Aboriginals and Kava

[goodude]

Gday all. I watched a documentary on sbs recently that talked about aboriginals traditionally using kava root for spiritual/medicinal uses. I dont really know much about this stuff but i always thought it was a mauri thing. apparently it exists or has existed in aus for a long time. i kinda presumed it was native to nz. does anyone know what tribes (or at least what regions) this practice was taking place?

i believe the aboriginal culture is threatened and knowledge about it should be shared.

aboriginals use all sorts of bush medicine. i am friends with an elder and we went camping/gold prospecting a while back. one thing i remember is he talked about a plant that the huntsmen would chew the leaves from to give them energy. my thoughts is that this plant is a part of the sida family.

sorry if my post is all over the place.

talk soon

[Matt1208]

I know the Fijian people drink/use kava on a daily basis and have for a very very long time, I personally have never heard of aboriginals or mauri using it, though that doesn't mean they haven't.

[planthelper]

ok, let's try to make sense of all of this...

aboriginals, never used kava (piper methysticum) in the distant past, but have and still use it now, since we Australians have good contact with the people of the Polynesian triangle.

kava did never grow in oz!

but, maori of nz, have used another piper (piper auritrum?) for medicinal properties...

the leaves you mention, which give aboriginal hunters energy, is pituri (dubiosia hopwoodii), a plant native to oz.

if aboriginals in the distant past, have used sida, I don't know, neither do I know if any of the sidas are native to oz.

[goodude]

really, thx ph. pituri ay? wild tobacco? not arguing but are u sure? looks like the only active poison in there is nicotine and that is not a stimulant. perhaps the pituri plant has other alkaloids these tribes were seeking out? so no kava plant or similar is native to aus ay?and im pretty certain that theres a bunch of sidas that are native.

cheers

[Francois le Danque]

Just because someone says 'it gives me energy' doesn't mean it's a psychostimulant (which nicotine certainly is).

and I thought pituri also contained tropanes like atropine..

[goodude]

im starting to think this is not the plant the elder was referring too. his english was good and im pretty sure he poined out pituli on a differant occasion. and the word around here is that pituli is poisonous. i found this kinda interesting http://prehistoricdrugs.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/the-aboriginal-drug-pituri-2/

[planthelper]

maybe your elder's energy giving leaf was, either Catha edulis or erythroxylum coca, both have been in cultivation in oz since, I guess 100 years ago.

the british, tried to cultivate coca plants in Australia, in hope of making a big buck, but the plantations failed. Catha or beter said, qat or mira, have probably been introduced by Arabian people, into oz, the biggest trees are said to originate from the perth area...

[Dreamwalker.]

maori of nz, have used another piper, Kawakawa, Macropiper excelsum

NZ does not have Kava as a native, Fijians do use it for ceremony (can be purchased at petrol stations, they prefer beer and lots of it to the wee hours of the morning, had a few sleepless nights with the boys), as one Fijian said to me alcohol is a drug of war, Kava is a plant of peace, namely because after drinking heaps of the earth tasting stuff from a coconut shell being passed around, your legs cease to function, you go to get up and fall over. NZ piper not the same, the leaves make a good herbal tonic and is sold in health stores, grows wild in the bush under story. Very common. I prefer Kava.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Dreamwalker

[blog]

Is their anyway of getting fresh[ish] kava in australia these days and what of legality?

Lets say a large family return home to Australia from fiji, Maybe 10 adults and so 20kg of Kava. I presume they can't sell the Kava to me, but they can share it with me. Is there an easy or well known route of obtaining kava from legal personal importers that may be common and above board?

[goodude]

not sure mate. its probly still illegal and so becareful or smart.

[Cubism]

Is their anyway of getting fresh[ish] kava in australia these days and what of legality?

Lets say a large family return home to Australia from fiji, Maybe 10 adults and so 20kg of Kava. I presume they can't sell the Kava to me, but they can share it with me. Is there an easy or well known route of obtaining kava from legal personal importers that may be common and above board?

Theres a few people on ebay selling kava. I've no idea about the quality though.

[goodude]

dont order it man its importing an illegal substance. at least i think its illegal. probly a federal offence too. my advice, just get the seeds (they may not be illegal) and figure it out from there.

[katu]

Indigenous Australia did not use Piper.methysticum traditionally. Some time back(we're talking decades not centuries) there was a cultural exchange between the indigenous clans of northern Arnhem land and the western pacific islanders. It was then that SOME of the aboriginal clans of Arnhem land were introduced to Kava. For a time it was considered to savoir of sorts, an alternative to alcohol. Their were indigenous run legal kava huts of sorts in some of the communities. Unfortunately it quickly became a drug of abuse and the government and the clans themselves moved to stamp it out but as we know all prohibition does is force things underground. There is now a black market kava trade in Arnhem land from the pacific island and Kava is selling for 10 times the price it was when they had legal huts.

