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Roopey

Rape - Rustica Snuff

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For all the non-oz members, this just popped up:

http://katukina.com

Haven't tried there stuff yet, but it looks legit and I'm going to be getting some in soon, I'll let you guys know how it goes, but I figured I'd post up the link for interested parties.

Edit: I'm very unsure of how this ended up in this forum...if a mod could please move it...thanks.

Edited by Roopey

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Why non oz members only?

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Maya Ethnobotanicals used to sell these blends before UK laws changed prohibiting the export of tobacco products.

No problem importing tobacco-based snuff into Australia, up to 2 kg from memory.

These blends are amazing, very complex flavours.

They are reportedly sourced from Amazonian tribes and don't list the ingredients, do you can only imagine what exotic ingredients they contain.

Good to hear from you Roopey you sexy beast

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Erm i'm pretty sure the UK allows tobacco export, certain in fact.

Aust customs limit is 1.5kg without a permit, the duty and handling hurts though.

Isn't this company kakutina based in the UK? That's why I asked, I'm pretty sure most of there products would be sweet to import to OZ

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Erm i'm pretty sure the UK allows tobacco export, certain in fact.

Aust customs limit is 1.5kg without a permit, the duty and handling hurts though.

Isn't this company kakutina based in the UK? That's why I asked, I'm pretty sure most of there products would be sweet to import to OZ

Looks like I got it all wrong!

Maybe Maya ethnos were based is Holland & had to get the rape sold out of UK?

I don't remember. Anyway I've tried these blends from a previous supplier & they are amazing. Not cheap though.

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Way to expensive, even for artisan snuffs there prices are insane!

They do have some interesting products though..

Kambo sticks yeah :unsure: .

There's an old thread on here somewhere about a member trying kambo. Interesting read, not sure i'd be game :blink:

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Nee How! From 号汪驴 Ghost Doctor to Master Pat Uri. You most certainly can order into Australia - and Customs are only capable of seizing one in five tobacco imports (as all Dark Webbers know too well). If you place two orders one will get in and you can abandon the other to customs - the one that gets in offsets the extortionate and exploitive import duty they charge.

Talking about these extortionate rates and exploitation:- Kutakina's product is not a rape' ("rah - peh" otherwise you may terrify someone ordering a "rape") which is the coarsest grade of snuff - from the French "rasped" tobacco.

"Mapacho at Katukina" 'handmade' 'by enchanted Amazonian pygmies at AUD$19.14 for 12g???' Ha! They must think we are on drugs!

It looks exactly like Toque Snuff's product "Rustica" which is available in "coarse" and "fine", and "whiskey and honey" scent too, and 50g economy bag will cost an Australian (looking at Master Pat Uri's 2015-2016 shipping manifest) with delivery included, AUD$19.77 total at present exchange rate. Their service is second to none and the Master has had 3 orders delivered in 10 days to remotest C Q this year. All of these orders cleared Customs without duty or delay - when you see how they package it you will know why.

Not made by vibsy jungle shaman, but a ruddy great factory by Irishmen - but same stuff. Save you lots, but has cost Katukina's cred.

Regards. Spelt 号汪驴 pronounced "Donkey Wang"

Edited by Pat Uri
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Toque make some beautiful snuffs, there Toasts especially. Nearly but not quite on par with Wilsons of Sharrow and Fribourg and Treyer's(now owned by WOS), which is feat considering how long they've been at it comparatively speaking...

Edited by katu
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Have ordered the 50g economy bag of Rustica from Toque several months before along with a couple other orders of snuff under 200g and they made it through customs no worries while being blatantly labelled as Tobacco nasal snuff along with the weight of the contents inside. I think orders under 200 or 250g are exempt from the fees? Don't think it's the same story when it comes to snus though.

Toque make some beautiful snuffs, there Toasts especially. Nearly but not quite on par with Wilsons of Sharrow and Fribourg and Treyer's(now owned by WOS), which is feat considering how long they've been at it comparatively speaking...

I agree with you katu, Toque makes great snuffs but in my opinion many of them suffer from having the same or a similar base tobacco. F&T to me are just on a whole other level... mhmmm Old Paris...

Anyway... these smokeless tobacco laws are bloody ridiculous! Smoke as many cancer sticks as you like to get your nicotine fix but noooo.... you're not allowed to chew/snuff/snus for your fix even though it's obviously a safer alternative.

Has anyone imported any rape or nunu or any sort of shamanic snuff successfully into Australia before? And if so, can you point me in the right direction? Pretty interested in trying the genuine thing.

Edited by Nibbana
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Wow another snuff aficionado, man we're a rare breed in OZ!

I don't think any amount of imported tobacco is exempt though mate, you just got lucky B). It's hit and miss. I've been hit for duty when importing 50gm of snuff then have had a 1kg order slip through. Lately every fucking order I make I get smashed for duty :BANGHEAD2: . I've had snus, dip and chew both slip through and be nabbed.

Your right regarding Toque, my nose detects the same Tobacco base throughout all their range i've sampled. That Toque Natural Toast is a winner though. Have you tried F&T High Dry Toast or Wilsons No 22 Irish Toast. Beautiful snuffs. What about the Abraxas range? Expensive but absolutely exquisite! Not all day snuffs, more of an after dinner with a fine port/cognac kind of deal.

But yeah don't even get me started about Australian smokeless tobacco laws. The honorably Pat Uri, or maybe his dog :) summed it up in words much more eloquent than I have the vocabulary for in another thread regarding traditional curing methods of tobacco.

A member on here a while back imported a few unbelievable traditional rape snuffs. A dark rustica kind of number, another which was similar in colour and aroma to a Toast and a green, which was similar to but probably not a nunu. Was snuff in its rawest form. I am for ever grateful to this member as through him I was able to sample some beautiful traditional rape's.(U know who you are, do it again so I can buy them all!!!)

The SAB shop has nunu in small 2gm jars, lovely stuff to sample, just 2gm of snuff doesn't go a long way with my nose :lol: .

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P's Dog here - that's Phaemon's Dog, of course. Now we are talking!

Wow another snuff aficionado, man we're a rare breed in OZ!

I don't think any amount of imported tobacco is exempt though mate, you just got lucky B). It's hit and miss. I've been hit for duty when importing 50gm of snuff then have had a 1kg order slip through. Lately every fucking order I make I get smashed for duty :BANGHEAD2: . I've had snus, dip and chew both slip through and be nabbed.

