brugmansia problems

[bullit]

in september last year[2012] i bought a hot pink brugmansia plant .

when i got it it looked pretty sick but i put it with a group of my brugs . after a month or so i saw my other brugs looking the same so i decided to treat all my brugs with pesticides 4 1 month ...

after all this time still no results soo i sent sum pics to steven from sacred garden angel trumpets and sum pics to ibrugs forum..

some came back [as i expected] it may be a viral disease ..

i have been holding back 4 awhile coz the plant can live with a disease giving if u give the plants optimal health [water,fert etc] but i have gave up and now ripped out most of my collection

i understand people make mistakes ..

Edited December 15, 2013 by bullit

[Pie'oh'Pah]

Do you have any photos of the sick brugs and what sign's to look out for?

[AndyAmine.]

Sorry to hear that man, I know you love your Brugs.
Its pretty common around the GC and I imagine NNSW as well, Ive seen it on a lot of brugs around these parts.
I got it on some brugs I received years ago through the forums, mostly looking like a nutrient deficiency but it wont resolve no matter how hard you try. Im about to ditch a few myself but there is one that seems totally resistant to it as are its progeny.

Whats it look like Bullit, similar to mosaic disease/virus with mottled light coloured patches on the leaves?

(Just to clarify, I got them through a member on the fourms, not from SAB)

Edited December 13, 2013 by AndyAmine.

[Torsten]

Most viral diseases are not easy to ID from an image. The ones that are would be quite obvious. So it would be good if you could post the same images here please so we can have a look.

We have no problem heres. They get affected badly by spider mite during the hot & dry part of the year, but for the rest they look perfectly normal.

So if it is a virus it might have come from another source rather than us.

But, like I said, let's have a look at the pics.

[Torsten]

I also found it curious that Steve would comment on this as I was told by some large professional nurseries in Vic that he was identified by the DPI as the source of a virus that spread throughout victorian nurseries a few years ago

Maybe he's protecting his high prices?

I'd also be careful with making such a claim before you are certain. A headline such as this will definitely affect our business and would be slanderous if it turns out to be untrue. If you had a problem, why not email us or post the pics on this forum rather than asking a competitor?

All our brugs are grown in close proximity on the same bench and we do not usually fertilise [we just repot once a year]. So the conditions are far from optimal. And yet we've never had a virus problem.

[bullit]

@ andy thanx and u r right some brugs are resillient to disease. yes i think it mosaic visus?? i have a few left [adult plant 8 years old] that dont show any signs]

but i am not holding my breath cause they can go without showing any signs then they r super healthly...

yes pics r very hard to id a viral disease..

a member on ibrugs was very helpfull . he has been growing and breeding brugs for fuken years .. i have also got sum seeds from his crosses and the plants r very healthly and show no signs of disease after beening with the others for 6 months or more????

I CANT FIND ANY PICS RIGHT NOW i think i have deleted them BUT I DO have 1 plant left with these symtoms which i am sooo scared of pulling out cause i love it

i am sorry 4 this post but i am very upset and brugs r my passion.. also i am sorry cause i cant spell or type that good .

but i know my brugs

Edited December 15, 2013 by bullit

[Torsten]

It's in my interest to get to the bottom of this as I have a lot of solancaea and obviously this would be a big issue here.

Just so you know, you can get mosaic virus by many different ways than just live plants. For example from smoking cigarettes [esp rollies], from chilies, from the tobacco weed that's everywhere on the east coast, tomatoes, etc etc.

I think what is far more likely is that your plant may have been stressed from transit and picked up the virus on arrival, as like I said, we've never had any symptoms here.

if you could show me any pics then maybe we can look for the symptoms here. Surely if you sent pics to Steve then they would be in your sent folder? Or if you posted them on a forum then they would still be there. It's not really acceptable to make such claims without any supporting evidence.

