What do you eat?

[nothinghead]

The discussion in tripsis' thread on gut flora got me thinking about something I've seen bits and pieces about on here... What do you eat, and why?

I was vegan for the best part of a decade before going back veggo a few years back and I've been on-and-off with dairy since then, though I'm constantly thinking of getting stricter with my diet again. Initially I started off with a few years of vego diet because I didn't like the idea of killing animals for food. Reading more up on the topic I found environmental and health reasons to get more on top of what I was eating, and factory farming was a big problem for me too. As I found more reasons to not eat meat my perspective shifted from an individualist, personal health based rationale for avoiding animal products, to one that considered the rights of other sentient beings and our collective debt to the future of the planet as more important than what I now see as a kind of narcissistic health perfectionism.

When I moved country I stayed vegan for a while, but having to reshape my diet to the local foods while being around people who thought less about food politics, as well as a general lack of discipline, meant that I eventually started eating some dairy products and eggs semi-regularly, and that's where I've been at for the last couple of years.

I've often been surprised at the seemingly few non-meat eaters that post here (put yr posts up if I'm wrong!). I'm not trying to moralise, it just strikes me as a kind of logical step for people so interested in the natural world, the politics of sustainability, living a compassionate and responsible ( ) life etc. to have strong opinions about what we should or shouldn't eat. Some of the reasons for that are:

- Most of the animals we eat are capable of complex pain and trauma responses. By buying animal products we facilitate and encourage disgraceful farming practices that can be (and often are) absolutely torturous. In my opinion we participate in the torture of these animals by proxy when we buy those products. If you want proof just check out "factory farming" on youtube. The sheer fucking brutality of what goes on in some farms might be too much if you've not seen it before (trigger warning), the caging is bad enough without the burning, cutting, insemination, removal of progeny etc.

- Farming animals for meat entails a huge loss of biodiversity and forested areas in the areas cleared for farming and for growing fodder. These farms are not uncommonly built on land violently stolen or inequitably taken from the local peoples. To me that means that when we create markets for those products by buying them that we're participating in the ongoing colonialisation of some of the world's most disenfranchised peoples (of course you're likely to be a part of this no matter what your diet is like, but you can try to reduce impact through consumption habits, or more importantly through activism). Environmental justice looks at the way our environmental practices (including, of course, our diets) impact different groups of people differently (i.e. the rich rarely pay the price for our collective irresponsibility).

- The excess of the sheer scale of meat production is pretty scary. Animal excrement (and all the shit (no pun intended) like antibiotics in it) washes in massive amounts into waterways, oceans, even getting into groundwater. One of the problems identified with this is algal blooms caused by the excess nutrients (nitrogen, phos) in the water. The blooms suck the oxygen out of the water and leave a trail of anaerobic destruction in their wake.

- The consolidation and spread of diseases and pests that thrive in the cramped, unsanitary conditions of factory farms. These are more likely to cause harm to the people poor enough that they live near the farms. Speaking of that, the people employed on the farms often have poor pay and dangerous conditions.

- Meat is inefficient to produce in terms of water and land mass compared with beans and veggies. We're gonna need that land mass, and we're definitely gonna need that water!

- Most of the above has to do with industrial practices and collective effects, but I also feel strongly that non-human animals are sentient beings capable of suffering and deserving of their own rights as co-inhabitants of the planet. I'd rather not think of them as resources sitting around waiting to be eaten - especially when it's unnecessary.

All that said, I'm not completely opposed to eating meat. I think it'd be great if the majority started eating meat just a couple of times a week. I think the dogma of vegetarianism and especially the self-righteousness associated with veganism and its strong identity politics create a false dichotomy between animal and non-animal diets and can discourage people from improving their food-choices without making a complete dietary overhaul. A lot of people who do feel obliged to "go vegan" rather than just consuming less animal products and make a drastic dietary change fail to integrate the change and then associate the attempt to improve their food choices with failure and get stuck in bad habits instead.

What do youse think?

[MikeyMagic]

You are hitting the nail right on the head Raketemensch!

Everyone eats!

IMO anyone concerned about "environmental" issues is a bit hypocritical to gloss over this subject.

We are what we eat after all..

As you mentioned economic voting is one of the most powerful tools we posses for change.