Your right regarding Toque, my nose detects the same Tobacco base throughout all their range i've sampled. That Toque Natural Toast is a winner though. Have you tried F&T High Dry Toast or Wilsons No 22 Irish Toast. Beautiful snuffs. What about the Abraxas range? Expensive but absolutely exquisite! Not all day snuffs, more of an after dinner with a fine port/cognac kind of deal.

But yeah don't even get me started about Australian smokeless tobacco laws. The honorably Pat Uri, or maybe his dog :) summed it up in words much more eloquent than I have the vocabulary for in another thread regarding traditional curing methods of tobacco.

I agree with you katu, Toque makes great snuffs but in my opinion many of them suffer from having the same or a similar base tobacco. F&T to me are just on a whole other level... mhmmm Old Paris...quoted from Nibbana.

Repect Nibbana! Respect Katu! ANY amount of imported Tobacco will be seized by Border Protection - If they detect it. The 200g limit is all over. We get away with it with Toque Rustica because Customs ain't smart enough to realise Toque's Declaration "nasal snuff" is actually 'tobacco snuff' - and wonder why we don't respect them! plus toque plastic bag flat packing doesn't come up the same way as tins or boxes of snuff in xray scans, looks more like cinnamon, etc. Plus sniffer dog narcs don't smell rustica the same way as tabacum. But for Pete's sake let us keep this our little secret. Plus Customs is all "huff and puff' or to use Donkey Wang's chinese expression "kill chicken, scare monkey" even synthetic designers "for research only not human consumption"(!!!!!) stand more chance of getting in, than seized.

Yeah Katu was being very polite I think! The pommies really understand subtle, fine perfumes and flavours - their lollies and sweets are so delicate, not like our crude stuff. Toque is the Ronald McDonald of snuff - no offense, value but a bit 'ordinary' one feedstock no complex blending. WoS better and I really dig buying off a company that's near 300 year's old in continuous product. I think Pat's got a invit to go over and celebrate their 3rd centenary in a few years - but they are the original Euro Royal Family of tobacco, and that is not a polite thing to say. (Tell yas the yarn sometime.) F&T, same mob, is the top shelf stuff and use feedstocks that in some cases are hundreds of years old. Love their DR J R Justice, and Prince Special is like Bob Marley and Jacob Miller back from the dead and jammin' in your head! Because F&T use only nature sourced perfumes regardless of cost their Prince (one of Pat Uri's favourites because it matches his skin colour, so no accidental snuff moustache) got ambergris, and civet and tonquin deer musk - the nut juice off the stags that mark their territory and dominance. The property's bulls and mickeys (the cleanskins) known Pat since they were calves. Now cattle have bad eyesight but very good sense of smell and the remanent of F&T Prince musk on Pat Uri makes him smell like the KING BULL to even the wildest fighting scrubber. They'll charge out of the bush to crush any other man but stop dead, heads up and turn still waiting for him to pat them. Even the local police know better than to bring sniffer narc dogs onto the property. See - cattle hate dogs unless they know them. To cattle even little pet Tiddles the toy terrier smells like a wolf, their instinctual enemy, and a mickey will rip a car apart to kill it. But in the US there you might wanna watch out using the musky snuffs when hiking bush, not for feral bulls, but I understand deer musk is the dinner bell sounding for bears!

Your right regarding Toque, my nose detects the same Tobacco base throughout all their range i've sampled. That Toque Natural Toast is a winner though. Have you tried F&T High Dry Toast or Wilsons No 22 Irish Toast. Beautiful snuffs. What about the Abraxas range? Expensive but absolutely exquisite! Not all day snuffs, more of an after dinner with a fine port/cognac kind of deal.

Wilsons No 22 is excellent and twice the nicotine of F&T and WoS, but such good tobacco you don't notice. Save your money on Abraxas - as the name suggests it is a trendy, trustafarian gimmick.

Sorry I've made a dog's breakfast of the quote thing - I'm on Pat's office laptop he left in Brissy (down for G20 - funny stories there, I tell you!) with "remember me" login, touchpad and key sensitivity set for a halfblind, arthritic old man. So much as spill yarndhi ash on it, which is happening, and it'll go off - either that or it's demonically possessed which, knowing him, is just as likely. Home country folk expected to see him yesterday for tobacco birthday (Columbus Day) but he's still walkabout, not even in the caves. The home boys played Inner Circle's "Mary, Mary" on the landcruiser's stereo loud as, but even that didn't flush him out. They reckon they did hear loud snoring off the tableland cliff though down the Callide valley somewhere though.

Not me making comments about Fed Laws on tobacco that was housey Donkey Wang - he made the one above recommending Toque as equivalent mapacho. He is alright and very qualified herbalist, expert in traditional Asian medicine AND Pat Uri's adopted him because he is a devout barefoot (with scabies). Only a total tight arse like him would have you save bucks buying mapacho off toque, rather than support little companies but he is my clan brother and that is that. Plus what is wrong with a few opinions eh? that is what team work is all about and that is the way of our Elder law maker Pat Uri - the human chain, the "One World, One Love".

Wang Donkey has started another work shift of 13 days so shouldn't hear much out of him. (Mind you at the time this thread was in Sustainable Tech. so I understand his penny pinching. Plus he is right - that ain't true mapacho rape' as you get from Peru and Brazil, et al South America)

Assuming you don't mind the expense and it is worth it - given import duty - the most excellent pommie rustica rape' (or in English rapee) are Sir Walter Scott's. Don't be put off by the implied Royal Family connotation - even the most traditional Amazonian "headsplitter" "untouchable one" shaman will be your eternal friend with a gift of these - to them tobacco is more than a pressie, it is an icebreaker. The mapacho accentuated offerings are:- "St. James Parish Blend" and man, you are back with the Iroquois there! and "Auld Alliance", "all white mans sins are forgiven let us forge a new future together as brothers!" direct quoted review from tearfully grateful Don Kikuron; not rustica but bloody worth the mention and recommended gift to South American curanderos Indian is "Thrice Brewed" new tradition, but very good tradition. Rumour has it the Sir Walter personally supervises the blends and is a true brother in tobacco - fussy we are, but racist we not.

Sozz about the real shit format above - no dis here K. and N. - please understand I'm not good with the use of the tools here and Windows 10 - what happened to when you could author offline? I'll get Donkey Wang to reformat when he's not busy to proper respect Katu and Nibanna. Keep up there good folk! P's Dog (Pat Uri insists if we use his computer we acknowledge who we are as courtesy to mods. He apologises for all his past forum mistakes getting into trouble with the mods as a newbie he didn't understand forum rules, has different old school culture:- once he gets too many readers he gets "shame" and censorship confuses and "shames" him. Really he is one of the funniest, gifted, multi talented, yet furious and terrifying person that exists!) OK and bye.