[Torsten]

I am a bit puzzled by how someone can diagnose a viral disease, but not know which virus. They all have different symptoms, with many symptoms overlapping other types of diseases.

It would be rather ironic if they claimed it was Colombian Datura Virus though.

[Bigred]

Could he post you a leaf so you could diagnose it .

[bullit]

hey i think i have deleted the old pics from my folder. [ iam still looking sorry] like i said it was 12 months ago or around that and i think i have deleted all my old pics.. i have no computer skills and have data discs with allsorts of stuff but i dont think i would keep them 1s??.. and the pics on the other forum was by personally mail .

its not datura virus!!i know all bout mosiac and i dont smoke and have all my brugs separate to my other niteshades and do spray all the time [mites etc]

sorry people but i do spray hard pesticides ..

i have also bought other niteshades after this plant[ ie belladonna and pepino] which also had this and told them about it and they said sorry and i was refunded!!!

EDIT WROTE IT WRONG!!

Edited December 15, 2013 by bullit

[Foo]

and i am not making any claims IT WAS FROM THIS PLANT!!!

You might want to edit the title of the thread then

[Torsten]

 

and i am not making any claims IT WAS FROM THIS PLANT!!!

well, actually that's exactly what you said:

"warning SAB store brugmansia hot pink brugmansia has a viral disease"

that is the topic title.

I have no problem with you raising this issue. Indeed, if you are correct then I will be extremly appreciative for pointing it out. I just think you have gone about it very poorly. You have made a clear statement of guilt, provided no evidence, apparently have no evidence, and your main advice was from someone who is apparently the source of CDV and has substantial competitive interests.

if you had simply come here as soon as you noticed the problem and dicussed it here then this would have been sorted a year ago - one way or the other.

[Torsten]

Could he post you a leaf so you could diagnose it .

FUCK NO!!!!

if it is a virus then it should not come anywhere near the farm. Not just because of the damage it could cause here, but also because the sender is liable for any consequential losses [eg other farms or nurseries going broke from it] and DPI costs & fines..

Pics would be a good start and we can take from there. If required I will organise to get samples from both my plants and bullit's sent to a plant path lab.

[Torsten]

Bullit, are you living rural or (sub)urban? Just considering other transmission vectors.

[bullit]

You might want to edit the title of the thread then

SORRY I WROTE IT WRONG LIKE I SAID I CANT TYPE THE BEST.......................

post 10! not the title the title is FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

edit i have changed the title now because i have no claims of my plants having a viral disease. sorry

Edited December 15, 2013 by bullit

[bullit]

@ T did u just change a comment without a edit??

i do live semi rural . i am sorry dude but i have lost loads of brugs from this . lik i said i do have 1 plant left that i can take pics of that was around this plant..

Edited December 12, 2013 by bullit

[Torsten]

I often have to correct minor formatting issues in other people's posts, so I have my 'show edit' set default to 'no'. If I only add things to my post without changing any meanings, then I usually don't bother putting the 'edit' in. if I change anything then I always click 'edit' [unless I guess if I forget].

sorry if that caused confusion [nothing nefarious].

Edited December 12, 2013 by Torsten

[bullit]

edit in my last post 16

[Torsten]

I have no problem with this topic if it wasn't for the way you approached it, especially the topic title.

I really feel for your loss as I've been there before too. But why wait a year to bring it up?

All I can suggest is that you get some very GOOD pics of the damage on your other plant and we'll take it from there. Please use an australian coin for size/scale reference in the images as Brugs have such variable leaf size and this could be relevant with the disease ID.

If we can't reach a concensus on what it is then I'll organise an analysis for samples from you and me. All our hot pinks are from the same tree, so if it has affected the parent plants then we'd need to start again. But if it is only in the propagation area then we'll just chuck out one production lot.

Just so you know, we have about 300 brugmansias all over the property, including in really harsh conditions where they are in clay soil, in full sun, and in winter might not get any water for 3 months. Still, no viral symptoms on any of them. That's why I really think it is unlikely to have come from here.