With regards to import it is illegal but you can still bring back some on your person legally declared if its clean enough for customs when returning from the pacific islands.

Also P.methysticum doesn't produce seeds and can only be propagated through vegetative means.

Edited June 8, 2014 by katu

[lofty86]

As far as I knew the South Sea Islanders brought it over when they came to work on north queensland cane farms. years back in mackay there were preservation efforts to re-establish plants from the old eimeo farmhouse/kanaka hut into the botanical gardens. the plants were vandalised and the old farmhouse land was developed. Cane farmers allowed there Kanakas to grow Kava, sweet potatoes, etc on there land and theres still sites were the south sea islander community harvest from in the area, Theres also a Kava hut at the botanical gardens were they do there thing a few times a year but its not open to the general public.

I know after a time they tried to send all the Islanders back (ironic after half of them were enslaved) and to remain here many headed into the bush to hide out in Aboriginal settlements.

[fydesvindico]

maybe your elder's energy giving leaf was, either Catha edulis or erythroxylum coca, both have been in cultivation in oz since, I guess 100 years ago.the british, tried to cultivate coca plants in Australia, in hope of making a big buck, but the plantations failed.

I was aware of erythroxylum australe, but hadn't heard of coca in oz.

..interesting

[tarenna]

I have worked with a few folk from Arnhem Land. The story of kava in that area is pretty tragic. As mentioned previously things went downhill pretty fast in terms of abuse of kava after its introduction as a (purported) good alternative to alcohol. I met a lady who previously used lots of kava. She essentially abandoned her children for kava. Her hair fell out and little has returned (after about 15 years of abstinence). I have met a few other crew who have the crocodile skin and listlessness that develops following prolonged chronic kava abuse. I have watched a few folk sorting out some pretty big kava deals.... but they involved the Fijian stuff - not the New Caledonian business.... their loss :-)

Personally I strongly believe that kava is far preferable to ethanol (from both a short and long-term perspective), but without efforts upon introduction to build respect and good practices surrounding its use, there will inevitably be problems.

I would dearly love to be able to enjoy some primo New Caledonian kava instead of booze, but sadly I am unable to legally do this (or have to fly to the islands and return with my 2kg....)

[Cubism]

dont order it man its importing an illegal substance. at least i think its illegal. probly a federal offence too. my advice, just get the seeds (they may not be illegal) and figure it out from there.

I should have said its from Australian sellers. Obviously I ain't suggesting anyone try importing it via ebay. Its also available in certain shops/markets in Australia.

[blog]

I should have said its from Australian sellers. Obviously I ain't suggesting anyone try importing it via ebay. Its also available in certain shops/markets in Australia.

I think technically you can't buy kava in australia, as that is purchasing a scheduled4 substance without prescrption and possession of s4 substance without prescription.

But that is the oddity with the kava laws. If you can legally import 2kg how can you then simultaneously have a possession offence. If i'm found in poession of kava must I have proof of my personal imporatation or am I guilty of an offence.

I'd have to think police dont really care about this kava stuff except with large undeclared imports . NT & WA laws are more strict from distant memory due to the aboriginal problem

Edited June 10, 2014 by blog

[lofty86]

Im pretty sure Kavas leagal in oz, just restricted. most pharmacies and health food shops sell homeopathic kava preparations off the shelf, dont think ive seen any products containing any more than / equivelent to 2500mg so i figure thats the standard, im not going to mention names but theres more than one australian online herbal retailer who sell larger (up to 1kg) at a time, but it cant be found on there sites via google search so i figure thats a grey area, can find it at the markets in Cairns, and ive also seen at the happy herb shop (in much smaller quantaties) from time to time.

[goodude]

word on the street is that kava originating from tonga is superior

[planthelper]

Vanuatu, kava has got a very good reputation as well, but even more important than locality, is from which parts of the plant the kava comes from.

it's simple, the young (thin roots) are the best, followed by thicker roots, and the thickest, fattest roots (in diameter) are the weakest.

from than onwards it's, the very bottom of the plant which get's used, but this type of kava get's refused already by serious drinkers.

unfortunately, this above ground kava, is very often the only kava, which we can get our hands on.

this happens as well because of the price difference, many traders are not willing to pay a premium for the good stuff.

once the kava got pounded, it's close to impossible to say, from which part of the plant, the kava came from, but mostly the good root kava get's sold, as dry roots, and not in powder form, so one can see it's the good stuff.

[Darklight]

I know I'm being a pedant, and I know this thread has been pushed off the front page, but it's been driving me nuts

"Aboriginals and Kava" Which Aboriginals and Kava. And when?

That's like saying "Europeans and Kava". Almost meaningless, because of the cultural, historic and linguistic diversity. Serbians and Kava? Proto-Indo-European use of kava in the Czech states during the last Ice Age?

Was the documentary more specific than that? If not, how bloody annoying