Edited by Pat Uri
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P's dog, I fuckin love u man, seriously :worship: ....Your words are like...??? Reading a classic piece of literature. The first time you read them you let them just flow over you, try not to think to much...The second time you begin to comprehend.....Then the third time makes you smile. You wield words like some kick arse literate ninja, tis a lost art my friend..

But yes, the English IMHO make some of if not the best snuffs in the world, the Irish ain't to shabby either..

How in gods name did Pat get an invite to Wilsons of Sharrow Centenary?? How big is his carry on luggage? Katu is a small guy and flights from Sydney to Heathrow can take as little as 24hrs nowadays...I would do unspeakable acts to attend that monumental gathering...

The thing that upsets me most about Toque is that whole hipster thing they've got going on. Seriously what's with that. There's something just a little sacrilegious about the whole get up. WOS make my personal favourites. I would of loved to try the F&T range before they were taken over by Wilsons. The old snuff aficionados swear it's not the same despite the recipes being unchanged. Different hands, barrels, factory, makes sense..

Sir Walter Scott's makes some of the best artisan snuffs I have ever tried. Have got their Lundy Foot in my rotation at the moment. Lovely stuff. Very old techniques, production methods being used by that mob..

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Oh - P's dog is not Pat's dog. No, no. Pat Uri doesn't keep dogs for the cattle reason. He'd love to, he is in hipster speak more "a dog person" than "a cat person" but he loves them all dogs, cats, cows, etc. He even loves dogs more than cattle because dogs are so hearty and sweet in nature, and cats lovely, but sharp and bony. He likes cat intestine though. Yep, dog over beef over cat...Gulp! Just another reason I keep out of his sight.

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(Quote from Katu above:-)

"How in gods name did Pat get an invite to Wilsons of Sharrow Centenary?? How big is his carry on luggage? Katu is a small guy and flights from Sydney to Heathrow can take as little as 24hrs nowadays...I would do unspeakable acts to attend that monumental gathering...

I would of loved to try the F&T range before they were taken over by Wilsons. The old snuff aficionados swear it's not the same despite the recipes being unchanged. Different hands, barrels, factory, makes sense.

Have got their Lundy Foot in my rotation at the moment. Lovely stuff." (Katu Quote ends.)

Dare say you have it there Katu - Pat Uri did some unspeakable things to get his position - not as unspeakable as having "their Lundy Foot in his rotation" but...Pat Uri only travelled between states here in Australia recently, not overseas, that was last millennia, with carry on. Serious one now - don't go to Heathrow with contraband, man they will "pleasure you" with a marigold clad fist and have you crap in a fishtank for "their pleasure" if you so much as sniff of contraband. I understand the Pommie Customs are full on and make Guantanamo Bay look like a picnic place if you invoke their ire. They have the power to temporarily arrest you (WTF???) for having Poschl Snuffy Weiss until they are satisfied it ain't cocaine. Mind, and so they should punish users of those two atrocities = the coke and the snuffy Weiss!

OK - you raised a excellent point. The old fartisans do claim "everything was better in their day" but in the case of tobacco there is an important, thread related reason.

Tobacco like say wine is a natural product and it is near impossible to keep consistency in complex flavour year after year. Seasonal changes, soil conditions, etc. make one vintage better than another, one locality better than another, even one side of a crop better than the other etc . and it changes more frequently than Australian political leadership. You can tame it with artificial additives but that is the difference between cigarettes and quality cigars, or fine vintage wine and cordial. Cigarettes stay brand specific flavour year after year because they bleach out the flavour (know as "puffing" in the industry much like making ricebubbles and allows them to sell you the worthless stalk as tobacco - bastards, huh? but a fool and their money are easy to separate) and then artificially reflavour it. Chew makes it much simpler.

Tobacco is worst for inconsistency - not even the same packet of same cigarettes taste identical. Regardless of cloning not every plant same, not even every leaf, or parts there of, off the same plant is the same. It gets worse - some tobacco is flavoursome, but won't burn; some will burn, but compact heavily; some has flavour, but won't keep; some will fill nicely but have no flavour; some will have all these but ugly, black ash; some will be okay in respects but be so scarce you can't get enough for feedstock to meet demand, etc.etc. blah. blah.

The only way to get around it is to blend - tobacco must be blended to get all the right stuff.

In fact as a general rule, the bottom leaves have good burning properties but no flavour, the middles have good body and pack well, but little flavour and less burning properties; and the tops have all the flavour but are dense and poor burning.

Availability is the next biggest problem - once you've got a decent crop going and built a reputation, governments will come along and make new rules about where and how it can be sold. Then comes the problem of seasons and disease.

In the old days people started in the tobacco fields at a young age and slowly learnt the strains and the curing. After decades they might become decent growers and a select few good at curing. A very few had the natural gift of sorting. But rarest were the ones who had the gift to 'taste', smell and distinguish potentially profitable good stuff. These were the elite few, natural athletes of tobacco with senses beyond us mere mortals - like wine tasters or gifted musicians of extraordinary superhuman ability. These demigods were captured by the Companies and flown all around the world to follow the markets, select the required feedstock, negotiate the bales, keep consistency in the product at something affordable, profitable for the company. Their talent was the make or break every year for the whole industry. They were the original "jet set" the term was coined after - mind you, not paid as much as they were really worth, anymore than a bloodhound is esteemed for its ability, rare as it might be. No computer or analytical lab can achieve the subtly of subjective human perception - and "know" what is a beautiful piece of art, an alluring perfume or an exquisite taste. But once the amazing critic has determined this only then can a little objectivity be made. No amount of analytical chemistry says what is good caapi, say, only bioassay from a knowledgeable shaman determines that. Same with tobacco.

Sadly with our digital information age that mastery isn't around, people look for ratings and view counts, alkaloid levels and second hand reviews and the field isn't there to develop it. Its a world where people trust Wikipedia over their own sensibility. Instant "knowledge" rather than the years of hard yakka and dedication, first hand experience and genuine talent.

So the tobacco business, like many others, aint the same for the simple lack of true, old school talent. No-one is left to make the art and trail blaze our future. Few have the guts to be the real heroes like the amazing Mr T of SAB to whom we all owe a great debt of gratitude for bringing us together.

