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The Corroboree

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Heya everyone,

Just thought I'd take the opportunity to hopefully benefit from any and all of the advice you might be able to offer to a guy keen on the whole thing but a complete novice. I've made a nice sum from my earlier investments into Bitcoin and am now looking to branch out a portion of that money into a more physical and workable revenue stream.

I'd be enormously grateful for anything you might be able to contribute!

I'll break it down so maybe any of your thoughts can be more easily directed.

I'm looking into getting some property. Mostly plant based agriculture with maybe chickens or something for eggs (possibly beekeeping).

Land between $50,000 - $500,000..with the upper end only if myself and friends pool funds. Looking to start this as in investment / 'gap year' opportunity. Spending a year minimum on building and renovating a farm into a scalable residents that provides through being a permaculture property.

How many people do you think would be manageable? What kind of acreage? Sought after professions/expertise? Other expansions to this I might have overlooked? Hidden costs? Upkeep? Solar / wind / ??? integration and initial costs?

Being from an I.T background I'm interested in setting up some semi automated systems based on aquaponic and hydroponic setups. Large scale edible mushroom production would also be quite viable.

Is this a dangerous idea to be undertaken by a relatively amature hobbyist such as myself.

What would be good crops? Locations (Vic)? Your experiences?

Does anyone here own any large properties that's for farming or was previously?

I'm also a little concerned (a lot really) about locations that are prone to bush fires... Not sure how to go about minimising that risk factor.


Ok before I make this look any worse... I'll finish now before massacring your eyes with this shocking formatting.

Hope to hear ya ideas :D

LUWA ._.

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Anybody know the current stance of hemp growing in victoria? I've found some licensing stuff for NSW ( http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/broadacre/summer-crops/fibres/hemp/commercial-production) but nothing relating to my needs...

Hempcrete sounds like a insainly good rural building material... fire retardant, C02 absorber as lime petrifies, breathing insulating walls that don't rot from moisture.... Hard to get an idea of the prices though..

Anyone done any research on getting a hemp growing license in Vic that could point me in the right direction?

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how much out put are you wanting to yield from your aquaponic hydroponics set ups i can help you design them

and give you a idea of cost involved

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Nice link thanks!

With the AqPon, we're looking to start small and build progressivly in modules. Probs starting with 1 large tank and a few grow beds but also expanding that with some artifical ponds using holes + pond liner for when we're read to introduce some edible fish. Any idea what the go is with millions of small fish or a small amt of bign's...

Honestly I'm clueless as to even an estimate cost of containers +plumbing + maint + time. Gimmie a week for my to be over and I'll flesh out these ideas far more lucidly, rather than off the top.

thanks guys

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Looks like you need a licence to grow hemp in Vic..there didn't seem to be much info on how the process works that I could find but I didn't look too hard

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Yea, It looks pretty complicated...as well with a lot of upfront fee's for applying for approval that might get denied.

I've been looking more into concrete alternatives... Using things like paper (see papercrete), alt plant fibers (coir, sawdust, ***anyone got any other thoughts on a high yield fibrous cellulose plant that can grow in Vic regions???

These all seem really cool (to me) ... bio matter + fraction of norm cement + lime binder = cheap, light, ecofriendly and importantly massivly versattile and useful breathable building materials..that can be cast into your own bricks, walls, xyz shapes... Although not quiteeee as strong as regular cement blocks so...Load bearing encased struts would be safest when needing that kinda building.


I've absolutely fallen in love with the idea of shipping container homes too! I had no idea they could be renovated so elegantly!

Check these out
http://containercabins.com.au/products/container-homes/rural-home/
284 sqm 5 bed/ 2 bath ~$185,000 ex-factory

drooling at the thought of living off the grid self sufficiently in one of these castles while building towards a permaculture setup and adding extensions with the aforementioned biocrete building blocks.


As well as maybe getting an renovated shipping container ~$3-4000 and try a DIY.


I don't even know where to begin to see how viable that is in relation to building and planning permits... and what the time and money costs they involve...

