Classic move from gov

[DeadStar]

Give us a drug task force.

Take our drug treatment and prevention programs.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/06/01/govt-to-cut--8m-from-drug-programs.html

Edited June 1, 2015 by DeadStar

[Distracted]

That's pretty comedic.

Like a sad sad clown who's an alcoholic and beats his children.

[nothinghead]

Makes perfect sense. How are cops and pollies going to get their cuts and kickbacks from treatment centres?

[DiscoStu]

how else are they going to pay for the ad campaign that's a carbon copy of the failed campaign they did 8(?) years ago

oh look the ad campaign cost exactly as much as shutting down treatment programs, happy coincidence that

[ghosty]

prevention programs are built into every human and other animal. Ability to educate yourself / learn from experience, and make choices that are not totally destructive to the self and those around them.

drug treatment = weak people.

Addicted = wake up to yourself, get a life.

ice / methylamphetamines task force better funded, wheres the problem?

Do we all want to live in some form of compton?

I'd like to be able to walk to the store to buy milk without some pencil junky mother smack my bitch, accuses me of draining the petrol from their hotwater system or some other obsurd shit that the moon told them.. Whats worse still is I cant even understand the morons with their meth eaten teeth.

F%%K that S^^T

bad spirit that stuff.

Edited June 1, 2015 by ghosty

[DeadStar]

Meth is a powerful drug that consumes peoples lives. Some of those people are broken, weak willed, addicted and are going to need more than someone telling them to wake up to themselves.

Or we could just put them in jail and forget about it until theres a problem with overcrowding in prisons. Wait a minute, there already is

[-RC-]

National Task force into ice = we want a piece of that pie

Our government is broken, and all it took to break it was money...

As far as addicts and any sentiment against them, all I can say is these people are some of the most in need. So many of our highly dependent brothers and sisters are so because of shocking abuse they have experienced, or are at the very least successful products of our fucked up society.

Problem drug use is a health issue, and the law has sweet fuck all to do with it. We were conned a long time ago into thinking we should lock ourselves up because we seek pleasure. Unfortunately we are still swallowing the same rhetoric hook, line and sinker to this very day. A gaol term with violent criminals for being sick is not going to cure that sickness. It will only exacerbate and spread it.

[tangled]

Yep people who abuse drugs often have underlying mental health and trauma issues and they use drugs as a way of coping.

But instead of getting help for the underlying causes they get treated as criminals and locked up.

It's just wrong,

[ghosty]

I don't speak from a perspective of no experience. I have gone through all too much crap in life, as those who know me will know. Do I need to obtain an unwanted drug habit to get sympathy and pitty? I don'' t know, I never seeked it =) I'd shoot myself long before I'd ever consider showing my life that level of contempt. Nobody with a drug habbit can be helped. It's up to them, and only them. They must change their lifestyle themselves. follow their own heart. Sure drugs like herion can be beyond painful living with other drugies makes it tougher. I do not believe any other drug is physically addictive. No way. just destroy brain chemistry, lower serotonin making people think they "need it".

To provide this help (oh poor you, it's not your fault you've got a problem etc. etc. etc.) just allows them to justify their own bad choices. pure and simple.

[nothinghead]

prevention programs are built into every human and other animal. Ability to educate yourself / learn from experience, and make choices that are not totally destructive to the self and those around them.

drug treatment = weak people.

Addicted = wake up to yourself, get a life.

I reckon we don't go far enough with it. I say outlaw doctors and hospitals because humans have the capacity to treat themselves and only weak pricks don't do it (and because they're weak at self-treatment they deserve to suffer and die). Seriously, though, if you're under the delusion that programmes are never useful in helping people overcome addiction, you need to do a bit of reading or head down to a treatment centre to have a chat with the employees. Great for you if you've been able to beat addiction without any outside help, but not everyone has the resources or ability to do that and IMO they shouldn't be cast out of society for being unfortunate enough to become addicted to something detrimental to them.

ice / methylamphetamines task force better funded, wheres the problem?

 

Do we all want to live in some form of compton?

Because the ice "epidemic" is largely a media myth (not saying ice isn't a horrible substance that can ruin your life) and task forces in the past have been notoriously dismal at curbing drug production/importation/abuse.

Why would Australia turn into "some form of Compton"? 1) The biggest problem in Compton was crack, not ice. That was introduced by CIA funded contras programmes, so more government funding conceivably would have gotten more crack into the area. 2) Compton is an economically and racially segregated area of L.A. that comes with a plethora of inherent problems that are not caused by ice (or crack, or other drugs of addiction). 3) Compton is an area of a large city, Australia is a large nation - that's a significantly different scale of comparison.

[DeadStar]

Im glad that you are such a well adjusted being ghosty and were able to kick your addiction

But what if addicts never get bored of getting high and just burn out. I know,i know one less junkie. But i dont feel that way.

