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mutant

Disturbing films: name some and why you list them

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brazil freaked me out for some reason when i saw it a an impressionable teenager,

but perhaps the most disturbing film i've seen is antichrist from lars von trier,

and i thought "a serbian film" fell about 98% short of its hype.

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the original hills have eyes is a good watch. its about as gruesome as texas chainsaw massacre with added depravity.

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I can't watch movies like saw and the like- I'm far to much of a wooz. I mean I had to walk out of "schindlers list" as I was to upset to continue.

I didn't mind gummo. I've watched it twice :)

I love in a gummo'esque environment so I guess I'm desensitised.

Edited by incognito

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I'm not someone who can easily watch disturbing films. I avoid them completely now because themes and characters from such films used to enter my dreamstate and mess with me for prolonged periods of time afterwards.

+1

I don't see the point in these kind of films at all. The dark and horrid side of humanity makes for lousy and very questionable entertainment IMO. The world is disturbing enough as it is.

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+1

I don't see the point in these kind of films at all. The dark and horrid side of humanity makes for lousy and very questionable entertainment IMO. The world is disturbing enough as it is.

I agree for the most part. I can enjoy bad sequel to a bad college movie more than I enjoy a reasonably well made horror movie. Or to put it another way, I get more enjoyment from seeing bras coming off than heads coming off :lol:. That said, some horror/thriller movies are so well made or conceived that they win my respect, even if I don't actually enjoy the process of watching them.

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I watched one years ago called canibal ferrox. Couldnt finish it though. Pretty twisted shit.

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And that 12 years a slave was pretty confronting. I cant believe humans can do that to one another....

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Just to echo gtarman, I read a fair bit of buddhist literature, although I am not buddhist, and I think it is pertinent to raise the concept of nutriments in this discussion.

The basic idea is that whatever we expose ourselves to has an impact on us, positive or negative. Food, drugs, media, anything you take into your being by way of your senses.

I gave these types of flicks away a long time ago, partially because I watched a shitload of them through my youth, but also because depictions of human misery effect me, in what I would consider a negative way.

As I say that fucking Killer Inside Me still bounces around in my consciousness to this day, and what benefit do I get from that? Anger? Disgust? Frustration? All I can do without.

That's not to say I'm criticising people's choices in terms of what they expose themselves to, we are all responsible adults here... do and watch what you like, just that there is an illusion we (I) sometimes present (my)ourselves with; namely "It's only make-believe", and that therefore I can walk away from a film unaffected.

/endrant

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you know, when people become monks they're often exposed to dieing/decaying bodies as a way to see that the body is simply a fleshy vehicle (and to see/smell first hand that what humans perceive as disgusting things) is essentially meaningless. i'm not exactly sure what your point is but but pretending a bunch of ketchup and cooked cabbage is a "dead body" is really meaningless. if you truly see horror films as a real life thing then i think the problem is yours.

if you only fill your life with what you perceive as "nice things" then how can you truly see all of life?

sidebar: you kind of sound like the "violent video games causes murder" brigade.

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^ there's a difference between acknowledging that fucked up shit happens in the world, and actively seeking it out and saturating yourself with it...and what we're talking about here is a far cry from your monk scenario above...a dead body is a dead body. Those monks wouldn't sit around watching Hostel.

And like it or not, people are influenced by the stimuli of their everyday worlds. We are shaped in many varying ways by what we choose to immerse ourselves in, by whatever influences we allow into our lives - whether that be our choice of friends, our choice of news outlets, our choice of careers, or even our choice of breakfast foods etc. A sad story makes us sad, a disturbing film disturbs us (whether it's fictional or not). There's really nothing metaphysical about it - our brains are hardwired to react in that way.

Edited by gtarman
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you know, when people become monks they're often exposed to dieing/decaying bodies as a way to see that the body is simply a fleshy vehicle (and to see/smell first hand that what humans perceive as disgusting things) is essentially meaningless. i'm not exactly sure what your point is but but pretending a bunch of ketchup and cooked cabbage is a "dead body" is really meaningless. if you truly see horror films as a real life thing then i think the problem is yours.

if you only fill your life with what you perceive as "nice things" then how can you truly see all of life?

sidebar: you kind of sound like the "violent video games causes murder" brigade.

Ironically enough I have probably played more violent games than anyone here, and I've seen my share of dead bodies, including children, namely my own.

I've advocated for the R18+ rating for games for years, mainly from the perspective that games shouldn't be withdrawn from sale just because video games are perceived as being only for children, which is simply naive.

All I was trying to say was that everything we expose ourselves to has an effect on us, perhaps less than eloquently, for which I apologise.

As far as filling life with nice things, I think it is important to do just that. Life has a way of presenting you with opportunities to extend your comfort zone and confront you with the things you would prefer not to see. My point is I'm certainly not going to actively seek out fictional depictions of shit I'd prefer not to see, like women being bashed. I only have to turn on the news for that anyway. By no means does that mean I am denying their existence, which I think is what you were alluding to.

This stuff exists, sure, but in my life I doubt I will live to see a human centipede or a chainsaw massacre. Hopefully not. I'm sure as shit not going to go out and see if I can have some sort of vicarious experience of it just in case though. Bring on flowers and rainbows :wink::P:lol:

/end hijack of topic

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i've seen the human centipede, tales of it being "the most fucked up movie ever" is simply untrue. it was a bunch of people pretending to do something, and that something was neither interesting nor confronting. but that's just me.

and that's my point. these movies are pretend. you talk as if people take them on board as though they are representative of a real thing. the way your talking is you see it as a bad thing therefore all people are affected by it in the same way that you are. this simply is not the case.

edit: what proof do you have that people are "negatively affected" by the movies which you think they should be "negatively affected" by?

Edited by bot6

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i mean, what do you think the root causes of violence in society are? do you think it's watching a horror movie?

you look through the millennia of human civilisation humans are violent horrible creatures, they don't need pretend horror lead them to that.

Edited by bot6

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No, but I have cried when watching films before, and I have laughed, and even clapped. Because they have an effect on me, emotionally at least, because I have taken that imagery in, at the very least on an emotional level.

Again, my apologies to mutant for absolutely hijacking this thread, and unfortunately bot I can't really justify continuing to do so.

So finally, images of violence, or anything for that matter, resonate within the human being. It is in our nature to connect with whatever we choose to take into ourselves. And before I go on I never said horror films negatively effect anyone, but myself.

That said does it matter if I know it is only a representation of a violent act? Either way I will have at least some sort of emotional response to whatever the stimuli is, which to me means I have taken it in, on whatever level you would like to call it. Now if I find myself reflecting on a violent scene I have seen acted out in a movie years later, that to me means it is still bouncing around inside of me, continuing to foster the initial response I had to viewing it. If it was a funny movie I might laugh again.

But what if it made me feel sick to my stomach? Therein, to me lies a potentially negative effect on my person/psyche/whatever the fuck you want to call it. I never said films are real-life, obviously they are depictions (at times) of it, but even so, if I didn't watch whatever flick it was I would not feel this or that way about it afterwards. Does that make sense?

All I am saying is that for me that is no longer something I consider desirable. Please don't take it as a value judgement, and to be honest I will be reticent to bring such things into a topic of this sort again. Please re-read what I have posted because I feel you might have misconstrued some of what I have said, but it happens.

My apologies again for the tangent nature of my post :blush:

Hack, slash, maim and kill on :uzi:

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ok, i did read back on what you wrote and you yourself didn't say "people are…." so ….. um not sure what to say here, other than OK.

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i've seen the human centipede, tales of it being "the most fucked up movie ever" is simply untrue. it was a bunch of people pretending to do something, and that something was neither interesting nor confronting. but that's just me.

and that's my point. these movies are pretend. you talk as if people take them on board as though they are representative of a real thing. the way your talking is you see it as a bad thing therefore all people are affected by it in the same way that you are. this simply is not the case.

edit: what proof do you have that people are "negatively affected" by the movies which you think they should be "negatively affected" by?

What proof do you have that people aren't? Just like any contentious stick in the mud (global warming*cough*global warming) you seem to think the only people who ought to be burdened with the provision of proof are the people who disagree with you. And of course whenever such proof is actually provided, it's also quickly dismissed and discarded.

The fact of the matter is that the JOB of fiction, and of modern cinema is to SUSPEND DISBELIEF. They don't achieve this by being absurdly unrealistic. And while they probably aren't 100% realistic (even now in 2014), they're close enough so as not to matter to the 99.999999% of people who have never seen somebody dismembered and have nothing to compare it to (again, a far cry from your "ketchup and cabbage" comments). And the realism isn't necessarily only a visual thing either - people don't react to the detail of visual effects - they react to the fact that somebody just had their head cut off etc.

If movies didn't manage to make people temporarily feel as if what was in front of them was a depiction of a real thing, then they wouldn't actually work, and there would be no reason to watch them. We watch them precisely because they affect us. Otherwise we would just sit at home and dispassionately read the script, and be able to attain the same level of immersion and engagement.

We know, logically, that what's happening on the screen isn't real. I'm not sure if you actually understand how fiction works??

And sure, some people can watch these movies and be largely unaffected by them...but that says more about them than it does about the movie generally (unless it's a VERY unrealistic movie, to the point of being comical) - that they've probably seen so many as to be desensitized to it, or are just not particularly affected by such things in general, or are just of a psychological makeup that makes it harder for them to engage with fictional cinema. Or maybe they're a sociopath :P

All anybody here has been doing is suggesting that for them personally (and for most people, those who are emotionally affected by the movies they watch), that drowning yourself in disturbia is probably not the healthiest thing, nor very conducive to happiness.

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Some people can appreciate a disturbing film every now and then without 'drowning' or 'saturating' themselves in 'disturbia'.

Shit is extremely fucked up, ignoring that part of the world isn't going to make it any better.

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I watched a real video at work today the gus where watching, out of curiosity, was a vid released by some Mexican cartel who hung a dude upside down as cut of his genitals then decapiated him and cut his arms and legs off.

I feel like I'm tainted- I kinda watched through squinted eyes and a grimace- what's the fugen go there??

Edit- I might add I watched with the hope of pointing it out as a fake to my gullible work mateys, but unfortunately I think it's for real. I still feel crook.

Edited by incognito
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Some people can appreciate a disturbing film every now and then without 'drowning' or 'saturating' themselves in 'disturbia'.

Shit is extremely fucked up, ignoring that part of the world isn't going to make it any better.

I guess some people may be so inclined, different strokes for different folks and all. Personally though, I don't find anything about films like 'Saw' to be appreciable.

And I kinda said it above, but just because I like arguing (:P) ignoring it isn't the same as simply not seeking it out, and choosing not to watch disturbing movies is not synonymous with choosing not to acknowledge the existence of disturbing shit in the world.

You're right in saying that not focusing on the messed up crap that goes on is not going to change the fact that it happens - but neither is watching fictional movies depicting that messed up crap in a stylized manner.

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I love it where this is have gone!

I really like it we have some lengthy comments and some philosophy.

First of all I want to ask bot6: if "A Serbian film" was not one of the most extreme for him, then what was, in the horror department.

And yeah, "Antichrist" is pretty full on and deserves to be on a such a list. Many people state they couldn't handle the film.

****

I have a friend who is pretty 'pussy' when it comes to films: not only is he easily affected when the content is too heavy for him, but he also gets bored too easily when watching a film, so go figure. This dude is also often stressed when medical talk is taking place near him. He gets the chills and urges us to stop talking about this stuff, even if its talk about a knee injury or something. This dude has told me the following about requiem for a dream

"Boy, I watched it, and I still wish I hadn't"

I know this person is not extressing joy or bliss, he is expressing dread and wanna-forget what he saw.

But was the film successful? Fuck yeah!

Who said films are about making you happy and all? Who says filming experiences should be pleasant?

Gtarman>>>

there's a big difference between not wanting to watch them because you find them useless or pointless and not wanting to watch them because you have after effects.

also "The dark and horrid side of humanity makes for lousy and very questionable entertainment" makes for a lousy comment on dark arts. I mean where do you draw the line? Have you seen Seven or Misery? Are these highi-profile films "lousy art" ? What about "requiem for a dream" , "antichrist" , "Black swan" - are they lousy art?

"the world is disturbing as is"

I hear ya, so by not seeing violent or dark themed films we are wishing the reality to go away or what?

Ballzac>>

you say you agree for the most part with gtarman

but you watched Guinea Pig part 1 or 2 or both right? Why did you watch it?

I mean, these films are the extremest, most exploitative NON-film examples of extreme gore horror.

I find it pretty hard that someone with real opinion against such films could ever make it through either of Guine Pig 1 or 2.

Again, a line should be drawn. Sure, Guinea Pig 1 is a plain wrong, non film. I serves only as a splatter artifact for the genre completists, nowadays.

Cannibal Holocaust, on the other hand, a pure exploitation film who kills animals on film for shock value, has lots more merits, cinematographically and otherwise , but at the end of the day is no masterpiece.

I personally draw the line in what I perceive as plain exploitation, shock for shock sake.

But its not I will ever say these films shouldn't be created or that I can't enjoy some of them.

With "A serbian film" , the film is so fucking powerful, that I still dont know where I am standing.

What I know is that a film that delivers the thrills is successful,

and a filmd that delivers the thrills and ahs you thinking about it the next day is twice successful

and so on.

There are cheap disturbing films and there are arty , masterfully created disturbing films. I give you that. And I also draw a line here as well.

But, truth be told,

in my eyes Seven is pretty close to Saw in several ways, a big difference is that with Saw we get to see the horrors in real time. In seven we have only still shots of the tortured.

But I never heard anyone giving Seven a bad name because of the torture or violence.

Quarterflesh>>

haven't seen the original hills but the remake and the sequel are decent watches and are also praised by fans of the original.

The original Texas chainsaw has also one of the most wonderfully filmed disturbing famous scenes of film history.

In regards with Gummo, indeed I have seen this listed in such lists and remember the name. in the must-see list!

======

Will come back (going to the greenhouse)

but I would like to ask...

from those who indeed proposed some extreme films...

why do you watch them

we already have some people judging the creation of such violent films, but we still haven't got no "fans" explaining why they watch it.

I will at some point.

But hey, am I the only hardline fan of extreme cinema here?

(and by this, as I told before, I am not saying I dont appreciate other genres, let alone extreme cinema is definately not only about the thriller/horror genre)

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Responsible Choice>

which 'Killer in me', the 1976 film?

(if it stigmatised you, than I have to see it)

Well lets state some things first.

Films are supposed to make you feel, to make you feel scared, to make you care or dislike a character, they're supposed to be that, what's the matter with some of you?

Also films, and any kind of art for that matter, is not about making you feel good, or at least not all the time - but it certainly is about making you feel , among other things.

Lets take it to music for example: my interest for weird extreme and fucked up things has me also beeing a fan of extreme music and perhaps three of the most violent and speedy kinds of music. hardcore techno/gabba , grindcore/deathgrind & powerelectronics/noise .

Quite regularly - even typically, these types of music express violent outbursts, anger, frustration , they feat nasty screamings and growlings and "awful" noises... extreme music adressing to extreme but REAL emotions...... who is to say these kinds of music are un-needed, not appreciable ?

some people , when they're desparate or simply melanchiloc and down wanna hear nice things, butterflies, flowers, sun and the like lol. Or simly watch some stupid american comedy - well why not the simpsons?

Some wanna listen to depressing music to amplify their 'grief' even more, the introvert type.

Some wanna listen to loud and angry music to let it burst out like a cloud of burst.

Some might watch horror films, what's the difference?

I could accept some arguements about many such films lacking an artistic merit, as the majority of horror, but hey, so many others dont.

On the other hand, if someone has a past of some violent incident which might be traumatic, then by all means I can understand completely the tendency to avoid it on screen .

Me personally never got interested in "the real thing" in real form, not that I wan't interested in real crime f.e. serial killer in particular. But I never liked to watch real pics, it was called "tasteless" back in the day, the rotten material and all, and especially real video footage. Was never interested in that - I was interested in fiction pictures and I was interested in real crime. That's why I dont dig stuff like Guinea Pig 1 for example : this sick thing fakes to be a snuff film. Now, a film with a proper plot around a snuff film or people that create them, now this is something interesting , but the "snuff film" itself, this is plain sick and of questionable morality creation, even though its all fake, so , see? I put a line too!

In the process of researching horror and dark cinema I found out I was also interested in why do some people like to see gore in horror films, something different from wanting to be just scared in the typical slasher / thriller way.

And also interesting is which things annoy us and disturb us in a film. Which annoy men and which annoy women and all...

now, lets take Requiem for a dream

Why do most men find the girl story more disturbing than the one of the naive old lady ?

It's only a couple prostitution scenes - its funny as most males are not insulted by it, generally, but here its not depicted in your usual glorious way, that's why its disturbing...

So if we only begin to see what aronafski did here,

we might understand that disturbing is a means to tell a story, disturbing is a means to let some "meaning" out, disturbing might mean empowring your story with bold material to get your story more real... and the list goes on...

or lets take the legendary Freaks (1932) .

For me the most disturbing thing (to my intelligence and morals, that is) is that this film is often taken as horror or plain exploitation. Sure its weird and its certainly disturbing to a degree. But its also a one of a kind film. A masterpiece. Yeah OK, people are disturbed by this film, yet there's little violence , physical violence that is, in the film .... whatever the hype, somewhat disturbing or not so , its also a film you have to see!!! Its simple as that, the info is out there, check it out.

Obviously this is an ethical matter. Its not countable or provable so never mind the 'numbers'.

There are some films nowadays with some bold gay content.

Would you class them as disturbing?

So I repeat: where do we draw the line?

Also, and I intend to talk more about that, Its really important to ask yourself, even if you now chose not to watch them, why did you use to? Why do you do it? What did it offer you? Simple curiosity?

All in all, and like Clive Barker has said, humans are animals that tell stories.

People are afraid of death - they most often can never overcome the knowledge of death, once they realise. So lots of the these stories are about death and people getting close to dieing. Wounds become pretty essential in stories like this.. you know killing isn't always as easy as the superheros make appear in hollywood flicks...

Also, people ultimately fear of having their hand cut off (or their dick, you know?) , they simply dont admit it. You say watching splatter films has a negative aspect, I tell you one positive aspect it has on me. Having seen a trillion of horrific scenes of cut limbs, damaged eye-balls I find myself very careful when I need to, with machinery and the like. I am careful without having had a major accident, I am careful in advance. You know Imagine you you are weeding-out a Stetsonia coryne and a fucking spike gets in your eye because you're not carefull. I mean these shit CAN happen ya know!

There was even a german 10min short film, shot as a educational film for lifting vehicle use, which was about safety in the warehouse facilities. Well this one was more funny, so its not in the damned list of the nasties, even though the acidents and the gore were ultra real and bloody...

the fear of death which varies in each individual interlinks with a trillion things we could never imagine

serious violent injuries is something linked with this and deep down, seeing a fake cutting of a finger somewhat satisfies the fearful curiosity: "what happens if your finger is cut off?" . Our egos are somewhat relieved by the psychological process of seeing something we would probably never see in our own life, let alone let it happen in us, but without actually having to experience it and knowing its a fake, that is , a film...

just imagine Misery without that particular painful scene everyone remembers, once they see it...

what would it be? We wouldn't take the bad guy so seriously if we hadn't seen this scene, is that right?

So we got this scene to see this missy is serious about it, and we as the viewers should take her seriously.

Disturbing? oh yeah, but simply gold!

Fearing of death, fearing of the bad side of humanity or even idelogically or stategically avoiding or denying it - I can understand all of it.

When I described a dirty feeling in seeing some of the sickest horror pics, I am sure many of you have felt similar things. Its strange, because when you are looking for the most disturbing film of all time, sometyhing to top those highest on the scale or simply win a place in a list, it might be more disturbing and shocking than exciting, so you know there's pretty good possibility your mood will be to the floors by the filmd ends.

Unlike feelgood films with lots of guns and shooting but no big "blood" violence , which are not disturbing nor their aim is such a thing...

So, someone might say Saw is not appreciable, but this is funny really, at least funny.

Not only Saw is appreciable by a huge croud much bigger its own fan base, but its also one of the most financially successful franchises, so its at least appreciable by the makers that earned big money with this thing. Cant say the same thing about the less edgy PG-13 material they're making now, and many agree with me.

The truth is that many of those films travel you to worlds and state of minds you wouldn't even imagine, to places you would pray not to be, and that is the magic of film. Exploring the film world is like every other exploration.

Some like the easy feelgood way, and be sure I like watching feelgood films.

Some avoid heavy in content films, like philosophical films or films with much dialogue. Others are turned down by little dialogue.

So are freeking fans of karate films and watch all they can find.

Violence is present in one form or the other in all kinds of films, except kid films, where its almost always hidden or implied.

But we never talked about extreme horror or exploitation / disturbing that is not "serious" , that does not take itself so seriously, or goes along with the usual cheap exploitation fare. Or films extremely graphic in nature, with, say erotic content... This might be regarded disturbing too. d

is all extreme cinema accused of this "bad carma" ? What are the exceptions?

Or lets talk about Aliens (part 2)

This is one of the tightest sci-fi/action-thriller ever made. The dream sequence in the begining is unforgettable - it still works aftrer tens of viewings (one of my favourite films, and yeah I might watch this film series in any mood - gets me to alien world any time, and I get back whole each time! . This film has you at the edge of your seat the whole time. The first "alien-birth" from the part one, isn't that one of the most disturbing scenes ever filmed?

so that means Alien (1979) is a bad film? My mother took me to the cinema (regreted we did not leave) and we watched Aliens. Traumatic, well yeah, do I wish I hadn't seen it? fuck no, this was an exccellent debut for me! I was even lucky considering that neither of my parents like thrillers , let alone horror, actually they avoid it , especially my father, who like strange and lukewarm iranian dramas that appeal to the high-class cinephile crwod.

And then you got this question, like my father used to ask:

"what do they offer you, these films you're watching, how can you take interest in such stuff, what's the benefit of this a.o."

well there is much more essence in why people dont watch these types of films , that in general cover a big part of film industry , than in why people do watch them which is pretty simple actually.

its the same reason we turn when we see a car accident, why some people stop and go out to see closer. The reason you are curious to see how badly the car was damaged and all. The same thing. humans are story-animals.

And scary stories were certainly here from the old times...

Phobias, ethical grey zones. Horror films have , despite their not so good reputation, been pioneer in breaking tabboos and bring fucked up subject matter into the public.

The very fact that these films actually disturb lots of people, take Antichrist of Von Trier fro example, the very fact that people cannot stomach to see Antichrist is amazingly interesting philosophically and another great success for this unique director.

Why are people so disturbed by Antichrist? What the big fuss?

(I find Antichrist to be a masterpiece, by the way)

Also, these "disturbing" films are not pleasant to see, contrary to films that do feature violence like car crashes and the like, but are served like cool action hero films, with huge explosions and all, like a casual thinky.

****

to make things clear, from time to time I watch lots of films, like 3-4 a day some times. Sometimes i expolore the sci-fi / cyberpunk / post apocalyptic genre (like the awesome ozzie madmax), other times the zombie apocalypse a la romero, other times is some director I especially like, some times is mob/mafia/crime stuffs, sometimes war films, some times horror comedies, it can be a crime thrillers and even weird comedies and everything all around.

Watch it from my own perspective. I have seen it all, I love seeing good thrillers and horror films and I am double thrilled if a film "gets" me.

anotehr take on the splatter-fan and all.... I was never a big fan of supernatural thrillers - why? I never believed in ghosts and the supernatural neither god or satan as a kid, so They didn't really scare me - it was the derecting tricks (editing and sound tricks) that has you jump, but it was not the real thing - I could clearly see it in fellow friends who were believers and clearly shited their pants with this stuff. Sure I thought The Exorcist (1973) was extreme and cool enough ,saw it as a teen. Did it disturb me? hell no, I was a teen-atheist, I loved all this blashpemus shit, I even sampled the infamous "let jeus fuck you" quote to include in some of my earliest musical tracks (1992) ! but it did disturb my fellow friends, this scene, and everytone religious back then and probably still today.

Dopes this make it a 'bad film'?

its pretty obvious an atheist is disturbed by physical threat and violence, not mumbo jumbo spirit voodo shit, that's where I am getting at in case you wonder...

In my defence

because I am an avid fan of such films, and I can watch the whole Saw saga in two sittings or invest a whole week in watching such films, from time to time of course, it doesn't make me more sicko than the one that "occasionally" enjoys them, I am just more immune to them and more passionate and knowledgeable, like with all matter I am into. If there is some harm to be done, it has already toaken place, I say, but I dont see it..... Ultimately I enjoy challenges and that's why I enjoy watching such films, should I say that I tend to take many things further away than most people, would it be the double sagi in me or the sun-neptune conjuction, lol?

Me I find totally more strange why some people are fans of bad films and some exploitation genres, let alone most exploitation is brainless, cheap sleazy and more often than not, sexist. Yes I can "enjoy" some exploitation, but am I a fan? definately no.

Well here we got to admit that mass produced horror / slasher and thriller films almost always feature all the typical exploitation trademarks, from nudity to silly dialogues. But its pretty obvious that we are not talking only exploitative horror shockers. And pretty historical accurate to say horror films have been perhaps the most challenginf film genre from the begining of the medium, and of course not without its drawbacks, driven mainly by the cheap intention to shock for the sake of it, or the mass production of crappy films.

So I am not a B-movie lover either, sure I love manie "b-movies" but what does b-movie means? well maybe another thread!

Last but not least,

some here said they choose not to watch them

some others said these films (and without mentioning no exaple except saw) are ... blablalba, that is the ethical nonsense which sums up : "this films are bad for you"

that is not simply "choosing not to watch"

to put it differently

"Its bad for me" is different that "its bad for all mankind"

I would really like you to give some examples of films that you saw and had no redeeming value

those of you that say you find such (what?) pics non-ethical, bad for children and mankind and/or pointless shockers....

let's say saw for example

or whatever.

we cant talk in the air. what are these films... Clearly I have already commented that some films are indeed in my opinion too at least questionable creations, films like Grotesque, Men behind the Sun, Guinea Pig let name a few. I would even mention the Human Centipede, but hey I cannot hate this film, part one is decent and weird enough to be different and we're waiting for final part. The whole thing is so cult that you simply cannot hate it, I dont love it either though

what about Clockwork orange - its supposed to be ultra disturbing. This is a bad film to see you say? Bot6 mentioned Brazil as a film that disturbed him in young age.

Repeat, again:

where do we draw the line?

PS: There is something I agree with the "nay-sayers" . Whatever we input to our psyches, has a result.

And so does ignoring or pretending to ignore the sickness, I would add.

PS2: For people who take some films personally, that is taking offence, there's probably a personal reason. The very fact that some people here are criticising "Saw" as a film lacking ethics or grace, is a proof of the importance of these movies. They have hit the nerve, and because they have a tight and action driven pace , they are not just torture, they are also very excitinmg to watch, even make you glad for some of the violent acts you seen on screen, if you thought the victim "deserved it". So there are morality issues from the first moment in these criticisms.... But I dont buy it they are a negative effect, or I am not buying unless I hear a whole story. What I am seeing is some sensitive chord is touched - fuck I would pay to be scared as you from a thriller, I mean , what an experience!! lol

PS3: There was never (much) violence in my life. This is probably one of the reasons I liked violent scenes from an early age. In an other occasion, it could be totally vice versa, someone might have a violent father, he might turn up hating violent films, f.e. just remember, there are different reasons people watch such films, and also for not watching them, and not talking about the specifics (of disturbance) is exactly like avoiding seeing it for whatever reason and then hating it because you cannot 'enjoy' its thrill.

PS4: remember the Arena of the roman times? they threw people to the lions. They should not make a film about it because its negative and disturbing and we'd better forget it?

Edited by mutant

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"Fuck you god, strike me dead if you dare!"

Watched Bad boy bubby (1993) , suggested by Shameless, is an awesome movie, definately a keeper for the collection

and it seems the directors other work is equally interesting, and a nice view into australian way seeing the director is a dutch immigrant... pretty interesting...

definately not for everyone - very enjoyable use of english, idioms and all

I would not put the film in a list of the most disturbing films though, as for me half or more of it is intelligent and original comedy, but sure the first part is disturbing enough and that makes the film even more challenging and pioneering, mxing all those elements together into a fine and smart story actually!

And if you think this is animal cruelty, then watch cannibal holocaust or any of those nasty italian cannibalosplatters... I dont think any real cat was harmed during the filming... This is actually a sweet film at the core...

Anyways, this is the most hillarious and intelligent comedy/drama I have seen since Solondz "Happiness" , and I like them bleak/black.

amazing film - breaks so many barriers that it's damned to be appreciated for its awesomeness only by few and be considered a shocker by most. I am happy to be one of the few!

No wonder its not more known, thanks heaps for the suggestion, another ozzie winner for my collection and another film for the atheist film collection.

"It is probably the only decent movie those kangaroo humpers ever made..."

lol, comment from imdb message boards , hehehehe

"God thinks fat people are an obination"
"Gods a cunt"

Edited by mutant
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just saw Gummo.

boy I am obviously missing something here, but this is the worse film I have seen in some time. Stupid, brainless with few point worths mentioning (like the boy with the rabbit hat scoring the girls at the end) , and overall boring. And I am not bored easily with films.

would definately not be in my list of disturbing films or any list for that matter, its neither really disturbing or good. I consider myself a hero to have seen through such crap, i was really compelled to turn it off and start seeing some other film. It was that bad for me, not because it was disturbing, but because it was disturbingly idiotic and pretentious.

this review from imdb sums it up for me:

Don't let anyone tell you you're close-minded if you hated this movie. This movie was, beyond an inkling of a flicker of a shadow of a doubt, egregiously awful. There are always going to be wannabe artsy types out there who claim to see things other people don't; they "get" movies like Gummo, or at least they pretend to, so they can act as if they're in on something the rest of the world just isn't smart enough to understand. The truth is, though, that there is absolutely nothing to get. This movie is not innovative, nor intriguing, nor even interesting in the least. There's no underlying meaning to it at all (writer/director Harmony Korine admitted as much in an interview). It's just a loosely continuous assembly of vignettes depicting random scenes of filth, squalor, and depravity.

The movie is not a social commentary, as some have argued. It offers no insight into the lives of the people it exploits. The entire backstory-the tornado-serves only as an excuse for the rest of the thing, as if it mattered. It goes like this: first, we get to watch a shirtless boy in a bunny hood spit and urinate off an overpass; next, we meet two teenagers who ride their bikes around the desolate and dilapidated town, looking for cats they can kill and sell to a local restaurant owner; then, we're introduced to three bleach-blonde sisters who don't seem to have any parents and who busy themselves with such activities as ripping electrical tape off their bare nipples. These are the only recurring characters to speak of. Nothing they do is even remotely interesting or entertaining, though. And every other character is memorable only for the few minutes it takes the viewer to rid himself of the feeling of disgust, only to be disgusted again and again by characters he should be feeling sympathy for.

And that's really why this movie is so awful. Don't get me wrong, it'd be awful no matter what, but it wouldn't be entirely without merit if we could actually feel anything other than disdain for the characters. But these are not real people, everything is actually scripted, and none of it is believable at all.

The shock value is negligible; it's not really shocking, but even if it were, there are better movies to watch if that's what you're after. It's not innovative, either-it's actually almost a blatant rip-off of some other, more noteworthy films. It's quite obvious that the only purpose here was to be pretentious. Of course, it probably wasn't meant to be so obvious.

so definately no Gummo for me guys!

Edited by mutant
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Disturbing is quite a subjective word... anyone seen chairman of the board with carrot top!

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I find mutants open declaration of his interest in torture porn disturbing, but hey, that's just me.

Edit: on second thoughts - maybe I have misinterpreted the definition. I reeeeally don't want to google torture porn to find out.

Hopefully someone can clarify for me, if torture porn means something other than I had assumed.

Maybe its just like "the good stuff" for those who really like morbid stuff.

If that's the case I'm a lot less disturbed, and apologise for my assumption.

Melding sexuality with horror and morbidity takes things to a whole new level of wrong for me.

The most disturbing films for me have involved sexual abuse and I really don't understand why anyone would want to watch a movie where that nature of activity occurs.

'Happiness' made me feel sick for days. More like weeks actually. Why would someone want to watch a film where the protagonist is a pedophile? What cultural merit does that have?

Edited by Ceres
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