Out of curiosity....Does anyone have an idea of the penalties of building and what not rurally without council approval? Not my plan to. As I'd prefer not to toe the line on my early steps into the property game.
:)
Please to contribute though! I'd love to starts a more lively discussion here, collaborative efforts tend to yield the best results :)

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i live in area where lots of people build without council approval. The local council seems to only work on complaints. saying that they have been to my house being all proactive a few years ago, they just made me fix up my greywater a bit better and didn't look at the house.

All councils are different and they change over time also.

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Yea I was thinking It would make it impossible to sell unless done privately because I'd never be able to give the documents corresponding to what's there... Ugh, can't even be the king of my own land :(

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Check out cob as a building material, it's what I'd use. It's only clay and straw and sand and earth but it builds some of the most beautiful organic structures known to man, and you can't get much cheaper.

Beautiful things to live in, good for the soul...

cob-house-1.jpg

cob+house+fireplace+interior.jpg

105391678.5MCfbbZv.cozykitchen.jpg

Cob_House_4.jpg

c3-300x225.jpg

gobcob-thumb.jpg

Earth_Building-8.jpg

banner-02.jpg

cob-homes-cottage-4.jpg

The world needs more of these. They remind you of how life is supposed to be, and living in them would be a daily nourishment for the soul I suspect. Sharp contrast to the ugly square "pragmatic" eye-sores that constitute modern houses these days, which also (in contrast) I suspect damage the soul to live in. Very deep and meta, I know.

Edited by gtarman
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One thing to consider may be termites. Dont know what they are like down south but here they've eaten books from my bookshelf, cover to cover in under a week.

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id say think most about water, you cant really farm much without it. Australia has a lot more droughts than floods

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Yea, that's why aquaponics appeals more to me, as you can retain and monitor your water more easily seeing as it's not just disappearing into the ground

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Water, fences, fire-proofing, wind breaks, and access roads- if they are all in place, go for it.

These are all things you will spend most of your time on if they aren't already properly set up. You may even need to demolish some stuff that is already there to do them to spec.

If you can get a acreage with all the above to start with you'll save shitloads of time and money. Windbreaks can take a good 3-5 years to grow if you put in a non-invasive species ( please do, try local ones ). You'll need windbreaks if you have any kind of windy season. Here the wind is rough and coincides with late winter or early spring and the wind dessicates the veggie patch no matter how much water you put on it

Oh, and ask at the local shop and pub about the neighbours. You mightn't get a full or truthful answer, especially if you don't speak the local dialect ;) but even a non-answer can be a useful guide. Often what you hear is more about what *isn't* said, so pay attention to that too. In some places phrases like " colourful history" mean entirely different things. In a conservative area it might mean dreadlocks. In a rougher area it means long-running feud involving midnight chainsaws where structures are razed.

Consider what industries and agriculture is around your new place already- not just on your fencelines, but nearby. If you buy near a macadamia processing plant it will prolly be hell noisy for a few months of the year. If you buy down wind from a pig farm it will prolly stink. If you buy near the community hall you may hear loud music several times a year and have lost ppl coming into your yard to ask for directions. If you buy near a forest plantation you can expect fully laden logging trucks travelling along the road. Ask your real estate agent ( as well as the pub and shop ). If you move in and demand that changes are made to an already established system, you will encounter well-deserved hostility.

The rule in the bush is if you don't like it, make a better option. Build it and they will come. Or not. No-one minds if you fail, because we all do. But absolutely no-one is interested in listening to a n00b whinge

If you can get good quality broadband then even better. Rural internet access is often complete shite. The NBN is a total joke, don't believe the hype. As bandwidth speed and quotas increase in urban areas, websites and resources will become even more thirsty by default. We will not be able to keep up out here in the bush. I have never been able to stream you-tube, for example, though that was never a problem when everyone on the planet only had 2600bps. I am close, line of sight, to a Telstra exchange and have been told there is no way we will ever get ADSL, and I pay about 2.5x urban rates for the little bandwidth I get. Satellite and 3G are the best many of us will get

Fences: have the place surveyed properly. In the past, when properties were larger and neighbours a bit more community minded, it was routine to put the fences where it was convenient for whatever reason. On a 500 acre farm it didn't matter if the fence was a couple of hundred metres out one way or the other. On a 5 acre property these days it does, but the same fenceline could still be in place from 20 years ago. And you will have to negotiate with your neighbours to get the fences redone

Access: do not get anything you have to access via a right of way through a neighbours property if you can help it. That shit often ends in disaster. You want access to the road along your property only.