I have meet people who only realise the damage they have caused to themselves and loved ones once they were forced into treatment programs

[ghosty]

It's not about being some "well adjusted" being LOL. It's about having self respect, strong will, education and a will to want to enjoy life. To fight for it. I have lost lots of mates, good people back in 1998 to heroin in the heroin craze that swept many a good person to their death due to their natural human curiosities. I have also gone through the courts many times for cannabis. Whilst in such courts, I have seen people shake up that meth shit, sell it to kid's at a train station and walk out with sympathy. Then, when it came to me.. whats to be done about this person destroying our community by smoking harmless cannabis in the privacy of his own home, behind his own closed doors, out of public view, for the good of himself and those around him and has never sold drugs in his lifetime.

I have also endured the pain of having a methhead live next door to me for some 2 years. abuse that i could not have even imagined 24 hours a day. Leading to PTS for over 3 years after i got rid of that person. That stuff is hell on earth. I will never offer sympathy for such crap and the idiots that use it. I'm about health and improving life for all. yeah, we could play games with this by debating semantics over the stimulant compound "crack", "meth" strange stimulant analogue etc. but to me that class of compounds have proven itself on many levels as demonic materials when in the human organism. Besides, none of you here know me and what I've been through at the end of the day. If you did, you wouldnt perceive me the way you do. All good.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Ghosty, I totally understand your point of view. Some of my mates who lived thru that era hold the same values, and I'll never shake them of them, and that is ok.

But, would you hold the same values if your child or partner went off the rails? Where does the sympathy start and where does the hate end? It's a very shitty situation and I'm not having a dig at all. I was just very curious of what you thought.

[2XB]

It's not about being some "well adjusted" being LOL. It's about having self respect, strong will, education and a will to want to enjoy life. To fight for it. I have lost lots of mates, good people back in 1998 to heroin in the heroin craze that swept many a good person to their death due to their natural human curiosities. I have also gone through the courts many times for cannabis. Whilst in such courts, I have seen people shake up that meth shit, sell it to kid's at a train station and walk out with sympathy. Then, when it came to me.. whats to be done about this person destroying our community by smoking harmless cannabis in the privacy of his own home, behind his own closed doors, out of public view, for the good of himself and those around him and has never sold drugs in his lifetime.

I have also endured the pain of having a methhead live next door to me for some 2 years. abuse that i could not have even imagined 24 hours a day. Leading to PTS for over 3 years after i got rid of that person. That stuff is hell on earth. I will never offer sympathy for such crap and the idiots that use it. I'm about health and improving life for all. yeah, we could play games with this by debating semantics over the stimulant compound "crack", "meth" strange stimulant analogue etc. but to me that class of compounds have proven itself on many levels as demonic materials when in the human organism. Besides, none of you here know me and what I've been through at the end of the day. If you did, you wouldnt perceive me the way you do. All good.

you could say everything you've said right here about alcohol, except for that fact that it's affects are on a much larger scale and it is not illegal.... It's not good just to buy any shit the government tries to sell you, its a load of shit and they know it.

[FragmentedSanity]

I find it odd when a self confessed drug user gets all negative about another drug. Be it ciggys v alcohol, weed v meth, heroine v lsd. whatever... its all much the same to me. Hell ive seen people go without coffee/ciggys get just as upset as a junkie who couldn't get their fix... weak people are waek, no matter what their reason...

...and if we are talking harm reduction, lets start with alcohol and sugar, by comparison meth is pretty minimal... but you arent going to get the masses supporting crackdowns on those anytime soon, so we get adds about people scratching holes in their body, trying to bash anyone who gets near em, and robbing their grandma to get their score. Yay for media brainwashing.

Me i love most things. Ive loved a few a bit much.

Love weed, hate ciggys. But each to their own. Love opoids and hallucinagens, not so big on stims, but hey if thats your thing then go for it.

Addiction sucks no matter the drug of choice.

As long as you can either,

a, hold down a job and pay for your drugs (or even stay on tne dole and manage a budget)

or

b, grow enough plants to support whatever habit you have

+ you dont hurt anyone else while your on them, then i dont see how any drug is any different than anything else. Do what you want.

Its all about being responsible for your own actions and your own life.

If you cant, then you should probably abstain and not mess it up for everyone else.

But sometimes people need help learning that lesson. If thats what a 'treatment program' were teaching then id be all for em.

Not having a dig at Ghostly at all, i reckon we are pretty much on the same wavelength with what they were saying. just found the take on stims being demonic to be odd. Ive seen some people messed up from it, sure, but IMO whatever 'drug' those people picked would have done much the same. If they lack the education and self restraint to begin with most drugs are a real slippery slope.

