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RubyTuesday

L-Troptophan

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there are many definitions of 'increased serotonin levels'. The way the synapse works is as follows. Serotonin is made in a cell and then stored in little bubbles on the edge of that cell (this is generally termed the "serotonin reserves"). When it is triggered, the serotonin is then shot out into the space ebtween the cell and the next cell, called the synaptic space. Here it floats around and if it bumps into a receptor on the opposite cell, then it will bind to it for a while. This is what makes you feel good. Keeping lots of serotonin in this space makes you feel good for longer.

Once a certain period of time has elapsed, the serotonin lets go of the receptor and then floats around the synaptic space again. If lucky it will bump into the originating cell wall, which is covered in little machine that capture the serotonin and push it back into the cell so that it can be stored in the reserves again for the next time. These little devices are called "re-uptake pumps".

Now from logic one would assume that the best way to increase your overall serotonin system is to simply make more. Thus always having plenty in reserve ready for release. I believe this is the case. To make sure you cells can manufacture plenty of serotonin they need plenty of precursors such as tryptophan.

However pharmaceutical companies realised that increasing serotonin is a natural process and there is little scope in patenting anything. So they developed chemicals that would interfere at another stage in the cycle. The SSRI's (like Prozac and zoloft) disable the little machines that reover the serotonin. This increases the serotonin in the synaptic space and thus there is more chance that one of the serotonin molecules will pump into the receptors on the opposite cell. In theory this means that each serotoinnin molecule gets to make you happy more than once. However in practise it also means that you are not recycling as much of your serotonin and it is excreted. So essentially SSRI's make you feel good temporarily, but reduce the actual amount of natural recycling.

Once the serotonin leaves the synaptic space it will quickly be attaked by the enzyme MAO, which deactivates it. So another way of treating depression is to eliminate some of the MAO, which is done with medications like aurorix (moclobemide). Such MAO inhibitors aren't a bad idea, cos they do not deprive any natural system. Thus the serotonin has more chance of being rescued by the reuptake pumps, thus actually increasing the amount of serotonin in reserves.

As far as I am concerned, SSRI's are a fake way of getting happy and may provide a window of happiness similar to taking MDMA. However they do not really fix the problem and in many cases make it worse.

The best results I have observed need the cooperation of a GP and a naturopath. Taking tryptophan (or 5HTP) and a MAOI can bring serotonin levels back to good levels within a matter of days. It is not wihtout danger, but then again neither is severe suicidal depression. In general I always recommend against SSRI's.

Understanding the serotonin system is the most important part of fixing it. Don't rely on your GP, Learn for yourself.

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Originally posted by Darklight:

How was the Zoloft withdrawl- I'd be very interested to hear your expereiences with it.

Horrible! I went cold turkey with it cos that's what I've done in the past with Prozac (I changed to Zoloft when pregnant on the advice of my shrink who said Zoloft was better for breastfeeding cos less of it went thru to the breastmilk). I've gone off Prozac a couple times before and only experienced irritability. Coming off the Zoloft I thought I had some vestibular disorder like Meniere's Disease because I kept getting these dizzy spells which were like an electric shock thru my brain and body every time I moved my head. It didn't even occur to me that it might be related to the Zoloft until I got desperate and did a search and found dizziness was a very common withdrawl symptom with certain SSRIs. I've always been led to believe these drugs are easy to discontinue but it seems to be coming to the fore that they're not. I'd be pretty wary of going back on Zoloft.

P.S. Thanks Darklight & Torsten for the info on serotonin... It is quite amazing how passive we become in the doctor/patient relationship ~ I have been treated for depression for near on 10 years and to this day I haven't understood the serotonin 'system'. I know vaguely how SSRIs work, and I have wondered before why inhibit the reuptake rather than just make more IYKWIM? But I've never really taken much of an active interest in the brain chemicals before... WHY NOT??????

smile.gif

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http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

[This message has been edited by RubyTuesday (edited 01 August 2002).]

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in respect to SSRI's I forgot to mention that in France they are starting to treat many forms of depression with SSRS's. These are Selective serotonin reuptake stimulants. This makes a lot more sense to me. Although you will not get an immediate happy feeling from them as the serotonin doesn't spend as long in the synaptic space, at least they help to conserve serotonin that has let go of the receptor sites. ie, they help to rescue serotonin AFTER it has performed its job. This effectivly increases the serotonin reserves and as I metnioned earlier, I fully believe that this is where we should be concentrating our efforts.

I think ultimately a combination of SSRS, MAOI and precursor supplements will become standard treatment for severe depression, while MAOI and supplements should become the standard for chronic depression.

[This message has been edited by Torsten (edited 01 August 2002).]

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I was at the chemist today, and asked the pharmacist the price of L-Tryptophan. Natures own is now $35! which is a bit exy.

Interestingly he had no problems with selling it to me without a prescription.

Also had 5HTP, but it's $40 for 30 75mg tablets, WHOA! the distributor must be makingg shit loads of money from that.

[This message has been edited by blog (edited 01 August 2002).]

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Originally posted by blog:

Interestingly he had no problems with selling it to me without a prescription.

Maybe because QLD has more relaxed drug laws (with regard to stuff like this at least)?

Yeah, I had a look at the 5-HTP on www.vitaminsaustralia.com.au (which ships within QLD) and it was $41 for 30 tablets, which contained only 75mg of 5-HTP. I ordered 60 x 100mg from America for $39 inc. postage and currency conversion.

smile.gif

------------------

http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

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The laws are set by the TGA so they are national. I think you just got a dumb chemist. Make the most of it wink.gif

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Yeah, I think the poor guy must have bought several bottles in the same order, when a customer had a prescription for it. And now he's stuck with them. THey were behind the counter with all the other pharacy only medication. The TGA probably don't track sales of L-tryptophan, as another chemist ages ago told me you need a prescription but hinted that he could sell it to me without one as he was no longer sure that it was prescription only.

I"m sure he knew otherwise, but I guess that's his "get out of jail free" card if I was some sort of goverment inspector.

[This message has been edited by blog (edited 03 August 2002).]

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Well, I've been taking 3-5 x 95mg tablets most days (late afternoon) with Mega B, for about 2 weeks... I've stopped getting the dizzies after taking them. I can notice a general 'excitedness' reminiscent of when SSRIs start to kick in, but not as full-on. Waiting on 5-HTP ~ looking forward to starting that smile.gif

------------------

http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

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Guest Mesqualero

Wow blog and where is this nice chemist of yours??? wink.gif Don't answer that hehehe :P *wink wink*

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