What's the driveway like in the wet? There are some beautiful cheap acreage around, but lots gets abandoned because the access isn't reliable. Especially if you are planning to start a family. Walking 400m of mud and crossing a creek in the dark with small kids and shopping only holds it's romance for about two years or 1.5 rainy seasons

Skillset: Do you know how to drive a tractor or chainsaw? Two of the most valuable skills in the bush, and for acreage you'll need at least the chainsaw. If you have no experience with them, do the short courses at TAFE. Yes, you can learn to run without them, but the some of the biggest injury and death factors for new ex-urban farmers are common farming equipment. Tractors I & II and chainsaws I & II are the bare minimum. Farm machinery is dangerous, the fallacy that tractors and chainsaws must be simple because country people are simple is a lethal fallacy.
Pus tractor and chainsaw skillset will make you more employable. And give you something to talk to the local people about. You can always start a good convo anywhere by complaining about your chainsaw ;)
Added bonus: as a n00b, getting your chainsaw fixed properly and cheaply by the right person means you are either lucky or well networked
Employability is not only linked to skillset, it is linked heavily to your ability to be flexible, and network and contribute to your community. In most rural communities no one gives a fuck about your PhD in neuroscience, your passion for chakra cleansing or your past convictions for axe murdering. If you show up at community events, which initially seem ultra-daggy and take a while to get the hang of, put $20 in the hat for whatever it is they're raising money for, buy some raffle tickets and give them a hand in the kitchen, and trump it by not starting any fights -those are the skills and attributes of a long term resident. If you are an out of work neuroscientist you may need to take a job at the sandwich shop until the brain surgery market goes on the uptick
bugger, there was more, but it got nixed somehow during an edit
Having said all the negative stuff, moving rural was the absolute best accident I ever had. Seriously. I'm a better person for it, I love the community I live in and am proud to be a part of it. I'd recommend it. It's much nicer than I make it sound :D
Edited by Darklight
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Nice link thanks!

With the AqPon, we're looking to start small and build progressivly in modules. Probs starting with 1 large tank and a few grow beds but also expanding that with some artifical ponds using holes + pond liner for when we're read to introduce some edible fish. Any idea what the go is with millions of small fish or a small amt of bign's...

Honestly I'm clueless as to even an estimate cost of containers +plumbing + maint + time. Gimmie a week for my to be over and I'll flesh out these ideas far more lucidly, rather than off the top.

thanks guys

Unless the property you have in mind already ticks the boxes I've listed above, don't even think about aquaponics yet

Aquaponics is easy compared to the rest of the stuff above. It will prolly be close to your house, with access, fireproof and not contentious with your neighbours. It will also be modular.

It's far easier to build something from scratch than fix it. Fixing fences, windbreaks, fire strategies, access and broadband on 100 acres is way more expensive, and much of that will take place a fair way from the house

Fuck knows how many people I see move up here with a good idea or fantastic theory, whatever's currently fashionable. 90% of them move out within five years after a bitter divorce/ custody battle, and return to the cities, leaving the next buyer to clear out their rusting crap from around the house and paddocks. Usually these people are just a drain on everyone's resources, because they value their dream above the reality, and aren't flexible or practical. This ( and the living of an already full and interesting life ) is why most of the oldest residents tend to steer clear of the newer ones

I couldn't watch the youtube link above anyhow, as I don't have real broadband or a decent download quota, so this is all prolly just sour grapes ;)

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did any1 say dope??

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I wouldnt bother with aquaponics unless you want fish to be your main output. ie the fish are the most labour intensive, costly and fragile part of the aquaponics system- Id add aquaponics to my fish farm (if I had one) but not fish to my hydroponics farm. Hydroponics is probably what you are after. Otherwise look at vermiponics etc.

Oh yeah, dont get me wrong aquaponics is awesome! My brother works in aquaculture with a variety of things and Ive done my time on fish farms.

Great advice from darklight!