For those that have fallen down that slope, having help available is a much better option than waiting for them to crash and burn... even if i do think they should have had the brains to not get there in the first place!

[ghosty]

"But, would you hold the same values if your child or partner went off the rails?" To answer this you'd have to know my values as they pertain to meth in particular. Along with other drugs and also plants deemed to be "drugs".

Each "drug" / compound must be looked at on an individual basis, not one blanket "drug" system. Many compounds are considered drugs and depending on the dosage might not provide any noticeable change in a person's perception of themselves or those around them. They are medicinal materials. There are some that have effects a few people like, most of these are man-made.

1st, compounds that are a detriment to a community on any level should be regulated. Many compounds considered drugs are in fact of much benefit to a community.

2nd, compounds that are detriment to personal health (a much abused statement). Many compounds considered drugs are in fact of much benefit to a persons health.

If it's honestly good for people and community, it gets my support. I will fight for it.

If it's honestly bad for people and community it gets my opinion.

not based on bias books and other such... data.

I don't put a compound down because i saw it on some TV i don't have and would die of bordom to watch. I have had the fine honor of living next to one such meth-moron and I can tell you.. I dont have, harbour, or offer to other "hate" just my opinion. Sure it's different than the average re-types / re-spoken one. Sure it's unique etc. I dont however see it as a problem to anyone other than me. more-so nowa days as anyone can remove any honesty they like really easy. hit the "troll" button or some button to paint them what-ever color is desired.

As far as sympathy goes, crist, anyone that knows me knows full well, I go out of my way and do anything i can to help another person, animal, or nature system. Always at my expense. Sucks cant change that as it's just my nature. So, I hope you excuse me if my tollerance for some things is less than the zen one to some. Such as those who cry poor me, or im addicted etc. its because blah blah blah. it is just their way of excusing them selves in a socially accepted manner for their contempt for life. If you want something you fight for it right.. I don't feed it.

Edited June 2, 2015 by ghosty

[Distracted]

I don't like the idea of someone calling me a moron if I dose myself a chosen substance once every few years :/

But I guess i don't need to feel that way anyway because that person doesn't know me and if he or she judges me without knowing me they're not actually judging me but a preconceived idea of me.

[ghosty]

self confsed drug user. LOL what? I haven used drugs in 20 years.

I dont call people who choose for whatever reason to be a moron in some way once every few years. isnt that human nature? but thanks for taking my valid point miles n miles from its hometown called context

Edited June 2, 2015 by ghosty

[FragmentedSanity]

I think the meth moron Ghostly was talking about isnt the type that may indulge every so often.

Its the idiot that dosnet know when too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

We probably all know people like that, or have seen them.

ive had friends that had behaviours that worried the hell outa me, especially in relation to meth..., even if they didnt get to the classic meth head stage. Ie toothless brainless twits that would rob you blind in the blink of an eye and not think twice about it... unless they thought they might have missed something, then they think about robbing you again. Paranoid, delusional and dangerous.

We all have different experiences, and different opinions. Mine leads me to beleve that all 'drugs' have the potential to be both bad and good. Ghostly seems to have had a real doozy of a time with people on meth, so much that they see it as worse than others. Even though they have lost friends to Heroine. Gotta respect their opinion as valid, even if it does fall in line with the government spin of the day.

Wont change my opinion overmuch, dont expect mine to change theirs. But im willing to listen, and can easily concede that meth has a really high potential for harm... but id class MDMA as a stim, and dont consider it to be evil. Ive also known truckers that used a bit of speed on their long hauls back in the day, and i felt safer with them being sharp on the road... also knew truckers who thought smoking weed was a good idea and barley managed to keep the rig on the road... but i dint think either should be banned.

Id ban idiots if i could!

In my experience Heroine was just as bad as meth, guess it depends on availability in your given location at times in your life.

But then I had bad experences living next door to alcholics and heroine addicts at different times, but was fortunate enough not to have to live near classic meth heads.

To me discussions like this are all about exchanging ideas... which aint much fun if everyones ideas are the same.

For me it will always come down to personal responsibility, and i can hardly ever agree with thinking that more regulation from the government is a good thing.

EDIT,

Ghostly, the self confessed drug user line was in reference to you mentioning using Pot and having legal dramas because of it.

You say youll fight for peoples rights to use that but stims are evil. I find that an interesting contradiction, as said based on my beliefs, that all things have merit if used properly, or potential harm if misused. Hope you weren't offended, it really wasn't meant that way! Sorry if it seemedmlime i was singling you out, but ive heard this kind of thing from lots of people over the years and have never really understood how they got to that position.

Edited June 2, 2015 by FragmentedSanity

[PhoenixSon]

government says amphetamines are bad mmmkay, then continues to dose children on obscene amounts of amphetamines at a stage where the brain and body are growing.

drugs are bad mkay when they arent taxing it

[ghosty]

herion is a dangerous one, very easy to die with powerful opiates. modifies or not. They also have the honor of being the only physically addictive compound on the known earth in my experiences. I have studied, observed and experienced the effects of all drugs and many not even known.