Yeah old Pat started out a shitkicker in the tobacco field and ended up one of the big jet set graders amongst the Internationals - all with that nose of his.

Sozz I've had my speech for that dear old fart. But that is why the old school tobacco will never be the same.

Regards P'sDog.

Edited by Pat Uri
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Glad I got lucky with the few orders I put through! Really hoping I am lucky next time round... How lucky have you guys been with your orders lately?

I'm not an everyday snuffer of any kind, I usually blow large amounts of Toque Rustica up my nose using a cut bendy straw on special occasions... Although a few days a week I would take a boxcar or two or three :P of other snuffs as I do find the experience extremely pleasurable, haven't learnt to pinch properly yet. Still exploring the world of snuff, but absolute favourites at the moment are Old Paris and Toque USA Whiskey and Honey and ofc the rustica. Wish I could take more of the Santo Domingo as I love that earthy leathery smell but it really clogs up my nose for some reason.

Will have to check out more WoS stuff, only have their IHT22 atm.

Your right regarding Toque, my nose detects the same Tobacco base throughout all their range i've sampled. That Toque Natural Toast is a winner though. Have you tried F&T High Dry Toast or Wilsons No 22 Irish Toast. Beautiful snuffs. What about the Abraxas range? Expensive but absolutely exquisite! Not all day snuffs, more of an after dinner with a fine port/cognac kind of deal.

The SAB shop has nunu in small 2gm jars, lovely stuff to sample, just 2gm of snuff doesn't go a long way with my nose :lol: .

Yep I've got HDT and IHT, to me they seem very similar in scent but I've taken more of the IHT22 because It has been easier for me to take personally. Got the natural toast as well and although nice, the scent seems significantly different to HDT and IHT, I smell some sort of musky sour tone to it which is nice but I tend to prefer the other two. ^^ Another great toast is the IDL, very unique creamy biscuity to it which I love. Haven't tried any Abraxas yet though I will consider! There's just too many snuffs to try and not enough dough to go around ahahaha.

Thanks for the heads up with SAB shop selling nunu! Will be keen on sampling, wouldn't pay that price for 2 grams of snuff usually but assuming it is genuine nunu my curiosity will probably get the best of me.

Assuming you don't mind the expense and it is worth it - given import duty - the most excellent pommie rustica rape' (or in English rapee) are Sir Walter Scott's. Don't be put off by the implied Royal Family connotation - even the most traditional Amazonian "headsplitter" "untouchable one" shaman will be your eternal friend with a gift of these - to them tobacco is more than a pressie, it is an icebreaker. The mapacho accentuated offerings are:- "St. James Parish Blend" and man, you are back with the Iroquois there! and "Auld Alliance", "all white mans sins are forgiven let us forge a new future together as brothers!" direct quoted review from tearfully grateful Don Kikuron; not rustica but bloody worth the mention and recommended gift to South American curanderos Indian is "Thrice Brewed" new tradition, but very good tradition. Rumour has it the Sir Walter personally supervises the blends and is a true brother in tobacco - fussy we are, but racist we not.

Respect to you too P's Dog! You really seem to know your stuff. Will definitely look into St James Parish Blend and Auld Alliance. Thrice brewed sounds good too. Expenses are definitely something I'll have to be wary of as these artisan snuffs cost quite a lot more, but since tobacco play quite important part in my rituals I'll probably neglect the costs.

Would definitely like something to use that isn't as barnyardy/grassy as Toque Rustica. Hopefully these blends don't carry too much of that Rustica smell, or any at all.

P's dog, I fuckin love u man, seriously :worship: ....Your words are like...??? Reading a classic piece of literature. The first time you read them you let them just flow over you, try not to think to much...The second time you begin to comprehend.....Then the third time makes you smile. You wield words like some kick arse literate ninja, tis a lost art my friend..

I agree with you Katu! Makes me smile reading these pieces of work of his. Honestly took a few reads for me to make sense of it but loved it hahaha.

Thanks for the great info guys :')

Love~
Nibbana.

Edited by Nibbana
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Sounds like you've got some nice snuffs on hand Nibbana! I'm a box car man myself, pinching whilst effective is a bit messy. Lately i've been using one of those self applicators from Southern America which makes for an completely different experience! And by that I mean you can really load those puppies up so to speak :lol:

IDL is Samuel Gawith snuffs yes?? I've tried their Kendal D and Kendal D Light and whilst the flavours/aromas were lovely the fibrous grind completely fucks my nose. Doesn't have the silky texture of the F&T, WOS or Toque Toasts. But yeah i'm with you WOS IHT and F&T HDT are on an entirely different level to Toque. Toque has none of the complexity of the two former. If you haven't worked it out already I love my Toasts :wub:

Me, i'm an everyday snuffer, or should I say hoover :lol: . It's IMHO the best way to consume tobacco. I do to a lesser degree indulge in Snus, Dip and chew, and when I can afford them, which is less often than I would like a good quality cigar. I remember reading an old thread on here from a while back on snuff and a member(I cant remember who) stated "the day I quit cigarettes was the day I discovered tobacco". Couldn't put it better myself.

In terms of customs P's Dog is bang on in terms of packing. Tins get picked up more often than not where as bags seem to slip through, at least a lot more than tins seem to. In saying that I seem to be getting nailed for everything lately. There's something just a little upsetting about the fact that the duty is a far greater cost than the product and shipping combined. Fucking seriously yeah :wave-finger: .

Definitely check out the Nunu. I've tried a few different kinds of green tobacco snuffs to date and they have a completely different feel about them to be honest.

Respect Nibbana! Respect P's Dog, nice to meet some other people that actually appreciate tobacco in terms other than just being addicted to the poison they sell on the shelves!

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Blessings to all! PhaemonsDog here enjoying my latest delivery that arrived this morning free of import duty. (If there is a custom agent out there letting slip the fact snuff is not "smoking tobacco" then Most High bless you and get in touch for a gift of appreciation.)

Respect Katu and Respect Nibbana - looks like we are kicking off the official shaman-australis master thread to ethno snuff!

(Now if any of you bods need snuff to tide you through the droughts of customs irregularities do pm me for a few grams - I know what it is like, waiting 3 weeks for supply only to cop a duty notice and then 4 weeks until you get the goods. Don't freak out and buy a packet of cigarettes in frustration - brother Dog will sort you out! Who says tobacco is an antisocial habit?)

