Dreamwalker. Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) This post began as below.............but has become a general investigation into how to induce flowering in (immature or hard to flower) cacti.................mostly though hormone use..............feel free to add your imput................... Has anyone had experience inducing flowering with gibberellic acid...?....seems a good way to promote fruiting in slow to mature or reluctant cacti. Effects of day-length, radiation, flower thinning and growth regulators on flowering of the vine cacti Hylocereus undatus and Selenicereus megalanthus. A Khaimov, Y Mizrahi - Journal of Horticultural Science and …, 2006 - cabdirect.org ... Vegetative parthenocarpy in the cactus pear Opuntia ficus-indica (L.) Mill.J Weiss, A Nerd, Y Mizrahi - Annals of Botany, 1993 - Annals Botany Co Cited by 36 Related articles All 8 versions Cite Save Carbon and water relations for developing fruits of Opuntia ficus‐indica (L.) Miller, including effects of drought and gibberellic acid E De la Barrera, PS Nobel - Journal of experimental botany, 2004 - Soc Experiment Biol ... Cited by 21 Related articles All 11 versions Cite Save Cytokinin-and gibberellic acid-induced effects on the structure and metabolism of shoot apical meristems in Opuntia polyacantha (Cactaceae) JD Mauseth - American Journal of Botany, 1976 - JSTOR ... Cited by 53 Related articles All 3 versions Cite Save Edited February 23, 2015 by Dreamwalker. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferret Posted March 12, 2014 no experience sorry, but just skimming over those abstracts i would be investigating options other than GA3 GA3 > delay flowering, decrease flower yield, reduce fruit size and # of viable seeds CPPU > precocious flowering 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted March 12, 2014 I use GA3 to speed up grafts growth rate with a few select plants. I don't do this with all of them because it messes up the rib definition. I have had plants flower early after a GA3 treatment. What I do is I make a 100ppm solution and spray it onto the scion of the graft. It has increased my grafts growth 5x. I have gotten lophs to grow 1cm a month (grafted) with it. I don't like the way they look though. Here's an example: GA3 treated lophophora williamsii Non GA3 treated Lophophora williamsii 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Yes, it works. Btw, now I´m giving you Guys a GREAT Tip to induce shitloads of flowering! The Pill! Yes, Anti Baby Pill! We tested it and the Plants that we tried it on flowered MASSIVELY and a lot earlier than Others! Some Echinopsis Seedlings even flowered in their second Year with lots and lots of Flowers! Not telling you to steal your girlfriends Pill. Just saying. And yeah, GA3 works very good too, but it's expensive. Edited March 12, 2014 by Evil Genius 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anodyne Posted March 12, 2014 Just out of curiosity, what did you see in those papers that made you think that? These seemed to be the relevant results: GA3delayed flowering and decreased total flower yield. Fruits injected with 2 ml of 500 ppm GA3 were 30% smaller than the control at 80 d after anthesis; they contained a large proportion of aborted seeds None of that sounds very encouraging to me? Afaik, GA3 is used more for seed germination and triggering cell elongation (& to a lesser extent, division). So you can use it to help germinate reluctant seeds, and make the existing cells within the plant grow bigger. Commercially it's used to make fruit grow big whether or not they contain viable/mature seeds. So I guess if you just wanted cactus fruit to eat, then it might be good - but for producing mature seeds, there are probably better options. Although I also seem to remember that GA3 can have differing effects based on concentration. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted March 12, 2014 I should also add that all of the flowers that came after a GA3 treatment produced no fruits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Just out of curiosity, what did you see in those papers that made you think that? These seemed to be the relevant results: None of that sounds very encouraging to me? Afaik, GA3 is used more for seed germination and triggering cell elongation (& to a lesser extent, division). So you can use it to help germinate reluctant seeds, and make the existing cells within the plant grow bigger. Commercially it's used to make fruit grow big whether or not they contain viable/mature seeds. So I guess if you just wanted cactus fruit to eat, then it might be good - but for producing mature seeds, there are probably better options. Although I also seem to remember that GA3 can have differing effects based on concentration. Hi Anodyne I researched the use of Ga re seed germination a long while ago.................came across a lot of papers re dragonfruit where it was used to promote flowering.............timing/concentration/species?? seem to create contradictory effects..............I'm not clear on those yet....as EG says its expensive..............re seed germination a common ingredient in rooting hormone came up in a lot of papers which was alot cheaper and seemed to have the same effect...........