Slybacon Posted November 4, 2013 As the title describes, I am interested in what your opinion is on punishment for minor possession charges. This includes all Illegal Drugs. Considerations would need take into account a range of complex situations but on a very broad level how do you think first time minor convictions should be dealt with and why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted November 4, 2013 Oh, the title says " Best Punishment Options for Minor Possession Convictions" I was hoping to see something like Possession of 1 or more dose LSD = Free gift of one gram of MDMA. That would be an excellent form of punishment But scrolling down I see you are serious 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Distracted Posted November 4, 2013 No punishment because I don't want to be punished. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Presidente Hillbillios Posted November 4, 2013 id take one lash. No conviction or fine 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gtarman Posted November 4, 2013 I chose "other", because I disagree with the whole premise of considering punishments for something that isn't morally wrong (ie, when it does no harm to others). In the majority of cases I imagine we'd be talking about here, no real harm would be done. Maybe if the person got violent after taking heaps of PCP or tropanes or ice or something, then it would be a different story. But I mean, if we're just talking about weed...how does the fact that a guy has weed in his pocket even affect anybody else? 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted November 4, 2013 Minor possession? You mean personal use only? Why should anyone be punished for that? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
at0m Posted November 4, 2013 I'm voting 'other' because my thoughts on the matter don't fit squarely into any one of those. If it's non-violent and their use isn't harming them or the people around them, I don't agree with any form of punishment - that is to say, it shouldn't be a crime at all. HOWEVER, if their use is causing physical/mental/emotional harm to others then I'd consider some form of treatment as 'punishment'. With all the money saved from wasted resources on policing small possession charges I'm sure some of it could be put back into a rehab/counseling fund for the cases described above. The treatment would have to fit the seriousness of the issue. This would have to be worked out by a group far more qualified than myself though. Perhaps a 'strike' system? Counseling -> Rehab -> Fine? A fine if they don't complete the programs? I'm not exactly sure about the details. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~shameless~ Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Other I voted, however ......read! If you continually blame drugs and alcohol for selfish behaviour , eg "I don't know why I keep smashing peoples faces in when I go out for no reason, I was drunk and did meth". I reckon you should face then severe sanctions, if you blame drugs and drink, and keep using them, your a fucking narcissistic person that needs to be dealt with and mere possession should come with fat fines and hard time. Edit- sorry atom virtually what you said , good man Edited November 4, 2013 by ~shameless~ 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Presidente Hillbillios Posted November 4, 2013 i think there will always have to be some kind of punishment. As others have said some people cant be responsible with or on some drugs. Not everything can be legalised i think. I also think that fines dont work at all, jail time causes more dramas and cost to society than its worth Rehabilitation wont work on me, because i have no problem with what im doing. Stood naked in public while i cop a lash would cost next to nothing to the tax payer and i would be very carefull there on in 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altenate Posted November 4, 2013 Hillbilios- not sure that your last suggestion is going to work! Esp combined with DL's suggestion! Standing naked & getting lashed is going to tickle more than one fancy! If not mine then I am sure others! You would get repeat offenders ..... "Hi officer, I have on me xxxxx! Can I get my MDMA now? Please lash me! I would prefer you handcuff me first though...." The hard question to ask & depending on who asks it " is it harming anyone else" ??? That's very subjective! One persons poison is another's medicine! A recurring addict or problem child ain't going to blame the drugs etc but they may.its an easy out depending on circumstances! I think personal use is just that ( personal use)but that's a can of worms question! Nice question BTW 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrubby Posted November 4, 2013 If you blame the drug for a "crime" you have committed pay the price If you a caught with a drug, with little history of violations i would say warning or optional rehabilitation programs. If you are a drug user that does not have a negative impact on your society or social group, how is punishment for possession the answer. If you drink a bottle of rum every night and beat the fuck out of your missus, you need rehab and a stint in the house with wire walls. My opinion. I hope i have not offended any wife beaters... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paradox Posted November 4, 2013 he clearly stated in the poll title that it was in regards to 'minor possession convictions' thats very clear cut. possession of small personal amounts of a substance should in no way be deemed by the law to be indicative of other misdemeanors. for agents of the law to deem otherwise without clear evidence would be discriminatory & unlawful so i chose 'no punishment' because when it comes to personal quantities of psychoactive substances thats what i think is appropriate. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiscoStu Posted November 4, 2013 i think there will always have to be some kind of punishment. As others have said some people cant be responsible with or on some drugs. Not everything can be legalised i think. there shouldn't be "drug crime", there should be crime for harmful behaviours people do on drugs, which there already is (and if drugs are involved appropriate rehab/counselling given). saying "dugs should be a crime if…." opens the door to the sort of laws we have now where innocents are punished. HOWEVER, if their use is causing physical/mental/emotional harm to others then I'd consider some form of treatment as 'punishment' as above and also - how does one determine "emotional harm"? a questionnaire? is an accusation enough? at least with physical assault there's an objective measure but emotions are inherently subjective and easily manipulative. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etherealdrifter Posted November 5, 2013 the judge(tj) "Hmmmmmm, never seen you before, therefore, a slap on the wrist for not sharing" defendent(d)"hmmmm cheers" six months later tj:"Oh no you again, i like you but please! (Referral for some counselling) d: cheers bro i know your son. 12months later tj: "Oh fark, it's my dealer... d: lol, love you pops without seeming blase~ i think tj needs counselling clinks glasses of green fairy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted November 11, 2013 I have not voted, but I like the Idea of GPS monitoring and regular drug testing. If you have an addiction this could be a detterent and a way of proving you can live functionally and have nothing to hide. If we had no punishment for possesion of drugs of addiction then we would see a lot more addicts. I agree some things should carry no punishment, but the question refers to convictions meaning convictions under the current set up. This would make no distinction between say Weed, Meth and H. So therefore would need a fair system of punishment that allows people with a conviction to prove they are normal functional people and also allows the general public to see action from the lawmakers. This would be something your lawyer could recommend as senticing after the conviction and would be a good alterative to add to the current system, I for one would take this over jail time or suspended jail time, I guess it depends how your conviction is recorded. This seems to be a nice middle point between costs, risks, public perception and fairness. What do you think, I didn't want to skew the results yet.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigred Posted November 11, 2013 problems like repeat possession should be seen as a medical problem for addicts. But a true point is a lot of drug users dont get caught and you want treatment to be voluntary and have solution not a cure. But there is no silver bullet for drug abuse. It has to be seen as a case by case basis i see it to many times were a blanket treatment is used ie methadone and they really just trade addictions . When you make something illegal it puts the end user in a very hard place as it makes getting treatment much harder 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shonman Posted November 12, 2013 Remember..... Only users lose drugs! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shonman Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) Why should minor possession be a crime in the first place? When does use, become defined as abuse? When someone can no longer function, possibly? For example, someone smoking a bit of herb to relax in the evening, But taking care of business.... Should not be criminalized and have their life destroyed. It could even be argued, that in doing so, the 'punisher' is, in fact, more detrimental than the user to society. See 'prohibition' and 'war on drugs' Remember...it's a war on people, not a war on drugs. Edited November 12, 2013 by shonman 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted November 12, 2013 Why should minor possession be a crime in the first place? I agree, but I opened this up more to discuss fairer ways to punish those that have been convicted under current minimum quantities (obviously personal use). I put no punishment as an option but it still goes against your record. So perhaps if you ended up in court again you would be 2nd conviction. I guess a conviction would still effect your employment and travel prospects in some circumstances. I think it would be easier to change the punishments then the initial law itself. Re assessing the minimum punishments that can be recommended by a sentencing officer to the magistrate would make the system a lot fairer. Sure we may be able to get Marijuana laws relaxed with enough pressure but we are NEVER going to decriminalise all personal quantities of drugs, why not change the sentencing outcomes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glimpse Posted November 12, 2013 but we are NEVER going to decriminalise all personal quantities of drugs, not with that attitude bucko 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) ^^^^ Seriously we live in one of the most conservative countries in the world. If we have ANY chance of moving towards discrimination we need to step towards it. If we had evidence suggesting convicted criminals (under the current system) could function without threat to society and many strongly contribute we could then suggest removing the laws that criminalise personal quantity possession. Perhaps GPS monitoring and testing could provide that evidence, whilst also serving as a model on which to combat drug addiction. I don't see things like Meth and Heroin being decriminalised in this country. Unfortunately there is very little flexibility in the way law makers distinguish drugs from each other. If you are caught with anything scheduled you might as well have Meth or Heroin. I think it would be much much harder to change laws to distinguish these drugs and adjust sentencing accordingly. Therefore we need to look at adjusting the sentence recommendations for ALL personal quantities, and I think we have far better chance recommending some punishment rather then removing all punishment. Unless mainstream views drastically change over the next few years. Edited November 12, 2013 by Slybacon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Francois le Danque Posted November 13, 2013 If we had no punishment for possesion of drugs of addiction then we would see a lot more addicts. Citation needed! The opposite happened in Portugal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted November 13, 2013 Congrats to Portugal, No Doubt a model that should be considered by the leader of our country. However, we are a long way from that and I think alternatives need to be discussed. What is the next fairest option if drugs do remain illegal, what is fair to both sides of the argument. There seems to be a strong desire for total decriminalisation which is what I expected. I just thought people would have some solid ideas why. Its a really smart bunch of contributors on here who I'm sure can recognise that we are not rushing towards decriminalisation and that a fairer sentencing system would benefit those ensnared in war. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shonman Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) If the all knowing, all seeing govt does not approve of various drugs...and there are only so many categories.... Sedative,stimulant,entheogen/ psychedelic, and touchy-feely emotional substances that promote empathy..... And some less fun ones, like 'delerient' .......and finally, alcohol, whatever category it would be in....also fine in moderation.... If they dislike the existing substances, for 'health reasons' ( as opposed to people opening their minds to propaganda, etc) Then, they, the 'peoples servants', should develope ones that are considered safe. Although, many known substances on the above categories, are not so harmful, and some, are. So, instead of ruining lives, throwing people in jail, and promoting a system that profits from them....How about... Govt Actually serving the people it pretends to represent......and, giving them safe, organic or professional lab made drugs. If they have a problem and their life is falling apart (see: Alcohol) then there are places that can help with that. Throwing people in jail, just tends to ruin lives and create more criminals..... Edited November 16, 2013 by shonman 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teamwhy Posted November 13, 2013 No punishment. Support should be there if people need it like counseling etc. but if they are happy about what they use, it up to them. one of the biggest risks of most drug use is the legal risk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