I can attest to this

1/ legal highs (analogues) are numerous and can pose very serious health effects and mental episodes. I consider them very dangerous. Potential fatal drop in blood pressure is just the start. my view - banned outright for other than medical science by those in industry.

2/ Plants (with some compounds such as some cactus etc.) with the exception of the poppy pose no danger to people and are medicine. they offer no drug value / trade / mass profits as only few people, curious and collectors want them. my view, legal in all respects If ever became utilized by more than the piss-ant % that would more than once or twice, a perhaps needed support group would arrise at no government cost. the people would be this such group. such as seen with some north american religious groups. no problems.

3/ Poppies , good question. can kill easy to those not in knowledge or seasonaly if used. some folk love em. perhaps some changes to laws i dont know. limit grow of so many. could pose problems this one.

4/ stimulant by structure analogues. such as mescaline, refer to 2/. analouges other than long history safe mescaline, known, or not yet known. research only. industry only

all other plants folks like to whine about and try banning - leave them alone. grown them respect them. no possible problem to anyone in reality.

Treatment programs, perhaps heroin. is there anything else thats really addictive? seriously?

Meth, production - zero tolerance. heavily targeted. Heavy punishments.

meth use, intervention / supported self help. heavily targeted.

Ok, you want to break free, be a bit silly every few years huh? well life is like that. I'm happy to chew mushrooms when i get like that. but some seek that euphoria dont they? I would consider perhaps MDMA or some such might be OK. I dont profess to know much about that material. tried only few times when young. Thought it loving, personally evolving, gentle, peaceful. not destructive to anyone round me. not party in any respect more like to the jungle. Cant say much about it and wont recommend it as i dont know enough to make an informed view. perhaps a option for those, who feel the need for some such chemical break? perhaps made by chemists and sold on script? I will leave that one to those who are better informed then myself.

[DeadStar]

Im sorry you had to live next to such people ghosty. I wouldnt wish that on anyone.

I have lived next to pissheaded that were a pretty rowdy bunch but atleast they all passed out around 3am. They eventually got evicted but not before have a massive bonfire party. The fire was kept alight for the night with weatherboard from the house and fence pailings.

After ready everything you have to say ghosty, i dont think you are a bad person, just the opposite but i still think if someone has a problem with meth, crack,heroin, cannabis or they just cant stop putting pingers up there butt. There should be resources available to these people to rid them of there demons.

[ghosty]

"government says amphetamines are bad mmmkay, then continues to dose children on obscene amounts of amphetamines at a stage where the brain and body are growing."

I agree. I dont agree with any such "medicine". Doc tried with me that shit few times.. as if.. like SSR LOL as iff, im happy as F*CK. you will never play with my brain chemistry!

The only pills you will ever find here is codeine. thats because i know it kills i cold if 20mg is taken first 4 hours of noticing a cold coming on.every few years i need it for that reason. most go to friends with headaches who take things for such.

I support plants, not pharmacology that has never well served me, let along provide good health.

[ghosty]

There should be resources available to these people to rid them of there demons."

Hell yeah!

there is, plants, you all know what's used for this 2 main ones. takes allot of courage, support of mates and others in the know. some guidance. not some stupid institute that proffesses to offer help when all they do is peddle some out-dated dribble from the times of "reefer madness" and expect me to respect them for attempting to fill my head with shit and twist my educated views. that will never happen. I stay true to myself and my views or die. so far, cost me a HELL OF ALLOT. I dont sellout my self.

Plants are the help that people like to speak about. I'm living proof more than 3 times over in 40 years. Not synthetic options.

I laugh whenever i read or hear "has a problem with cannabis" LOL yeah, right. legal one perhaps.

I hear ya about beer / alcohol though. very bad for health, communities etc. not good at all. never understood that one. dont get alone with alco's either does anyone? they all have their issues sure. I dont compare, just observe. Name another compound that takes at least 3 days to work it's way out of your system (noticable effects to wear off) whats that tell you? body handles it well? no.

then i refer to many of histories lessons, bath salts face eating. Russian sleep project. soldiers on meth to keep them edgy / over-tiered / parranoid / insaine = everything you want in a soldier..

Following on, i look at histories great citys and peoples, their art, recent sciene, and add 2 and 2. what conclusion starts to emerge? the obvious of course =)

"After ready everything you have to say ghosty, i dont think you are a bad person" Thanks Deathstar, Thats so nice to hear. not common. obviously. should keep me going another 10 years or so..

=) opinions dont win me social awards. and truth costs me almost everything. Thanks.

Edited June 2, 2015 by ghosty