Comparison Trichocereus Riomizquensis & PC Pachanoi

[M S Smith]

Naw Gerbil, that's not a PC, and not only just because of the long spines, but it has nearly flat ribs. I can't recall ever seeing a mature PC not somewhat indented above the areole, or bulging below, or whatever it's called, and the areole being somewhat at an angle in relation to the column. The spine arrangement and thickness are all wrong too. There's maybe one or two more things that make me think yours isn't a PC and I won't be satisfied till you post a photo of the main column...a good ID shot of a mature tip. The ubiquitous PC is so unique from other Trichocereus (beyond T. bridgesii IMO) that one can't help but be able to tell it apart from others with ease. I'd imagine many would agree.

Check out these two photos of the PC, one of KT's and one of mine.

~Michael~

[gerbil]

I've limited access to a quality camera for a while, will have to go through older photos. Have a little camera buts it's being difficult.

This is the best I can do for now for a tip.

Above photos are the first plant in this next photo. There are 3 plants, from 3 different sources, the furthest one in the photo is the 'fremantle clone'. All look essentially the same, flowers synchronise and look the same from brief observations, don't appear to cross pollinate with each other, accept donor pollen, large fruits.

Edited June 14, 2015 by gerbil

[M S Smith]

Wow, that does look like the PC, but the plant in your first photo just doesn't seem to match up to what you have in this newest series. Are you sure they are the same plant?

In your first photo where on the limb are those areoles and long spines? I'm thinking at the swollen base for a couple reasons. Anybody else familiar with such long spines on a PC? I'm really interested in getting a closer look at the spine formation on the spiney looking areoles on the lower left hand side of the first photo in the series.

So the whole question here really has been, are there other PC? As of the time of this post Trout, who is the originator of the term "PC" and intended it to mean the "Predominant Cultivar," says that "perhaps PC should refer to the 'predominant clone' since it does seem to be produced entirely vegitatively despite it freely flowering & readily hybridizing." I'm open to the idea that there are "other PC," but I fight with the idea that these plants are products of an original single and distinct clone, and that possibly this progenitor is the source of many of the plants that look like the PC and which others might regard as "other PC."

I'd love if such a question can actually be answered, but it probably can't at this point, especially with so many different known PC hybrids having spread far and wide. Just musings I suppose.

~Michael~

Edited June 14, 2015 by M S Smith

[Hukstable]

Here is a pic taken from the trichocereus appreciation page of a PC "grown in less than ideal conditions". What do you think? Has some long spines.

[gerbil]

I've been meaning to post the long spines for a while now, was just never happy with the photos as they didn't portray them very well and was unsure as to what I was trying to ID or compare it with and the limitations and mountain of work needed for just a snapshot in taxonomy.

I thought someone else would definitely talk about it, the only thing I vaguely remember is you or trout possibly saying we know the PC had something with a long yellow spine in it's lineage. I need to dig that reference up.

Yes absolutely the long spine shows up at the swollen plant bases, generally around 5-10" from soil level, I call them secondary or tertiary spines. The areoles can also be quite proud/extruded, full and fluffy similar to newer growth hardened peruvianus.

In certain sections, array of spines can exhibit swollen spine base like Super Pedro and what EG was talking about with cuzcoensis in the 'all about girth' thread http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41478

All three of the plants in the picture exhibit the long spine to an extent.

I've got other big PC types in slightly different microclimates that I haven't checked yet, their access is getting a little difficult.

Yep am sure they are the same plant. I've a heap of other good stem and flower photos but I can't differentiate what stem is what out of the three plants as i'm trying to stick with 1 plant for the moment to save confusion. Will grab some more shots.

Edited June 14, 2015 by gerbil

[M S Smith]

Here is a pic taken from the trichocereus appreciation page of a PC "grown in less than ideal conditions". What do you think? Has some long spines.image.jpg

Oh, I agree that's a PC, but the spine length on those doesn't seem so drastic. How long do those measure? Anyhow, the debate wasn't how long spines on PC can get, but rather was the plant in gerbil's first post a PC, and then whether or not the plant then qualified as another PC, thereby validating the idea that there are "other PC." Ironically enough, in the end those long spines don't say anything as to whether or not there are "other PC," but only that PC plants can have a different spine habit on swollen bases. Thanks for the details gerbil.

~Michael~

Edited June 14, 2015 by M S Smith

[zed240]

I have a couple of big centrals forming on the bottom of one of my "Australian PC" plants too. This plant has the grey/white flower hairs of a "PC".

There's one spine that's an inch long right at ground level and another about 3 areoles higher that's about half an inch long.

Top of plant

[gerbil]

Struggling to get representative shots and clear. This more along the lines of what you wanted MS?

They should blow up a little larger in the gallery by right clicking and selecting 'large' or view image in browser.

Base of column coming out of long spine base

Mid column areole sections, various 'types' of areoles/spines.

Edited June 14, 2015 by gerbil

[kakti]

Never mind...can't seem to upload pictures

Edited June 16, 2015 by kakti