Even just eating a little less meat has a huge impact!

I remember hearing Dr Karl on Triple J state the 1 kg of beef requires something like (dont quote me) 1000 ltrs or more water to produce!

I did go on a very strict but not well researched or structured vegitarian diet for the last three or four years but between not having researched it or structured it enough, lots of physical activity and some dam cold winters (I have no air-con and live in a (virtual) shoe box with holes poked in it) I ended up losing all my body fat and found it difficult to keep warm!

So I ended up caving in to some meat. Mostly fish, some duck (I figured they are a bit harder to factory farm but please correct me if I'm wrong), kangaroo (this I think is a much more suitable meat considering they do less topsoil damage than hooved animals in Australia and tend to get culled anyway).

Sprouts are an awesome substitute for for meat, combining two different types will form the essential amino acids required to form protein.

There is a fantastic book by Isabelle Shipard on sprouts:

https://herbsarespecial.com.au/about-isabells-sprout-book.html

Anyone who is in dispute that our current food production systems have plataued, whilst our children breeding children make for an exponentially increasing demands should read "The great food gamble" by John Humphrys.

[incognito]

I am an opportunistic feeder. Ill eat whatever's available. I draw the line at offal- though an partial to a bit of black pudding (blood sausage) every now and then. Love my vegies love my fruit love my meat , love my dairy love my pasta.

[glimpse]

no offence meant....just a happy little tune

 

[waterboy 2.0]

Omnivore, hunter and gatherer, gardener.

Of my meat products they are mostly either wild harvested,or grown and cared for on property. I generally know my meat from a living entity to a processed resource. The world is a resource in my eyes although there are some cultural taboos, although many of them are seasonal in nature to provide some sustainability.

I eat more native animals that have populations skewed larger than natural here, and pest species than the average bear I know.

I am what I eat.....and I am my environment.

Of the farms I go onto for work I've got to say the concept of "torture" I see very rarely down here. And when I have it has been through neglect during periods of "drought".

The concept of "torture" I find a bit hard to absorb....however If I do come across a producer deliberately harming animals I would kick his/her arse. Same goes for hunters and fisherfolk....

I got to say if anyone who has an issue with red meat production and thinks industrial/production fish welfare is ok better go and spend some days on a fishing boat or have a good look at an aquaculture facility.

I have no issue with those that have removed meat from their diets, I do have an issue when they lump all meat eaters together under their ethics of meat use (of which some have none and meat comes in packets), which encompasses a broad range of views.

I do have" blood on my hands"....but thats the fact and reality of meat as a food. I also understand that not everyone can take such an approach.

[MikeyMagic]

no offence meant....just a happy little tune

 

'tis funny.

But back to the topic, or dose this constitute your opinion on the subject?

Your personal feelings / diet are unclear.

[goneski]

If there's any species of animal that deserves to be eaten, it's humans. Bring on Soylent Green

[bogfrog]

I think had a better ethos towards food as a child compared to what I have now.

When I was four years old, my dad turned a beloved pet chicken into chicken soup and served it up for dinner one evening without notifying me.

Once I found out I was horrified, because I loved the chickens, my parents would struggle to get me to leave the chooks to come inside at night, I would have slept in the henhouse if they had let me.

That was that, I became a vegetarian, with the declaration "animals are my friends, you don't eat your friends, so why should I eat mine"

I was almost vegan really, because I couldn't overcome the psychological barrier that eggs turned into baby chickens and milk was meant for baby cows. Sometimes I would have a little cheese, fresh goat's milk or goat's feta, but only very rarely.

I was never one of those preachy vegetarians. I had my own reasoning not to eat meat, and I stood by it, but what other people ate wasn't something I was concerned about.

I remained a vigilant vego until 12, when I slowly began introducing (ironically) chicken into my diet. Several years later came the introduction to bacon, years after that I finally got the courage to try fish, and only very recently have I been able to eat a little mince, but even then, meat does gross me out a bit. I can't touch raw meat, I hate the smell of it cooking and I can't stand chewy, sinewy, fatty bits and generally only eat meat a couple of times per week, if that.

I try to only eat free range meat, although I have been more lax than I would have liked lately.