Pat Uri has commented "tobacco grows faster than Australian Customs can process the orders" which might not be a suggestion to grow some yourselves as emergency backup and to really understand the plants complexity, but there is something there anyway.

So new folk readers taking finely powdered tobacco dust up into the nose is the traditional people's way practised for millennia. The head is most sacred and the nostrils revered to the Gods. Old Jamaican saying "what is in my mouth (face) is not mine, but what is in my stomach is mine".

Smoking tobacco destroys most of the goodies and pollutes the lungs. When short of snuff I myself have been forced to make it out of cigarettes rather than be forced back to the smoking habit. Two cigarettes as snuff is enough nicotine to get me through a day when in dire need. So snuffing is the most economical way to use tobacco and how to use the least amount possible - smoking is the most expensive way to use it, less satisfying and the most harming.

The smoker can never get the true pleasure of tobacco - the stimulation, thought focussing, insightfulness etc. it offers. The alkaloid is destroyed and too much toxin delivered to the body in deep inhalation of the smoke. Carbon monoxide etc. dulls the reward and poisonous carcinogens are made and ingested.

Smokers never say "that was a lovely cigarette - I enjoyed that"- they only stave off withdrawal symptoms and buy more cigarettes chasing an elusive lift they will never get again. Their lungs are filled with crap, their throats scalded, immunity destroyed, drown in their own mucus and their pockets emptied.

Only the finest tobaccos are used in snuff delivering the nicotine profile that no smoking can ever give and nowhere near as profitable to the merchants that supply it.

But now - if you are going to use snuff you must start very, very slightly. Your nose, like any other orifice you are going to start to abuse, will require some conditioning at first regardless of how pleasurable it may seem initially....That was how Pat Uri said it - not me!

It will take a few weeks of use to get used to it so take it slowly.

Get yourself a good beginner's snuff like Poschl Ozona range e.g. Apricot, Raspberry or President. Go without smoking for about 18 hours so you are really hanging out for nicotine and then lightly sniff about a match head up each nostril. You will sneeze your head off, but that's OK. If your nose fills with snot blow it out and wait ten minutes and go again. If again it fills with snot blow it out and try again. Usually next time your nose becomes dry, breathing becomes very easy and you start to feel relief from the need to smoke in a surge of energy that illuminates your whole being.

One of Pat Uri's mates was visiting us from Peru and he said "Buena yayo usted debe sentirse de su pene" which I think he would mean that good tobacco snuff you should feel from your very bowels - or something similar in comparison to that.

OK - dinner time for me folks. Catch you again. P'sDog.

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Righto - P'sDog here with a bit more on the fine art of snuff.

Way back in the time of Princess Pocahontas the old tobacco was considered the new expensive "miracle" drug made by mystical, wise ancients, far, far away, endorsed by royal physicians and generally sold to the rich gullible trendies.

Now every drug has a time when it starts off hailed as a new wonder by popular "doctors" and supplied to the filthy rich for their parties, recreation and vague medical conditions. It becomes a status symbol amongst the trendy upper classes who openly flaunt it. Then the drug filters down to the middle classes who always want to ape what the upper classes do. Demand makes a profitable dark market and the quality drops, but the price soars, as the middle classes start to peddle it to the lower classes to finance their lifestyle. The upper classes notice that what was once their exclusive fashionable privilege has now become common and available even amongst the poor - no longer glorious and prestigious - and demand something be done about it. So now the law, politicians and doctors begin the campaign to demonise the drug, persecute its use amongst the poor with ever escalating draconian punishments, scapegoat it as THE cause of criminality, moral decay, disease, poverty, etc. and generally make it expensive, daring and exclusive. This doesn't bother the rich who can either pay doctors, lawyers or their butlers to keep supplying it to their parties, or holiday to a foreign country where it is available or can hire the poor to take the risk for them.

Every drug near without exception goes over this sociological rollercoaster - a time when it is a darling to a time where it is a demon - opium, cocaine, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, AM2201, MDMA, gunja, Xanax - some like cannabis and tobacco are so ancient they'll even do the tour twice - and alcohol got the perpetual season pass! And every generation will come up with a "new" variation of this very old and perfectly predictable phenomena.

Notable exceptions are the "sacred" psychedelics that are not at all fun to take if you don't have a strong moral compass, sense of ego strength and well developed psychological defence mechanisms - the "pleasant unpleasantness" as Aldous Huxley called it - they are not party drugs. Oh - they are still illegal, because they're drugs and drugs are bad and the government owns your consciousness and body and the popular myth is they "get you high" a or they are "addictive".

But getting back to the time when tobacco snuff was the 'rich businessman lunch time high' and prerogative of the upper classes:-

Smoking hadn't become popular at this time because tobacco was supplied by the original Native Americans. Colonists hadn't started to grow much to trade, they weren't good at it and the natives were very protective of it.

Later on John Rolfe smuggled out tabacum seeds from Spanish controlled Trinidad - under pain of death - and grew a crappy crop that the Iroquois laughed at. The Iroquois had one of their nations, "Tobacco Nation" that exclusively grew it for them. If they caught the colonists growing their strains they would have killed them.

Johnny Rolfe realised he could sell his crap to England because they wouldn't know the difference and it was so weak and so poor in quality it was only fit to be smoked anyway - a new novelty. Hear that folks? "Virginia" smoking tobacco is actually the chaff grade that usually compost. Smoking is a faddish way to trick drunken fools into wasting enormous quantities and encourage the "lung" habit of compulsive use - much like "ice" methamphetamine is today.

The "good" stuff - snuff - came from the Portuguese and Spanish that the English elite bought and used regardless of the fact they were actually at war with them and were financing arms deals against their own people - much like cocaine is today - and pretty much same cult status.

Snuff was the rich man's upper of the day and used at parties, business meetings, social gatherings, brothels, etc. with elaborate showy rituals. We actually get a few cultural expressions from that time - "we'll see if he is up to snuff" meaning if he is smart, awake, intellectual, stimulated like he is high on snuff; "we'll try his snuff" meaning if he has the right connections for lucrative business deals; "good as snuff, but not as dusty" clever enough to get away with dodgy, shady business; "he could sell used snuff" excellent, if immoral, at marketing; "snuff is good at a funeral so long as there's no haggling over the snuffbox", redundancies, "restructuring" or asset stripping can still be an escape plan if done with fake regret, because using snuff makes your eyes water in crocodile tears and gives you the snuffles; and the all time classic "a deal not to be sneezed at" you could signal your contempt at a deal by sneezing and pretending it was the snuff.

