increase , the slower the rate of growth of the species.. 

 

create a myth of your own - its free and it can now, in 2016 be based on hard scientific data... 

 

Edited by sagiXsagi
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