Free range eggs are a must if I eat eggs. Again it's the psychological barrier that stops me, I can't enjoy caged eggs because I get all caught up in thinking about how miserable the chickens who laid them are, how horrible factory farming is and how powerless I feel to change that.

So in a way, I recognise that buying free range meat and eggs is assisting me to hide from thinking of the horrors of factory farming, which realistically does nothing at all to help.

But hey, alteast I don't endorse the products and the processes by spending my money on it. (Edit: damn it I can't say this, I just had a curry chicken pie which I can almost guarantee was not free range chook, but I don't spend much money on meat, and when I do it's free range atleast 70% of the time.)

Other than meagre quantities of meat I eat a lot of home-made bread, rice, pasta, cous-cous, veges, fruit and salad.

I need to get my juicer back into action, freshly squeezed fruit and vege juice is AWESOME!

I'm gradually eliminating excess sugar and nutritionally dead junk foods, but it's a work in progress.

Cool idea for a thread, and thanks for bringing it up Raketemensch, as this is something all of us should be considering more carefully.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Ceres

[C_T]

what do i eat? well its a long story. i grew up very limited diet, couldnt handle the taste of alot of foods, until teens was weetbix with mountains of sugar, apples, cheese sambo. lived off that.

was 24 and went through a midlife chrisis, decided to start researching food and nutrition. that was 11yrs ago and it still evolves every day. in that time i've read all the books, tried every diet. started taking bodybuilding serious because i liked the energy and endorphins, but got sucked into the supplement market lies and so pretty much tried all the products, did more research, last 5yrs removed all the bullshit and just concentrate on whole foods, making sure i prepare everything myself by my hands.

that was the best move for me, having a fridge full of prepared meals, it makes easy choices a no-brainer.

vegetables, salads, fruits, quinoa, couscous, eggs, salmon, tuna. not much chicken or beef or pork.

biggest effort i make is limiting bread, dairy, sugar.

my fav meat atm is tuna with sesame seeds, served with salad and baby spinich, or couscous/quinoa/potato, or vege or bit of all.

[LokStok]

omnivore.

only self grown or certified organic or trusted source fruit, veg & meat & eggs. Very little beef & pig, nil lamb, mostly hogget/mutton. some poultry.

occasional wild harvest fish preferably by me, but usually not. No tuna product, purely for sustainability (non) reasons.

no wholegrain products- so no breads, pasta & other processed gluten-bearing crap.

no vegetable oils, instead self prepared lard, coconut oil.

Butter, small amount of cheese, but nil milk

around 1kg raw honey per week (between 2 of us)

beer

an average meal of ours consists of roughly 20-30% meat 70-80% plant (as much raw as possible)

We made a serious conscious choice a few years ago to treat what we consume as our most important priority in financial & time allocation

planning, as opposed to the preceding life-long conditioning of the exact opposite. I still have reactions triggered by that 'cheapest is best'

thing when I'm buying $6/kg tomatoes etc.

[tipz]

In the process of converting to Vegetarian. I still occasionally eat fish ( only fish that I catch myself which I have an abundant access to )

I chose to follow this path for a multitude of reasons. Spiritual, environmental and health. ( it may be psychosomatic but my meditation practices have really accelerated since I have changed my diet )

I'm still undecided on the vegan lifestyle. I suppose as I progress to full vegetarian I may give it a go and see how it works for me. I think that way I can objectively decide on It's merits. I think I may end up eating eggs from my own freerange chickens and boycotting dairy for various reasons.

I have been following this guy on youtube. He is such a legend - but anyone arguing that a vegan lifestyle does not allow a healthy existence should watch this guy. Mind you - he does supplement with vitamin B shots and eats around 30 bananas a day. LOL

the guy is testament to being both vegan and being in peak physical health and at the very least is quite entertaining.

I really like WB's approach to meat eating. So much more sustainable and healthy.

All of this is really just a personal opinion and what seems right to me at this point in time. I'm not up for a debate as there is no "right or wrong" and It is definitely quite a divisive topic.

( edit ) I hear what your saying about juicing Ceres, I recently purchased a really good cold press juicer and I would recommend it to anyone )

Edited December 14, 2013 by cacti jihadist

[goneski]

On a more serious note, I'm a meat eater but try not to eat much. The most I might have is a wrap with ham or turkey. I don't go for full-blown steaks, sausages, etc anymore. My partner is a vegetarian, so I have severely limited my meat intake.