Oddly that last one persists to this day - Pat Uri knows a Chief Accountant of Local Government whose favourite way of ignoring criticism or anything else he doesn't want to listen to, is by feigning a sneeze that sounds like "bull-sheeeeeet!" in your face. He must have learnt it somewhere as he hasn't the intelligence to come up with it himself - his appointment has turned a once wealthy shire into a $7,000,000,000 debt and thinks nothing of it - now that's "bull-sheeeeet!"

The ritual required the best snuff you could get your hands on and the most expensive snuffbox. The latter are collector items to this day - scour the markets for them - the Chinese still grind beautiful snuff bottles out of jade and other single crystals and because they are donated to local temples can be picked up cheaply if you do the research. They have great investment value.

Most snuff boxes have one polished side to use as a mirror to double check you haven't a snuff moustache. You'll need a foppish handkerchief printed or tie-dyed an intricate black and brown pattern to blow your nose into and delicately dab your nose. Tuck it in your left sleeve - the handkerchief originally came into fashion with snuff use. Snuff comes in every colour to match your skin complexion - from Caucasian "white" snuffs, through to "black" snuffs to match the velvet worn by royals.

Snuffing will cause you to walk with "your nose in the air" so the drip goes down your throat - very fashionable. The upper class always kept the heavily perfumed snuffs to sniff pinches when "a horse walked by" or in the presence of an unwashed commoner. Judges would use it as a signal that they thought "evidence was 'on the nose'" - there is a lot of non-verbal communication that went on with the snuff rituals. Certainly nothing is better for handling a smelly job than a snoz full of snuff. Its use was for the refined gentleman and smoking for the dirty, foul breathed commoner. I actually like snuff when reclining with the laptop or putting my head back driving a car.

Look up Wikipedia for the "anatomical snuffbox" on the back of your hand. Here snuff is placed to make a show out of your taking a little snuff when making yourself the centre of attention. I've seen Pat Uri absolutely astound the audience when leisurely doing it this way in a formal police interview - the look on their faces!

Pat had a run in with Site Management over his snuff use because they couldn't help but associate it with drugs - they were allowed to smoke, why couldn't he snuff? it was discrimination - they could drug test him, and themselves, unless they had something to hide. That was what they were worried about - he'd cause them all to get tested and only he would pass...and they didn't think that fair! (Oh they hate his guts - because he hates them, and all capitalists, annoys them and doesn't hide his contempt of them and love for the workers - you want his respect, you have to work for it.)

You'll notice people who abuse other sorts of sniffable drugs can't stand watching you snuff without wanting a go themselves. This is where they betray their naughty habits because instead of taking a short, smart sniff to get it in their nose, they take a huge sinus crippling full inhalation to get it up their nose as high as possible.

And tobacco ain't coke or speed, like they might be used to, it doesn't numb or shrink the mucous membrane, it wildly activates the nerves like hot pepper and stimulates the sinuses to full charge. They sneeze and cough and run around like horses that have inhaled a bee!

Beginners beware you take it very easy first few weeks - use it only when you have nicotine withdrawals in tiny amounts. It will be some time before you have hardened up your nasal passages and can really indulge. Same when you haven't had it for a while. Then you kind of miss the sneeze and the burn - but then things like yopo will go down very easy and comfortably. Just remember how long it takes a smoker to get used to not coughing. Oddly you never lose your sense of smell snuffing - that only happens with smoking.

I see the bods like their toasts and other fine grinds like the American Scotchs. Until beginners have mastered the breathing technique you might want to stick to the coarse German schmalzler which are impossible to over sniff and get down your throat or lungs. They are bloody good value too - at $8 for 100g and absolutely delicious from the fruity Brasils to the smokey Perlereuter and even one-man factory handmade Sterneker. In Bavaria snuff is quite common - they even have festivals - and I understand there would be public outrage if their government ever attempted to overtax their products. Oh - and no incidence of throat or mouth cancer. Dr Poschl was a German throat specialist who first linked cancer to tobacco smoking and founded his own snuff company to serve the people.

The breathing technique is to completely fill the lungs with air before you sniff so only a tiny sniff is possible. Another is to balance a pile on the tip of your thumb and press it to the nostril to make a seal. Sniff, but do not break the seal - somehow it gets in, but not too far.

The old nunu, eh? Be very careful saying that to a Bengali person because nunu has a very different meaning over there! Oh yes indeed! Offering a sniff of your nunu might get your face punched.

Well folks this has been a long speel from the Dog - hope I haven't bored you with these rustica ravings. Looks like a sleepless Halloween for me - yee! hah!

Bye 4 now! P'sDog.

Oh PS - if you do cop a snuff headache Panadol works very well - the only time it ever does! And a snuff bullet is a good investment for discrete use in public etc. and they even sell models that glow in the dark!

Edited by Pat Uri
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I could never get bored reading posts from the dog. Seriously mate it has been a pleasure reading everything you have posted about tobacco. Please don't stop

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AllSaints Day now - this is HUGE amongst the Clan - the only day where reluctantly Catholic educated Pat Uri was allowed to publically worship the bones of his ancestors. So let us respect C Q tribe ancestor "Sunrise Dreaming" - in skin name - today for his word be spoken, his songs sung, his children remember and cry, as I, Phaemon's Dog, in forum name, carry on his piturii tradition to us all. With deep respect I sing 'pat-uri-pat-uri-pat-uri-bi-al-lee-pat-uri' and now it is said.

Thank you folk for reading so far and encouraging the story of the Spirit of Tobacco and where it has walked.

Now we are up to when the English Jamestown settlement - imperialist invasion - occurred. When the white invaders appeared in their sailing ships within the harbour it absolutely terrified the American Natives.

Princess Pocahontas would have only been a teenager at the time but she realised she, as the only legal, legitimate representative of America at the time, must meet with the alien strangers and work out what they were about. Her father, the King Powhatan, was away in Mohawk Nation and the terrible, fearful job was left to her on the people's behalf.

How very brave she must have been! How incredibly noble and praiseworthy her efforts - as she had no knowledge of whether they would kill her on the spot, it was for her people she represented that she acted.

These English "explorers" recorded that this slight young girl paraded ceremoniously down to them, confidently, at the head an entourage of fearsomely armed and muscular bodyguards, attended by handsomely dressed maids but she was as "naked as Eve, yet still with all of the regal bearing of a noble European Queen in court".

Illustrators of their reports depicted Pocahontas in the tabloids as coming down all rudey-nudey and naked amongst her people to parley with the English.

That is absolute crap! There is no way an Iroquois royal princess would present herself to strangers like a thousand dollar hired stripper would for paid appearance at a boy-only-stag-party! How stupid could you be?

Most likely she presented herself in an elaborate outfit made of bunches of the finest tobacco leaves, and not the least bit nude. Like Queen Eve she was dressed in leaves, but not a single fig leaf, more like a full gown of hundreds of full, silky, soft, golden, cured, shining rustica leaves giving her the perfume and appearance of a gold gilted angel of highest bearing. But to the foreigners she was just wearing cheap 'leaves' when everyone else was wearing hide clothes. If fact she was dressed in the greatest luxurious material befitting her rank that her people knew - fitted in the essence of the Great Spirit.

Highest quality aged tobacco leaf is like that:- delicate but tough, softer than chamois, shiner and more golden than polished silk, lighter than feathers and perfumed above rose petal. By way of peace she offered the strangers bunches of tobacco leaf and kept them calm until her father could deal with them. In time she became an important diplomat for her people abroad - but too late, the propaganda set, their media reporting it was as if the American Natives invited rape.

Nothing could have been further from the truth.

Enough for now. Honour your ancestors today good people. Blessings P'sDog.

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The forum may have lost a few members lately, but the appearance of the members of clan Uri has more than filled the void. I love reading this topic so much, it brightens my days. I find myself craving this snuff, and I've never even seen it before.

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Respect Katu! Respect P's Dog and the Pat Uri clan! It's been a pleasure learning about snuff history through reading your posts P's dog, love it!

Been trying out indian snuffs lately, bought a few in my last order but never really tried them until the past week since first sniffing the Dholakia White out of the little tub led to a coughing fit and the 6 Photo Kailash and Special either made my nose run like crazy or would cause me to clog up >< anyhow, I've found that I'm really digging the floury, sweet, fish food sort've smell from the Dholakia White now that I've properly tried it, probably wouldn't be using it often at all though since can't take it properly pinched, in a boxcar or off the back of my hand since its sooo fine. Only way for me is using the "plugging method." (Aka getting the desired amount of snuff onto your thumb, plugging it into the desired nostril creating a seal and then breathing fairly deeply through your nose[since your other nostril is left open] a few times, after that you'll find that most/all of your snuff on your thumb has gone up the beak no problem.) Very nice stuff. Got a tin of White Elephant too and found it very similar to the Dholakia in scent though weaker but on the plus side it's coarser and easier to take.

Kailash and Special have an incensey type smell to it that brings thoughts of India and temples when snuffed, certainly a pleasant scent and very unique compared to all other snuffs I've had so far. Not much to say about them though since they don't sit well with my nose at all so I haven't really been able to enjoy them. I think mentholated/cooling sensation type ones don't work with my somewhat sensitive sinuses as I had the same thing with Toque Blueberry Menthol. The Kailash and Special are also really moist and clumpy! Blocks up my nose easily, might be better if I dried it out a bit perhaps... Not to mention the mess that they can cause when you use them.

Anyway sorry about the rambling. That's what I've been up to when it comes to snuffing lately.

Was also thinking of placing another order sometime soon, will have to get more Old paris. Perhaps some "SP"s and some Schmalzers since I've never tried them. The selection of Dutch snuffs also looks very interesting. Also want to look more into the WoS range as I've only got their IHT.22. Also keen on trying an American Scotch type snuff since I like toasts. Will also be considering the artisan snuffs recommended by P's Dog. So many snuffs to try, not enough coin. Not to mention this import duty stuff is a pain in the ass. So I guess I'll be aiming to get things in bags wherever I have the option to? I hope I'm as fortunate with my order as you've been lately P's Dog.

Sounds like you've got some nice snuffs on hand Nibbana! I'm a box car man myself, pinching whilst effective is a bit messy. Lately i've been using one of those self applicators from Southern America which makes for an completely different experience! And by that I mean you can really load those puppies up so to speak :lol:

IDL is Samuel Gawith snuffs yes?? I've tried their Kendal D and Kendal D Light and whilst the flavours/aromas were lovely the fibrous grind completely fucks my nose. Doesn't have the silky texture of the F&T, WOS or Toque Toasts. But yeah i'm with you WOS IHT and F&T HDT are on an entirely different level to Toque. Toque has none of the complexity of the two former. If you haven't worked it out already I love my Toasts :wub:

I'm in the market for one of those self applicator pipes myself since I do love the bendy straw method on those special occasions, I find it's a great way to evenly coat the inside of your nose with a plume of a snuff, it never gets too far up either to cause too much discomfort.

I love my toasts too katu! I find the drier/finer snuffs tend to sit well with my nose and they don't ever seem to clog me up compared to some other snuffs that I have on hand which is a shame. Santo Domingo comes to mind especially.. would love to use it a lot more but it just blocks up nose within a couple uses or if I take a moderate size boxcar. Problem with the fine ones is that they're a lot trickier to snuff and I sneeze like 3/4s of the time when using them, when that happens I tend to get a blocked nose for like 2 minutes before it clears up and I can enjoy the sweet sweet aroma of whatever fine goods is in my beak so no problem really. Other than the ears of those around me because I can sneeze pretty damn loud!

Also I got my sample of Nunu from the SAB shop and I must say it's one of the easiest snuffs I've ever taken. It's fine, comparable to toasts but it has quite a lot of stems in it. It just goes right up there and sticks, never goes too far which is great. It's got a musky, woody sort of aroma to it that I can't describe. Interesting forsure. There's not much but I'm keen on administering it the traditional way, aka huge blasts up each nose with a pipe maybe with the assistance of the gf... pretty expensive compared to the price of other snuffs but worth it if you're curious about trying real nunu - assuming it's the real thing and if you're already buying something from the shop.

One of Pat Uri's mates was visiting us from Peru and he said "Buena yayo usted debe sentirse de su pene" which I think he would mean that good tobacco snuff you should feel from your very bowels - or something similar in comparison to that.

Makes me think of an experience my gf had the other day! After a couple quick blasts of toque rustica up each nostril a strong build up of nausea was felt a few minutes into meditation... and lets just say it ended with the most intense purge she's ever felt in her life... both ends... that night she went on to have vivid dreams and a nightmare too... she says that it's definitely quality stuff. No wonder it comes with a warning.

Next day she woke up feeling cleansed, refreshed, energetic and extremely hungry. :P The past month she was considering doing a kambo session with some lady but has decided to put it off for a good while now. I don't question why hah!