We'll definitely get to the bottom of this.

[Foo]

SORRY I WROTE IT WRONG LIKE I SAID I CANT TYPE THE BEST.......................

post 10! not the title the title is FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just for the record, im not picking on your keyboard skills (im not much better). The title of the thread is misleading if i go by your comments in post 10.

[Torsten]

If you have technical poblems changing the title then let me or one of the mods know and we'll fix it. I won't change it unless you request it . But be aware that if you leae it as it is and you turn out to be wrong you'll have a shitload of karma and liability to deal with.

For example, what if other members pull up their imperfect looking plants in response to your claim, will you reimburse them? How about the commercial nurseries we supply? You'd want to be pretty damn certain and have some proof before you open that can of worms.

Like I said, if it turns out you are correct then you can make as many claims as you like on every plant forum and I won't object.

You have to understand that this is not just my livelihood, but also my pride and joy. I presume it would be like me making a public and unsubstantiated claim that you carelessly inbreed your dogs and that they have genetic faults,. . Some of the damage is already done because many who read that headline may not actually bother reading the thread or will come back to it once proof [either way] is available. It is also already on google so will be there for weeks or months.

[Halcyon Daze]

Plant viruses are really common. Most Solonacae carry a variety of viruses continuously but don't show it. Bad ones occasionally break out but it is often overcome with healthy growing conditions.

I've been growing different brugs, nicotianas, and other solonacae for years with no virus problems ever.

Just remember Bullit, Brugs lovely new foliage gets shabby pretty quick.

Can you describe what the symptoms looked like.

I wouldn't get too worried mate, Quarantine the bad ones and see how they go after a few months.

[bullit]

@ t i have opened the can of worms .. i can deal with plants arriving with mite / scale etc .

pic from the last 2 sic brugs i have.. taking this morning dont worry bout the holes in the leaves that was from hail..

EDIT <> edit pics which were taking today [13.12.13] these pics do resemble sum mite damage and is hard to tell that they show a viral disease.. the problem plant has been discarded with many others...

Edited December 15, 2013 by bullit

[Torsten]

First pic you are not showing any surface properly so hard to tell what's what. Doesn't look like anything is wrong though, except for some mild pigment difference between vein areas and non-vein areas. However this is not viral. Viral chlorosis effects are never symmetrical and rarely affect the whole leaf evenly, which is what your problem is. It almost looks like a micro nutrient deficiency. It could also be pesticide chlorosis - all our plants look like that even if we treat them with strong pyrethrum.

Pic 2,3 and 4 looks interesting, but not viral. Would need a high res image of the underside of the leaves too.

Pic 5 is deformation damage from sap suckers that target veins [eg aphids].

How often do you treat your plants with pesticides and what do you use?

I think I have been more than patient about the title issue. You can't just make spurious accusations without providing any proof, and these images are definitely no proof. So, if this turns out to be an incorrect and slanderous statement, I am giving you notice that I will proceed with legal action. You can't on one hand say in the thread that you are not making any claims, but then make exactly that claim in the title that everyone sees.

[Torsten]

The fact that new leaves have the chlorosis problem much worse than older leaves indicates it is a nutrient deficiency. Young leaves are more susceptible to nutrient problems, but often largely correct the problem as they mature. A virus on the other hand gets worse as the leaf gets older. So you have actually provied good evidence here that this can't be viral.

The most likely cause of chlorosis is low iron or low magnesium. And this is normally not caused by their lack, but by the wrong pH, which locks them up. Chemical fertilsiers often cause these imbalances.

Typical low magnesium features in this image. you can see how the chlorosis is the same all over the leaf and is the worst the greater the distance is from a vein. Compare that with mosaic virus in the image further down where you can see that besides the darkish veins, there are also dark patches in the spaces which are far from veins. .

mosaic virus