I suppose it probably wouldn't take much for me to convert to full vegetarian at this stage. Basically, I'd just be cutting out meats from my lunch wraps / sandwiches.

Generally, my diet is fairly horrible. Too many microwave meals, processed foods, etc. I suck at cooking.

Edited December 14, 2013 by goneski

[glimpse]

my partner is a vegan and i have dabbled in veganism over the twenty years that we have been together.....i havent been able to stick to it for more than 2-3 months though

i kind of lean towards vegetarian but am definitely not a vego. i eat mainly vegies, fresh and dried fruit, nuts and grains and a little fish and chicken(about 150g every second day) but every now and then (about once or occasionally twice a week) i CRAVE red meat.

i live a really active lifestyle and i kind of go by the theory that my body tells me what it needs when it needs it... if i pay attention.

i have been fighting a cheese toastie addiction for at least 25 years and yes i do feel guilt in regards to the molestation of the poor bovines that feed my addiction on top of the guilt felt for the animals that give their lives to feed my meat cravings......but i do try to source the animal products as ethically as i can......within my budget ....(which is a whole nother kettle of fish)

also proud to have two kids under 9 that are disgusted at the idea of eating anything other than wholefoods and by their own choice would not go near a fastfood restaraunt...........hmmmm does that help to even out my meat'n'cheese karma?

and that tuna looks amazing C_T

[Xenodimensional]

I am herbivorous. I try to make as much of that raw as possible but do love me some cooked food as well.

[Subaeruginosin]

I suppose it probably wouldn't take much for me to convert to full vegetarian at this stage. Basically, I'd just be cutting out meats from my lunch wraps / sandwiches.

You can get some pretty awesome vegetarian products from the supermarket these days that go really good in sandwiches and such. I use soyco tofu I get from Woolworth in all my sandwiches, it comes in perfect slices and the one I get is marinated in a peanut satay sauce, tastes absolutely lush!

[gtarman]

I used to be vegan in high school, but I learned more as I grew up and left that behind. It's important to note that the environmental unsustainability of meat refers to the intensively (factory) farmed grain-fed meet.

Naturally raised grass-fed beef sourced locally is actually quite sustainable. A lot of people in the vegan boat don't realize that pretty much anything produced in a factory-farming system is unsustainable and bad for the environment, including the chick peas and lentils and soybeans that make up a hefty chunk of the veggo diet farmed in land-degrading monocultures that require huge amounts of water and energy inputs to make them work.

The reason grain-fed beef is less sustainable is that it's essentially double dipping - they have to grow the grain in the above monoculture system and then transport it to the cattle and feed it to them. I believe grain-fed cattle also require more water because they're not getting as much moisture from grain feed as they would be from live grass.

There are arguments for and against, and there are other ways of doing things that could be better. But I don't buy into the black-and-white view that "meat is bad and unsustainable". It's also hard to have calm and rational discussions about these things generally though because most of the time veggo's feel very strongly about not eating meat regardless of the pragmatic concerns - I know I certainly did back in the day.

And re: raw food diets - from the reading I've done a lot of that stuff is based on bad science, or rather incorrectly interpreted science. A lot of the studies the idea is based around are animal trials with animals that have completely different digestive processes to humans - cats for example get sick without a particular nutrient found in raw meat, but humans don't need it (we make our own...can't remember which nutrient it was but google should be able to tell).

Some foods are definitely better for you raw and retain more of their nutrients...but many are actually significantly worse for you raw due to things like oxalic acid (which is in spinach among many other things) and cyanogenic compunds present in many things like green beans that are only broken down by cooking.

Beans are another example of a plant that contains what are known as "anti-nutrients" that make it intentionally harder to ingest the plant and make it more difficult to digest (hence the gas associated with beans). Cooking lessens the quantities of these as well. So again...there's something to be said for both sides but definitely isn't black and white

Edited December 14, 2013 by gtarman

[Subaeruginosin]

Naturally raised grass-fed beef sourced locally is actually quite sustainable.

The problem you have neglected to consider is that naturally raised grass feed beef sourced locally is simply not a viable option for the majority of people. With population growth & meat consumption being what it is the only way they can sustain the industry is by factory farming. But like you have conceded factory farming is simply not sustainable.