The forum may have lost a few members lately, but the appearance of the members of clan Uri has more than filled the void. I love reading this topic so much, it brightens my days. I find myself craving this snuff, and I've never even seen it before.

Happy to provide a sample of some snuff since I've got too much for myself... Pm me if you're keen to try some.

Anyway, good day to you all! Speak soon.

Love~

Nibbana

Edited by Nibbana
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Once again much respect for your ever enlightening posts P's Dog.

Appreciate the offer of a little bag of snuff to get one through. Last time I ran out, which I tend not to make a habit of :wink: , I made a rather tasty chewing tobacco from a pack of Champion rolling tobacco, some apple juice, palm sugar, maldon sea salt and a wee bit of food grade Calcium Hydroxide. Was tasty stuff.. Wat's your technique for snuff making from cigarettes? . Did you add some Sodium Bicarbonate and/or salt?? Any flavours?

So Nibbana rides the elusive white elephant B). Nice man. The whites are what India does best IMHO. Fuck are they fine though. They make an English Toast seem course. The Dholokia White and White Elephant are two of my staples. Nothing matches them for in terms of Nicotine when it comes to snuffs. They have more of a sting than the nice burn associated with quality Toasts and Scotches. An almost fishy smell, I also detect an ever so slight tinge of Musk which is typical of Indian snuffs. I tend to move onto the whites when I feel that my snuff use has been creeping up to much. Man they pack a punch, lovely stuff :) .

Man we small but dedicated band of Snuff aficionados should get a Snuff trading thread happening, now that would be cool B) .

Once again thanks for the offer P's Dog, I may indeed take you up on it one day. :wub:

Much love to all yall Snuff Heads! This thread is rockin..

Katu

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Oh yeah Nibbana if you didn't already know which u probably do the reason Nunu has a some what different texture is that I believe it contains the toasted inner bark of a Theobroma sp. There is some speculation as to which actual species though... T.bicolor perhaps?? Perhaps P's Dog knows more..

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PhaemonsDog here! With a big ah-ah-chooo! to all. Quite a few mixed points here:-

Green nunu - that is unusual. By green you mean it is literally green? That's a serious fault in tobacco curing. It means that while the leaf was just picked - and not ripe enough to be picked - still had active chlorophyll - then it was hit with dry heat killing the enzymes and fixing the colour and the chemistry. Happens when stuff meant to be fire or flue cured, which are picked green, is left out in very hot sunlight, on hot rocks or roof tin and dries green. The green colour is permanent and won't "run" with aging.

Sometimes this is done on purpose to make candela cigar "fancy" wrappers a feature of late Sixties Dixie and Florida cigars. (You can't watch an American Western movie without Pat Uri giving a live commentary on the anachronisms, mistakes, errors, etc. they make in period costumes, weapon models, farm implements, bloody horse and cattle details, etc. etc. and, especially, tobacco. e.g. John Wayne always smoking Marlboro decades before cigarette tobacco was invented. Spotting candela in the wrong period or location another.) Candela is from distinct "new" hybrids Georgia-Florida Shade Wrapper out of Round Tip X Big Cuban to Dixie L-4, No.63, Florida 15 and C74. Please don't ask for anymore information Pat Uri will go on for days about it. I only mention it because this was when blue mould infection threatened world tobacco production and they bred Australian native Nicotiana debneyi into the successive tabacum lines for resistance saving the industry for capitalism. One of the only times it was acknowledged Australia had native tobaccos other than the all embracing term Australia's Nicotiana suaveolens.

No.63 is most favoured for candela wrappers as it stays "tender" after fixing. To fix green colour - and growers of all herbs might like to prick their ears up on this - the leaf is flue dried to a final of 60 degrees centigrade over 3 days raising the temperature half a degree per hour. Then heat stopped and humidity let in until conditioned back.

As I said it is only done with wrapper, never filler, binder or any other sort of tobacco as the product is still very susceptible to Lasioderma infection. Perhaps someone is hoping the ash addition to green nunu will prevent spoilage.

Fraid I won't know which cacao ash is used - Pat Uri might - he got "family" in Venezuela - the dirty old man! Certainly the Matse's People haven't allowed contact with the outside until only recently, but obviously Pat Uri seems to get on with anyone. But I do recall one very mysterious thing he once said with a cheeky grin that theobroma sounds awfully close to theiodora - tee! hee! hee! Shaman do like their puns and word puzzles - but he might explain himself yet.

Personally I suppose at a pinch you could incinerate cacao nibs for their ash - potash is potash, but calcium sulfate content may vary a bit. Such conditioners are pretty necessary if you are gonna keep snuff free flowing in humid conditions.

Making cigarettes into snuff is a sad story really. I only did it because I had to and only mentioned it to point out how much nicotine is destroyed by smoking. When I could have smoked a packet I found snuffing two was enough. Cigarette tobacco isn't real tobacco so nothing you can add changes anything. I just left a couple on the dashboard and when dry powdered it in my fingers - and got no nicotine rush, just fluoro yellow snot. It was an emergency.

The only real tobacco commercially available is Log Cabin made by who else but Imperial. Its sauced to the max so requires no addition.

It makes a real snus however. 10% by weight sodium bicarbonate is boiled with minimum water - microwave will do - so sodium carbonate is formed. Pour it hot onto the Log Cabin seal and keep warm by wrapping it in a towel. Overnight it cools and by morning has the smell and punch of good snus. It should just be moist like good potting mix. At $60 for a week or two supply again it is an emergency technique.

Yeah - I always find using rustica for a few days leads to minimum sleep and the most incredible lucid dreaming. The dreams are complex but quite connected stories, the colours bland and the figures shadowy but very real at the time. Oddly I often dream I am listening to music - not just melodies but complete worked compositions, full chord structures and orchestrations, with rudimentary lyrics, as if a new album. Sometimes new electrica - but last night dreamt two students had discovered a forgotten record in my collection of Japanese folk music they played for me and wanted to write an assignment about featuring a couple of the songs. The dream is so real and easily recalled, I write the music down and search the internet to see if I can find it amazed that it isn't some sort of memory. But just like the Icaros or "peyote songs" they always turn out to be original compositions from my subconscious - to be secular about it. Usually it takes me days to come up with original stuff in my awake state, and I use the usual formulas known to musicians to squeeze out a song - I'm not that creative. It really is amazing!

How do you folks go?

OK and bye. PhaemonsDog.

Edited by Pat Uri
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