How to induce flowering in cacti, hormones, gibberellic acid, photoperiodism, plant biostimulants etc

[DeadStar]

I see what you did there ;-)

[SayN]

shame them...

[highdesertcacti]

Hey Auxin,

to answer your question, once in february and once in march, i dissolved 2 tblspn' s(i know, REAL scientific) of msg, and 1 tspn of sugar per gallon of water. i also ground up 1 adult multivitamin high in trace minerals and 1 calcium, per gallon. when the water cooled to around 110f i added white widow mycorrhizal powder as directed, and then watered regularly. i also watered with coconut juice a few times last spring as well, just randomly when i would buy a coconut with the kids anyway. i got alotta flowers this year, but again that could just be the weather we had in southern california from even last summer throughout (the pachanoi flowers at a local theme park were bustn this year as well). I think the sure way to get flowers is to grow your cactus to maturity. the hunt for hormone induced flowering is for early column flowering or hard-to-flower types like tbm or whatever. i just like having fun in my cactus garden and messing around. i bap'd my first areoles this summer as well this summer. that was pretty successful.

a few of my buddies on this forum, and some from other groups are gearing up to do some more calculated experiments this winter and spring with msg, which im sure they'll post on this thread, or i can share from others if/when i see stuff. cheers!

[highdesertcacti]

I did absolutely nothing this yr , no ferts no nada & also had an EPIC year of flowering & the sad truth is there's still more to come.

Dont be sad...

[mu!]

BUMP.

 

reason: great thread 

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Ok craaaazy thought 

 

if somebody is prepared to send me express post 10-20 tricho flowers (don't matter what kind but gotta be picked on first light) I will make a fermented plant juice (FPJ) out of then and redistribute it accross the community to members. 

 

Basically what this will do is concentrate all the growth hormones of the flower into a plant tonic that is bioavailable to the plants. It will be bioavailable to the plant because I assume lactobacillus is the one of the main fermenters (it's everywhere) and that stuff is garden/livestock gold... If I have calculated this wrong chem/bio heads please clip me across the ears...

 

so anyways, considering nobody is any closer than ideas like this I think it's worth a shot. I would also like to experiment with sprouted seed teas for enhanced seedling growth so if anyone is reaying this and could possibly be of help with 200-500g trich seeds + flowers that would be awesome community spirit 

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

I could just go knock off a heap of cereus flowers and fruit but I'd prefer to go trich > trich first experiments... And if it sounded like a joke, well it ain't, it's worth a shot so who can help out 

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Actually because they flower in the evening, just before they open would be the best time to get maximum concentrations of these enzymes and hormones! So not first light like a lot of other plants...

[mu!]

how would one go about preserving the flowers so they don't do what they normally do? which is readily decay.

[mu!]

@theuserformallyknownasd00d do you have any published research about fermented plant juices that you can point us to? this sounds very interesting and I'd love to know more

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Sure give me some time to find some stuff to post for you  maybe a day or two 

 

if you are looking for scholarly articles then you will be disappointed, I can only understand the layman texts.

 

jasmin would be a another flower packed with flowering hormones and grown regulators that could be worth trying.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Here is my entry into FPJ and the material that got me wanting to try this for cactus. I use FPJ on other plants and veggies with great results so trying wouldn't be a bad thing. I will get onto the cereus flowers this week.

 

if anyone try's this please have the decency to post some results and I'll do the same 

Edited August 15, 2016 by theuserformallyknownasd00d

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Well I'm boutsta have shitsloadsa trich flowers so this is definitely gonna be happening! I'll do a giveaway when the FPJ is ready and share it with my fav peeps 

 

[Change]

http://sci-hub.bz/10.1093/jxb/erl106

[Change]

dumping more relevant info

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoperiodism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florigen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_von_Sachs

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1533981/

 

 

 

 

[Trevyn]

I gave this some considerable thought once upon a time.  I take it floragen is still a hypothetical hormone that has not yet been identified molecularity?  (it's been a while.)

 

There are many anecdotal reports of the birth control pill working on some plants such as orchids and cacti, but doing entirely different things in other plants.  The pill was originally a synthetic hormone synthesized from plant sterols, So that there are some molecular similarities so there being some cross-activation territory isn't surprising.  I wonder if it isn't an as yet unidentified sterol acting with a hormone activity in the plants which causes the flowering.  

[zelly]

when it comes to columnar trichs, personally i think ya'll are barking up a dead tree.......

[Change]

^^If i had a garden like yours, i wouldn't be motivated to work it out either  but i dont, so i wont be giving up anytime soon. 

 

Its appears that its a signaling protein that activates the flowering mechanism in plants, Hopefully within a few months or so ill work out how to start stimulating the transcription factors and promoters for this protein and then the experiments will begin. Unfortunately because we are talking about a protein i dont think it will be possible to simply water it in to be uptaken by the roots, however if this protein could be isolated and injected, like for example insulin, external application may be a possibility. 

 

Next, heterografting experiments with uninduced C. moschata scions grafted to floweringC. maxima stocks and analysis of phloem sap with mass spectrometry confirmed that long-distance transport of FT protein was associated with the induction of flowering. Real-time RT-PCR analysis failed to detect the presence of FT mRNA in phloem sap of flowering plants, although transcripts for other genes, such as the well-characterized Cm-RPP16(Xoconostle-Cázares et al., 1999), could be readily detected.

 

These results supported the conclusion that FTL proteins, and not mRNA, play an important role in long-distance florigenic signaling and further suggested that FTL2 might be more important than FTL1 in this role. The observation that FTL proteins were detectable (albeit at extremely low levels) in stem vascular tissue of LD-grown plants, but undetectable in the phloem sap of these plants, led the authors to conclude that an additional mechanism acts to control the trafficking of the proteins from companion cells into the phloem translocation stream and that phloem loading of FT proteins is under photoperiodic control in the obligate SD C. moschata accession.

http://www.plantcell.org/content/19/5/1435.full 

 

 

For over a decade, uncovering how CO and FT are regulated by photoperiod has been a key goal in the understanding of how photoperiodic information determines flowering output, and considerable advancement has been made in understanding the photoperiodic regulatory network in Arabidopsis (Song et al., 2013). In this review, we will discuss our current understanding of photoperiodic input sensing, ambient temperature and light quality effects on photoperiodic flowering, the chromatin landscape at flowering component loci, florigen movement from the leaf to the shoot apex, and the influence of carbohydrate status on flowering in response to photoperiod.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4489636/

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Change - could these FTL proteins be fermented using something like lactobacillus and then made somewhat available to the plant?

 

In Korean natural farming methods, if something has "A" in it, and it's fermented down using LAB or BIM (beneficial indigenous microbes), then "A" is available to the plant through the roots and foliar. Say carrots were high in this FTL1/2, you'd ferment them down for 3-6 days then feed it back to the plants...

 

just a thought but I may be way off here, I am just assuming there's a natural source high in this protein available for you to use 

[Change]

I cant comment on what the koreans are doing 

But it turns out i was wrong about plant roots not being able to absorb proteins, however im still not sure if this will work with the protein of interest. 

 

Nitrogen is quantitatively the most important nutrient that plants acquire from the soil. It is well established that plant roots take up nitrogen compounds of low molecular mass, including ammonium, nitrate, and amino acids. However, in the soil of natural ecosystems, nitrogen occurs predominantly as proteins. This complex organic form of nitrogen is considered to be not directly available to plants. We examined the long-held view that plants depend on specialized symbioses with fungi (mycorrhizas) to access soil protein and studied the woody heathland plant Hakea actites and the herbaceous model plant Arabidopsis thaliana, which do not form mycorrhizas. We show that both species can use protein as a nitrogen source for growth without assistance from other organisms. We identified two mechanisms by which roots access protein. Roots exude proteolytic enzymes that digest protein at the root surface and possibly in the apoplast of the root cortex. Intact protein also was taken up into root cells most likely via endocytosis. These findings change our view of the spectrum of nitrogen sources that plants can access and challenge the current paradigm that plants rely on microbes and soil fauna for the breakdown of organic matter.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2393761/

 

 

Here is a computer generated model of what the florigenic protein looks like 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Structure/mmdb/mmdbsrv.cgi?uid=33642&dps=0

 

 

 

 

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Proteolytic enzymes (or proteases) refer to the various enzymes that digest (break down into smaller units) protein. These enzymes include the pancreatic proteases chymotrypsin and trypsin, bromelain (pineapple enzyme), papain (papaya enzyme), fungal proteases, and Serratia peptidase (the “silk worm” enzyme).

 

from google. So to get this enzyme to the roots you could use a papaya fruit fermentation, you'd need to use the seeds to get the papain tho. I have a papaya ferment going and being strained/stabilised today funnily enough. 

[Change]

We identified two mechanisms by which roots access protein. Roots exude proteolytic enzymes that digest protein at the root surface and possibly in the apoplast of the root cortex. Intact protein also was taken up into root cells most likely via endocytosis  (copied from above)

 

The first method isnt going to be helpful, because protein performs its function due to its 3d structure, therefore digestion of the protein will change its structure rendering it useless. 

 

The second method describes intact proteins taken up "most likely via endocytosis". I need to learn more about plant root absorption before im going to be able to understand if absorption of this particular protein via endocytosis is possible.

 

Thanks for adding your ideas Dood 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Change

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Pretty sure I now understand plant Endocytosis and my response is completely ridiculous  ah well to continue with the flower experiments 

Edited October 25, 2016 by theuserformallyknownasd00d

[Change]

Here is a better link than the one i posted earlier, containing information on both flowering proteins, amino acid sequences, and 3d computer models

http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=1WKP

 

Dna sequencing could be used to detect the presence of the genetic sequences for these proteins 

Which then leads me to wonder, there must be more going on then simply the gene being there or not.

I would assume promotion and expression of the gene would be more important. And im not sure if its possible to predict what expression levels could be from a sequence. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by Change

[Change]

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/150/4/1764.full

 

http://sci-hub.bz/10.1016/s0092-8674(01)00390-7