I’m not personally an extremist on these issues any more and am only really a vegetarian now because I believe it keeps me lean and plus eating meat simply because it taste nice seems illogical to me, kind of like shooting smack just because it would feel good.

To be perfectly frank I just want to live out my life in peace and I really don’t care much about all the politics and such these days. But nevertheless, observing how us humans are producing meat and raping the ocean of fish like we are is seriously like watching a massive train collusion in slow motion.

[Sallubrious]

I feel like I've already offended more than my share of members lately so I'll stay out of the ethical debate for now.

I just came off a keto diet and had really good results with it. It was never intended as a long term lifestyle choice, I did it mostly to self diagnose an insulin resistance issue I was having. Now I'm eating carbs again the issue hasn't returned.

After re-hydration and refueling with carbs for a week I've lost almost 5 kilos of fat (and admittedly some muscle) and now I'm down to about 10% bf. During the keto I lost no strength and now I've started eating carbs again I'm approx 5% stronger in most areas. That's a massive strength gain in such a short time for someone my age that has been weight training for years. I can't really explain that, maybe my determination to push the same numbers during keto resulted in some degree of neuro muscular compensation.

Now I'm eating a fairly simple diet where I don't eat a great deal through the day and then overcompensate with a large meal at night. It's not quite as extreme as the warrior diet or an eat stop eat philosophy but similar in some respects.

I try to source grass fed beef and I also eat a lot of real free range eggs from a local organic farmer I know & trust. I drink milk, but most of it has been cultured with Kefir.

A large part of my evening meal is fresh veges, I almost always have Kale with several other veges and one diced boiled potato.

I do a lot of very intense weight training, so I do increase my protein to compensate. Many health authorities will tell you it's not needed but the RDI just wasn't working for me. I found the RDI stated by most governments wasn't enough with my weight training and I was getting a lot of muscle strains and injuries. I don't to go to extremes with protein intake like some bodybuilders as my goal isn't to bulk up, just to stay fit and healthy and gradually build strength.

I base my carbohydrate intake on my activity levels and I eat a lot of fat - coconut oil, ghee, butter and cold pressed olive oil.

I found this guys vids a while ago and I use his guidelines as a starting point for my food choices and it's working quite well.

 

[gtarman]

The problem you have neglected to consider is that naturally raised grass feed beef sourced locally is simply not a viable option for the majority of people.

I actually thought about adding that as a postcript, but didn't. I am aware of this - and that due to the size of the global population of humans that grassfed beef probably isn't a viable option for everyone - but again, that goes for pretty much anything produced sustainably including organic grains fruit veg etc. The sheer amount of humans living on the earth dictates that the only way we can feed everyone in the coming decades (or even now, at 7 billion) is massive yields from industrial agricultural systems. That's why the 'green revolution' of industrializing agriculture in the third world is credited as saving a billion lives. As nice as it would be to see everyone everywhere go organic and permaculture, overall it's not viable anymore.

Not saying that this intensive farming is sustainable either, it isn't at all. But that just reflects the size of the human population being inherently unsustainable and above the carrying capacity of its environment.

Edited December 14, 2013 by gtarman

[C_T]

and now I'm down to about 10% bf.

this is what 10% on a female looks like, are you SURE your 10%? http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/danalinnbailey/

10% on a female is completely shredded, lower abdominal veins, not a bit of fat except keeping organs happy.

[gtarman]

10% for a female is actually borderline dangerous i think. women naturally have much higher bodyfat percentages than men

[Subaeruginosin]

Fairly positive Sallyd isn’t a female though. The profile’s probably just to get more attention, lol.

[incognito]

Sally is a female. And she is shredded. She has ALOT of stamina, much more than me that's for sure

[in_spirit]

10% isn't dangerous for women, they will reduce and sometimes totally stop menstruating. Get down round 6% and your looking at danger to what degree tho everyone is different. My daughter sits at 10% body fat or did, she is bulking up a bit now since becoming less active.

[Subaeruginosin]

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=36746&p=441669 Just pointing out what anyone would see if they searched though a few posts. If you want your gender hidden then you should probably just be more ambiguous about it, or just fill it in as 'not telling'.

Though, to be fair I think incognito is third gender , which is not an option anyway