(can't beat fresh seed)......I have been meaning to do a post ...........just got around to it.......I just copied the first search results and only skim read them.................more interested to see if others had used it to induce flowering......EG's post was gold...............some cacti can take decades to flower.....Carnegiea gigantea ' Saguaro' 50 to 75 years.........I may not be around that long..................others have posted wanting to induce their trich's to flower...................this is an option to speed up the hybridising process............and produce some kick ass plants............Although Hostilis post suggest no quick fix, as it is used commercially on orchards to promote fruiting ...timing/concentration/species??...........there are factors that need to be tested................ Edited March 12, 2014 by Dreamwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 12, 2014 Yes, it works. Btw, now I´m giving you Guys a GREAT Tip to induce shitloads of flowering! The Pill! Yes, Anti Baby Pill! We tested it and the Plants that we tried it on flowered MASSIVELY and a lot earlier than Others! Some Echinopsis Seedlings even flowered in their second Year with lots and lots of Flowers! Not telling you to steal your girlfriends Pill. Just saying. And yeah, GA3 works very good too, but it's expensive... thanks for that...........we are all made of the same stuff I guess...................any particular type of bc pill?.................that would be a particular hormone at work..................do you know off hand? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Hi Dreamwalker, i tried one with Gestoden and Ethinylestradiol but it is certainly worth to try others as well. We used something like 5 or 6 Pills in the Water. If it doesn´t have enough effect, just increase the Dose until the Thing flowers. ALL of the Plants that we tried it on flowered like crazy and were able to set viable seed! Some had so many Flowers that they fell over. I need a better supply for them. Guess i´ll have to go to the Gyn and tell him about my overly fertile Vagina. Edited March 12, 2014 by Evil Genius 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted March 12, 2014 I wonder if I ate some of those pills I would flower... I'll report back with my findings. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Hi Dreamwalker, i tried one with Gestoden and Ethinylestradiol but it is certainly worth to try others as well. We used something like 5 or 6 Pills in the Water. If it doesn´t have enough effect, just increase the Dose until the Thing flowers. ALL of the Plants that we tried it on flowered like crazy and were able to set viable seed! Some had so many Flowers that they fell over. I need a better supply for them. Guess i´ll have to go to the Gyn and tell him about my overly fertile Vagina. thanks for that...precious..............(not sure where/how I can obtain them...take a little thinking.....maybe if I go to the gym in drag, can get morning after pill......not sure if that would work..have to check chem)....... Anyways............one question........I guess you apply the water to the surface of the plant and not to the roots? Edited March 12, 2014 by Dreamwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I wonder if I ate some of those pills I would flower... I'll report back with my findings. I read an article yesterday than suggest's estrogen prolongs life.........so if your anything like Saguaro and flower at 75.................... Actually I like the look of your GA3 treated lophophora williamsii....but I guess the growth might be a bit illusionary .......if ga is elongating the cells ....then it may in part be pumping it up with water. Did they feel softer than normal? Edited March 12, 2014 by Dreamwalker 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Indole-3-Butyric Acid (I think) was the hormone that induced seed germination according to the research papers I read...seem to be as good as GA...have no idea if it will induce flowering.......lots of reading to do.............. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indole-3-butyric_acid Indole-3-butyric acid (1H-Indole-3-butanoic acid, IBA) Edited February 23, 2015 by Dreamwalker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted March 13, 2014 I read an article yesterday than suggest's estrogen prolongs life.........so if your anything like Saguaro and flower at 75.................... Actually I like the look of your GA3 treated lophophora williamsii....but I guess the growth might be a bit illusionary .......if ga is elongating the cells ....then it may in part be pumping it up with water. Did they feel softer than normal? No dreamwalker, they're just as hard. They are healthy plants, but they're weak when it comes to rot or other pathogens. I think their skin is a lot thinner than a plant on it's own roots or even a grafted one that wasn't treated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookahhead Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Somethings we may want to consider... shore kapulnik 02.pdfAbstract. The flowering of Salvia aplendens under non inductive short days is promoted by exogenous application of estrogen fraction isolated from flowering sage plants, gibberellin GAd+7 and to some extend NS-bonzyladonino and ostradiol.The most active is the combination of GA4+7 with estrogen fraction. No synergistic action of GA4+7 with NS-benzyladenine estradiol was found. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens#Food_sources Phytoestrogens are plant-derived xenoestrogens (see estrogen) not generated within the endocrine system but consumed by eating phytoestrogenic plants. Also called "dietary estrogens", they are a diverse group of naturally occurring nonsteroidal plant compounds that, because of their structural similarity with estradiol (17-β-estradiol), have the ability to cause estrogenic or/and antiestrogenic effects,antiestrogenic effects by sitting in and blocking receptor sites against estrogen.In some countries, phytoestrogenic plants have been used for centuries in the treatment of menstrual and menopausal problems, as well as for fertility problems. Plants used that have been shown to contain phytoestrogens include Pueraria mirifica, and its close relative, kudzu, Angelica, fennel and anise. In a rigorous study, the use of one such source of phytoestrogen, red clover, has been shown to be safe, but ineffective in relieving menopausal symptoms(black cohosh is also used for menopausal symptoms, but does not contain phytoestrogens.) Panax Ginseng contains phytoestrogens and has been used for menopausal symptomsPhytoestrogen content varies in different foods, and may vary significantly within the same group of foods (e.g. soy beverages, tofu) depending on processing mechanisms and type of soybean used. Legumes (in particular soybeans), whole grain cereals, and some seeds are high in phytoestrogens. A more comprehensive list of foods known to contain phytoestrogens includes: soybeans and soy products, tempeh, linseed (flax), sesame seeds, wheatberries, fenugreek, oats, barley, beans, lentils, yams, rice, alfalfa, mung beans, apples, carrots, pomegranates, wheat germ, rice bran, lupin, kudzu, coffee, licorice root, mint, ginseng, hops, bourbon, beer, fennel and anise. Seeing sesame listed popped out to me because I learned about this organic pest product today. The main ingredients are fish oil and sesame oil. Never though of using something like sesame or anise oil on a plant but now you have me thinking... http://www.arborgrow.com/organocide.htm Edit: This article discusses several plant oils as insecticideshttp://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/old_reds/flower_veggie_oils.pdf For soybean oil: Targeted pests = citrus rust mite, clover mite, Texas citrus mite, citrus red mite, European red mite, two-spotted spider mite, thrips, anobiid beetles, cerambycid bark beetles, lyctid beetles, rose chafer, japanese beetle, gnats, rose midge, midges, mosquitoes, homopterans, whiteflies, aphids, leafhoppers, mealybugs, roseslug, gypsy moth (eggs) shore kapulnik 02.pdf shore kapulnik 02.pdf Edited March 19, 2014 by hookahhead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_oral_contraceptive_pill#Formulations The combined oral contraceptive pill (COCP), often referred to as the birth-control pill or colloquially as "the pill", is a birth control method that includes a combination of an estrogen (estradiol) and a progestogen (progestin). Main article: Oral contraceptive formulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning-after_pill#Mechanism_of_action primary mechanism of action of combined estrogen-progestogen emergency contraceptive pills https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florigen Florigen Edited February 23, 2015 by Dreamwalker. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibberellin Edited February 23, 2015 by Dreamwalker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 19, 2014 I don't see any similarity between the gibberellins and Estrogen/Progesterone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted March 19, 2014 Look instead at brassinosteroid plant hormones like Brassinolide, you'll see a clear similarity. Its expensive and never found in concentrated form in plants tho, what would be really wild would be a plant we could decoct and feed to cacti to get the steroid flowering effect EG proposed. I suspect one candidate would be ecdysteroids. In places that get winter Stemmacantha carthamoides could be grown as a concentrated source of 20-hydroxyecdysone et al. Its seeds and roots would be the best. You aussies will have to find a subtropical plant or something. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irabionist Posted March 20, 2014 I might try the pill on some of my freaks, see if i get any flowers 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted March 20, 2014 ... I can't tell if this is a joke anymore. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted March 20, 2014 A bit early, I think its still a week and a half until someone unveils the flower induction by anal sex tek. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Not a Joke. Have Pics of Plants that this was tried on with LOADS and LOADS of Flowers. Would post them, but since I was not the Photographer I´d rather not. Edited March 20, 2014 by Evil Genius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 20, 2014 I might try the pill on some of my freaks, see if i get any flowers post some pic's if it works Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwalker. Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) ... I can't tell if this is a joke anymore. I can't speak for EG........(I'm still not sure about cement and cross hybridisation) .but Gibberellic acid used to induce flowering is a common practice ...and easy to verify.......................so your loph wasn't induced by Gibberellic acid? any jokes should in all fairness be followed by a "ha ha" post...........(no more than a few days later)...........it wouldn't bother me.............and would save a lot of wasting of time............. Edited March 20, 2014 by Dreamwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites