shonman Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I had an interesting thought...could it be possible.....through tissue culture....in a place where such things are permitted..TO splice the genes that produce the trichomes in medicinal herb,with a Sundew plantand end up with a sundew that has giant medicinal trichomes? Edited January 10, 2014 by shonman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimzy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm reticent to say it's impossible, but it would be very difficult. You're first major hurdle would be to identify the gene(s) responsible for your medicinal compounds. Very rarely is a medicinal compound a one gene show, especially in plants - most are a side product of complex biochemical pathway involving many genes and gene regulators.I imagine that it would be easier to generate a plasmid with the genes for the major protein players. You could insert this plasmid into a host E. coli strain relatively easily for replication and transcription. Maybe if you provide the bacteria with the base compounds of the biochemical pathway you would get your end product. There are many variables at play, indeed this would probably represent 2-3 years work and a PhD 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboy 2.0 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) NoEDIT - a lot of genes involved, and initiation required at the right time.Don't go Mephisto and make four arsed monkeys...lolhttps://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://www.djpostl.com/wp-content/uploads/1999/10/4assmonkey1-300x192.jpg&key=c37471401239f8d0dc06e7f1e25faf3ee32284da2d41b8261b32eecd35b020f8 Edited January 10, 2014 by waterboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Well, it is an interesting thought.How about this, it might be relatively 'simpler'.....To take a piece of bud, or leaf tissue with trichomes...again, only where legal and medicinally appropriate of course,And for the sake of medicine and science....,,,,and the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers....To cause the cells of this tissue, to divide, and continue dividing.....until you either had a carpet of flat plant tissue with trichomes,Fed by the usual micro propagation methods.....or, for example, kept a bud dividing it's cells , Until it could fill up a ten gallon aquarium....Thus having maybe a one kg, square dense seedless bud....Someday, these things will be possible, if not now......how....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Water boy.......four assed sheep might be more popular?Mimzy.......PhD is over rated, but the time frame is probably correct, or if it's like everything else I do...It would take longer than I expect. Edited January 10, 2014 by shonman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboy 2.0 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Lol...four arsed sheep might be the goYour point above has more merit, but its gunna take a bit of work to get your hypothetical going when really where legal you just grow a shitload of chronic.....However if one were serious ....I'd be looking down the path of liquid culture Edited January 10, 2014 by waterboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) So true.But imagine how cool it would be.....a ten gallon , square bud!Or a carpet of trichomes, that would replenish themselves..... Edited January 10, 2014 by shonman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I have considered liquid culture.Much has been done that way.Like, they have done ginseng root in liquid culture,And gotten pounds in six weeks,with all the actives.I mean seriously....if we can put a man on the moon....oh, sorry, that's old news....,I mean....if we can breed sheep that have spider silk for milk....,http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/photos/12-bizarre-examples-of-genetic-engineering/web-spinning-goatsOr glow in the dark rabbitshttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-video/10244843/Glow-in-the-dark-rabbits-created-by-scientists.htmlOr glow in the dark cats.....http://t.nbcnews.com/science/cloned-cats-glow-6C10405337?franchiseSlug=sciencemainHow far out can my idea be?(Inhales loudly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Well, it would be comparatively simple,To produce glow in the dark Bufo Alvarius...Maybe they would be popular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimzy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Haha tell me about it Shonan! I'm over mine, and I'm only 9 months in. I like the tissue culture idea, although I'm not sure plant cells like forming a monoculture as readily as animal cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklight Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 No. At this point in the technology it is unlikely to work like that. What you're proposing is the plant equivalent of throwing a bunch of engine components into the air and having them land as a functional carMultiple genes would code for the formation and chemical composition of the trichomesYou would need to isolate and identify their function both individually and collectively by inserting them into a model plant such as ArabidposisOnce that's done ( I have made it sound much simpler than it is. Much. ) the gene/s would have to be inserted into your sundew genome. Right now the insertion teks mean that the introduction into the genome is entirely random. Position can affect function, so there is no telling what the result would be to any regenerated Sundew plants, should you get anyJust no. Not now. Not for a while 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I always very much appreciate your insights and replying to my posts on occasion Darklight!You have been very helpful to me on my path of propagation.I have over 100 functionaly sterile Kratom ex plants now....I am addicted to micro propagation, am spending rent money on test tube, caps and racks now...Where is Micropropagators Anonymous?Well, my other idea is relatively more straightforward.....but seriously.....I would isolate the correct genes if I was trying that sundew thing....in a perfect world where I had all the time and resources in the universe..I would Not just throw it together randomly.I see what you mean though.....there is quite a lot to it.but they have created the glow in the dark cats, goats that have spider silk milk, yeast that produces rattlesnake venom, etc ....how far out is that?( a truly frightening yeast infection that would be!)A more straightforward. Tech.....possibly could be to'Just' keep on feeding and dividing / reproducing the cells in a bud,Until it either makes a carpet of trichomes, that keep replenishing,...Or say, put the bud in a ten gallon aquarium, and keep the cells dividingUntil it makes a giant rectangular brick/ bud, dense and seedless.Yes, I know,...just do it the normal way,,where allowed why bother etc,Also cool, would be isolated giant trichomes, sticking out of a nutrient medium, with a single marble sizes drop of pure medicine on the end... Edited January 11, 2014 by shonman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/10/australias-national-science-agency-apologises-to-girl-for-failing-to-create-fire-breathing-dragon/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianDreaming Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Yeasts are complex enough to be able to produce the things you're asking about. It was a long time ago, but I read an article about the possibility of using other fast growing plants, animals, bacteria etc. to produce various useful chemicals. They use E. coli for lots of bacterial gene experiments, but apparently yeast was the top candidate for the experiments you've mentioned. Edited January 13, 2014 by IndianDreaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwalker. Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I admire your enthusiasm Shonman................I'm really keen on home tissue culture.............but the equipment needed to do a lot of what you speculate.............many research labs struggle to afford..............though I did read of some crowd sourcing project of a cheap hand held laser spectrometer. Other than that, I find these kind of situations are best approached, with a shot gun approach and hope for the best.......go for random choas and high turn over......you may not get what you want .....but you may get something that's of interest.In this case you should throw in some mutagens and shot cells (high velocity) together....then cell culture the mix............................and of course even if you were able to drop a gene where you wanted it.....there's still the epi genetic issues ...expression rates........so go blind and just blast them...........as many as you can. Edited January 13, 2014 by Dreamwalker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklight Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm really keen on home tissue culture but the equipment needed to do a lot of what you speculate many research labs struggle to affordOther than that, I find these kind of situations are best approached, with a shot gun approach and hope for the best go for random choas and high turn over you may not get what you want .....but you may get something that's of interest....and of course even if you were able to drop a gene where you wanted it there's still the epi genetic issues, expression rates so go blind and just blast them as many as you can.Above all Shonman, pay attention to the above!For every glow in the dark rabbit out there there are thousands of experiments which got nowhere. Thousands of biologists sobbing quietly into their coffee all over the world ;) There is no scientific procedure whereby it is compulsary- and certainly not a requirement for commercial labs- to publish negative results ( however hepful they would be ). So instead of thinking " Oh, it's been done, it must be easy " try substituting " How many publications have I seen which quote this result and use an identical or similar protocolPlease note- as of this date I am unaware of any genetic modification procedure which would insert your genes of interest into the genome in a controlled manner. AFAIK insertion takes place at entirely random points in the genome. No matter how careful you are. Or how cool your idea. This may change in the future. So every single modification event- for example there may be six or seven per petri dish once the selection media has weeded out non-transformed cells- needs to be regenerated to test the effect the insertion has had on the genome, as each event may have inserted the gene into a different place on the genomeYes- shotgun it, throw a few teks at it. But yes, don't expect any results which will make any sense. If you're working on species no-one else has a protocol for a large amount of luck is involved. Keep good notes.Shonman I have exactly nil idea why you are wasting time looking for results using more extreme in-vitro teks when you have only mastered TC in one or two species. Why don't you stick with what you have done and rack up a good success rate and become fluent in those teks first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Why do I think this stiff up, you ask?Because I have zero social life probably!I was really just daydreaming here,In real life I am just working with micro propagating a few plants...Mitragyna specious, ginseng, goldenseal (soon), B. Caapi, and what the heck, a few sinuicbi, just for fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklight Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPRA couple of months later and I was wrong already. Love it :DBy delivering the Cas9 protein and appropriate guide RNAs into a cell, the organism's genome can be cut at any desired location.From memory, the first clinical application was in trials for gene therapy against adult leukemia, with a high success rate. Can't find the ref, could be wrongClinical application is the thin end of what will be a very successful GM wedge, allowing an incredible consumer acceptance of GM tech. No-one is going to tell parents of sick kids that they can't use targeted GM tech, and no-one is going to tell recovered patients that their altered genes should not be passed down to their kids. From there it's only a short stretch for GM tech to be accepted in by consumers of agricultural productsTerminator gene, anyone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology. I have always been a fan of V-GURT. Keeps the rest of the gene pool clean, no transgenes should ever be viable for replication in vivo outside their target organismThe above scenarios are Just My Opinion. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shonman Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Giant Sundew trichomes....Bricks of bud grown in aquariums...WooHoo! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklight Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Giant Sundew trichomes....Bricks of bud grown in aquariums...WooHoo!Yeah yeah... but you'll still need to know what the genes encode for, or test them in Arabidposis first https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=&key=ed93ee4b8a158835e0af19ead9c794b11af03de360911f7858b9da338588c45dMind you with all this getting simpler, pretty soon someone will have most of this down for you anyhowCall me when you can get it done before lunch ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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