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Fuck knows how many people I see move up here with a good idea or fantastic theory, whatever's currently fashionable. 90% of them move out within five years after a bitter divorce/ custody battle, and return to the cities, leaving the next buyer to clear out their rusting crap from around the house and paddocks. Usually these people are just a drain on everyone's resources, because they value their dream above the reality, and aren't flexible or practical.

don't get me started. the area i grew up in, my family were the very first people who bought property in the district that were not one of the old pioneer farming families.. i have seen the complete transition.. & people are just getting started.. generally they fit into the 'a lot more money than sense' catagory.. but really it's astounding how completely clueless some people can be.. a common one is people (often europeans, not to be racist) who buy a property because they love that it looks like a 'beautiful natural parkland' with open grassland & few trees.. what they don't realize is that it only looks like that because it's had cattle run on it for 150 years straight.. but they don't like cows because they leave cow pats on the grass so the cows have to go, then they can't figure out why all of a sudden the scrub is taking over their property & ruining their 'beautiful parkland'

it's amazing how often people will build a cottage on a flood plain.. & then seem shocked when it gets flooded.. it's almost insulting, the way people think it's ok to move to the bush without any common sense or doing even the slightest iota of research.. though, with that said, if they're going to waste their money due to their stuck up stupidity then i won't hesitate to take a lot of their money to do simple jobs they could easily do them selves if they had the slightest bit of initiative to take seriously the life they've apparently chosen..

my whole life i have drunk the water from the creek that runs through our property.. this tiny stretch of creek on our property is THE healthiest stretch of creek in a nearly 35,000 square km catchment, the only tiny section that still has fresh water mussels, which are pretty much the primary indicator of water quality.. we have regular monitoring by biologists.. over my life ive seen it go steadily down hill, as up & downstream more & more driveways, causeways & septic systems etc go in every year & totally irresponsible hobby farming practices go on & on, usually for no reason but for the entertainment of some burnt out businessperson. generally all this stuff is done by that category of wealthy person with unrealistic dreams that simply don't relate to the real world in any way & within a couple of years they're gone & replaced by some other poor sod to repeat the process..

anyway, like i said, don't get me started, i could tell shitty stories for days.. i haven't even started. one of the last old farmers who basically owns half of the entire valley upstream from me is in the process of subdividing something like 10,000 acres to be sold very soon. it's the moment i've been dreading my entire life.. may the cosmos give me strength

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I agree!

I live in a beach on cape york in a shack. Everyone who comes here just assumes my garden grows etc, the comments are "oh wow this is amazing, Id totally live here" and I always use to tell them to do it, come live here- yet noone does. No one realises that all the small things add up and that life is different. They just want to wake up here for a week then go home.

Of late though I have realised that the future ideas of the community (nearest town is 1hr away) around here are different to my ideas for the future and Im not sure I can reconcile myself to stay for their future dream.

So Im on the lookout to- though Im thinking OS somewhere.

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What basic animals would be helpful for the production of food, plowing, manure etc? More specifically what are some low impact animals that would suit well to a hilly environment. Can you possibly feed a goat bracken you clear from your property? Is it wise to pasture an animal in a future garden bed?

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Id say fowl, goats and pigs have you covered as far as animals you raise. Youll need a horse or cow if you want to use it to plough fields properly but Id settle for pigs doing that.

Low impact is just as much to do with stocking rates as animal type.

Goats are ruminants they convert cellulose to energy, fat etc so all they need is a source of protein and cellulose. Pigs on the other hand cannot convert cellulose so need carbs and protein. Hardier breeds are your feral goats and pigs, these animals are better adapted to find food and better at using poor food sources. However there is a serious trade off in their ability to put on meat/produce milk. You probably want something in the middle, Anglo-nubian goats and large english black pigs etc. Another thing is are you going to breed them or buy them as babies and raise them. Breeding is somewhat of a pain to do it properly and means you need a larger herd plus males.

I keep my pigs in a resting garden bed when I can, let them eat the scraps and fertilise the soil (you could consider pig pellets an alternative to buying fertiliser though its more exxy). When I have the room I would build a central pen/run for the goats and pigs and then as many 1/2 acre fenced gardens around them as I could. You grow enough food for yourself, the pigs and the goats. Grow legume pastures, tubers etc on the resting beds and cycle the pigs through first then the goats after them. Then Id let the pigs strip the pasture bare and turn it over, plant it with your veg patch and cycle your old patch- or any variation there abouts.

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