RubyTuesday Posted July 24, 2002 Sorry that should be L-TrYptophan... so cold here I can't type properly Anyway, is it 'better' or 'worse' than 5-HTP? I've just found it for $13 for 100 tablets from that Golden Glow mob... http://www.goldenglow.com.au/3-frame-setup...e=Amino!s!Acids ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty [This message has been edited by RubyTuesday (edited 24 July 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blog Posted July 24, 2002 Natures Own sell it also, more expensive but each tablet is 500mg's instead of 95mg. That's a pretty huge difference in dosage strengths, yet both recommend only 1 tablet a night. I"m guessing that 500mg's is the therapeutic dose, but Golden Glow want to keep their tablets unscheduled so went for 95mg. Maybe L-Tryptophan only becomes S4 at strengths of 100mg and above. http://www.bullivants.com.au/proddata/Natures_Own/Sort_by_Name_no/NO_List_ Name/no_list_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html://http://www.bullivants.com.au/prodda...t_name_303.html [This message has been edited by blog (edited 24 July 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted July 24, 2002 Hmmm thanks, so basically you'd need to take 5 of the Golden Glow ones... It doesn't say how much the Nature's Own ones are though... Anyway I ordered it from GG just to satisfy my 'must have now' urge ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blog Posted July 24, 2002 From memory, when I got my script it was about $27.00, so you're paying $13 for 9.5grams , while $27 gets you 30grams, so it works out cheaper, but you dont' even know if the stuff is useful for your needs yet, so best starting cheap. Give a single tablet a go to start with, but at least you know 5 tablets at once should be perfectly safe as that is the Adult dose of the prescription only version. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted July 25, 2002 How did you go with it, blog? I'm not really depressed at the moment, but I've been on and off SSRIs for about 10 years. Went off Zoloft a couple of months ago. I have a small baby, so I get tired and generally 'blah', and thought Tryptophan would be good. ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gem Posted July 25, 2002 I generally take 1000mg trytophan each night to aid sleep - main irritants are just twitching (doesn't bother me, I'm asleep but of course if it's waking your partner...) and also the incredible dreams - I wake some mornings wondering whether I would have a better night's sleep without it because I feel like I've travelled the world during my zzzzs. Would love to hear opinions on whether it'd be more beneficial to go straight for a melatonin script vs tryptophan or whether the tryptophan does have it's benefits (ie increasing serotonin levels). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 25, 2002 Natures Own 500mg tabs are only avail via script. Golden Glow keeps their at under 100mg as this is the level where they become prescriptive. Natures Way also makes a stress formula which is 25mg tryptophan - useless really. Golden Glow is the easiest and most convenient unless you have an agreeable GP. Gem, the jerks/twitches are nto from the tryptophan. Quite the contrary, they are from your adrenaline/cortisol. They happen in the transition phase between the sympaticus and vagus/parasympaticus, ie as you go to sleep. Normally as you fall asleep your body locks its muscles so you don't act out your dreams. If you fall asleep too quickly due to very high serotonin levels (or if the adrenaline is too high to be overpowered by the serotonin) then a limbo situation developes for while where the two phases struggle. At this stage it is possible for the muscles to move even though they should be locked. How to fix?? reduce your adrenaline/cortisol levels. This is done by increasing serotonin. You can also use a little bit of kava in late after noon as this will relax the muscles a little more. Also increase in physical excercise will cause an increase in spams, so this may be a temporary thing for you Stopping tryptophan is not a good idea. melatonin actually in my case causes much more jerking than tryptophan, simply because the phasechangeover is even quicker and the adrenaline is not kept in check by reserves of serotonin. 5HTP is probably more effective than tryptophan (only a max of 10% of tryptophan can be converted to serotonin, while 100% of 5HTP can be). However taking a vit B complex supplement is even more important (most tryptophan is diverted for vit B synthesis). Please note that I have plenty of experience with tryptophan, but noen yet with 5HTP. Will report soon on 5HTP though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted July 25, 2002 "Please note that I have plenty of experience with tryptophan" Torsten, and has it helped you? What dosage have you been taking? So, on top of the L-Tryptophan I should take B6? ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blog Posted July 25, 2002 I used it for sleep, though wasn't very helpfull for me in that area. Had a lot of vivid uncomfortable dreams, so vivid it often took me a long time after waking up to determine if they were actually dreams. Like memories and situations that your brain normally suppresses, well they're the things I kept dreaming about, suppose you might say it brought on nightmares. I wasn't depressed at the time, and didnt' notice any mood change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by RubyTuesday: Torsten, and has it helped you? What dosage have you been taking? So, on top of the L-Tryptophan I should take B6? Hmm, wasn't it B1 or 2 it turns into?? Can't remember. best thing is to take a high powered multi B. Yes, I have had good success. Not just on myself, but also with many other people. Dosage ranges from 500mg to 5g. However usually 1 to 2g should be good enough. More important than the quantity is the method of taking it. Do a search here. In a nutshell, take at least 2 hours after food and at least 1 hour before bed. Never have protein food in your tummy at the same time. Always take at night (between dinner and sleep). take with small amount of carbohydrates. If you get too sluggish in the morning take some tyrosine to get going. Kava is a good way to support the effects of tryptophan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted July 26, 2002 Thanks a lot. I did a bit of research, and from what I can gather, you need to take Tryptophan with B3, B6 and C for the best results. I'm not quite sure why you say not to take it after eating protein? I know protein contains amino acids but I can't understand why you wouldn't want them around when you take tryptophan? Sorry, I dropped Biology after Year 10 The other thing that is confusing me, is that recommended dosages seem to range from 100mg to 5g... My 95g tablets will not last very long if I need 5g to get an effect! ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blog Posted July 26, 2002 Golden Glow must not only keep their tablets under 100mg but must also keep their recommended dosage under 100 mg. To recommend more would place the product into the un-commerical world of prescription only medication (uncomercial for a naturopathic product)So it's a bit of a catch22 for them. They know 95mg is unlikely to do much for the majority of people, and are probably depending on word of mouth, and the purchasers own research to determine the correct dosage. [This message has been edited by blog (edited 26 July 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted July 27, 2002 Have been taking 5HTP for months now- only as needed, sometimes as little as 1 tablet a fortnight. IMO it beats the shit outta l-tryptophan, which I've an amount of experience. None of this " are my B vits/ C vit/ Iron up to scratch or is my adrenaline too high cos the L-trypto still ain't working " stuff. 1 x 80mg Proxan from Innovative Therapies in Qld as ordered from my local health food shop and sometimes I can feel an effect in about 1/2 hour that is quite distinctive. No, I'm not working for the pill company, I just thought I'd write it down again for the ppl who keep asking me where I get 5HTP from. No it isn't cheap. But you don't need a script from a GP. And its a bargain compared to trying to function while your brain is trying to give you a hard time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted July 27, 2002 I've had golden glow's l-tryptophan before and it really worked wonders for me. I took about 5 pills at a time. Have to order some more soon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted July 27, 2002 Darklight, yeah I found someone who used to work for Innovative Therapies... She gave me the name of a naturopath in my area who stocks it, so I rang them and they said I needed to have a consultation, which wouldn't necessarily even result in me being given 5-HTP So that would add at least $20 to the price... Blah... ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 27, 2002 Originally posted by RubyTuesday: I'm not quite sure why you say not to take it after eating protein? tryptophan shares the same absorption pathway with 4 other amino acids. These other 4 are way more common than trytophan, which leaves it out in the cold. The other thing that is confusing me, is that recommended dosages seem to range from 100mg to 5g... My 95g tablets will not last very long if I need 5g to get an effect! The maxiumum daily recommended dosage they are allowed to advertise is "less than 100mg per day". So yes, they won't last long, but at least they are fairly cheap. if you can get it, then use the 5HTP. It is much easier to use as all the precautions re absorption and vit B, etc don't apply. It is a good idea to take Vit B anyway though as it means more of your natural tryptophan is available for serotonin production. Important note: Some 5HTP products recommend taking it throughout the day. This is simply wrong. It is important to keep the dopamine levels up during the day to stay motivated (this helps to stay happy). But then at night you need high serotonin. The high dopamine is so important, that if you notice sluggishness in the mornign after taking 5HTP get yourself some tyrosine. High serotonin levels during the day can cause demotivation and malaise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted July 27, 2002 Well, I just wish my L-Tryptophan would hurry up... Had a 'freak-out' session last night, couldn't sleep for 6 hours after I went to bed , had panic attack etc. Would've killed for some Xanax... P.S. Thanks again for info, Torsten. ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty [This message has been edited by RubyTuesday (edited 27 July 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 28, 2002 freak outs and anxiety are much better controlled with a small amount of kava. they won't go away, but they will be much more controllable and less worrying. kava is also a hell of a lot cheaper. just don't drink any alcohol with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theobromos Posted July 31, 2002 I think the folic acid is important as well, I knew a woman with a small child whose depression was cured when the doctor insisted she eat lettuce every day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 31, 2002 isn't that a problem primarily associated with women soon after pregnancy?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted July 31, 2002 Originally posted by theobromos:I think the folic acid is important as well, I knew a woman with a small child whose depression was cured when the doctor insisted she eat lettuce every day. Lettuce? Folic acid deficiency? or post-natal depression? A vegan mate was prescribed an SSRI for depression but was reluctant to take it cos she wanted to try other things first. Eventually her doctor bothered to take blood tests etc which found ( to no-one's surprise ) she was severely anaemic. A couple of weeks with an iron and B supplement, followed by a balance in her diet and she was fine. No way you can process l-trypt to anything unless everything else is in whack ( which is why I like 5HTP- once you start to feel better its easier to make dietary changes for positivve effects, the other way round its much harder ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted July 31, 2002 Been taking 5 x 95mg of L-Tryptophan for a couple of days... I can notice an effect about 2 hours later, which includes a bit of dizziness (a mild version of what I experienced coming OFF Zoloft) but it goes away pretty quickly. I dunno what to say about that Folic Acid thing... I'm getting some B Vitamins tomorrow, so that should contain Folate. Depression is VERY common after having a baby... My theory is that the stress + serious lack of sleep = low serotonin levels. Anyway, Twee (husband) is taking the L-Tryptophan as well - at this rate it should last us all of 10 days So I've taken the plunge and ordered some 5-HTP from O/s. ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gem Posted August 1, 2002 Originally posted by Torsten:Gem, the jerks/twitches are nto from the tryptophan. Quite the contrary, they are from your adrenaline/cortisol. They happen in the transition phase between the sympaticus and vagus/parasympaticus, ie as you go to sleep. Normally as you fall asleep your body locks its muscles so you don't act out your dreams. If you fall asleep too quickly due to very high serotonin levels (or if the adrenaline is too high to be overpowered by the serotonin) then a limbo situation developes for while where the two phases struggle. At this stage it is possible for the muscles to move even though they should be locked. How to fix?? reduce your adrenaline/cortisol levels. This is done by increasing serotonin. You can also use a little bit of kava in late after noon as this will relax the muscles a little more. Also increase in physical excercise will cause an increase in spams, so this may be a temporary thing for you Stopping tryptophan is not a good idea. melatonin actually in my case causes much more jerking than tryptophan, simply because the phasechangeover is even quicker and the adrenaline is not kept in check by reserves of serotonin. You are an absolute wealth of knowledge, thanks Torsten : ) Shame I hadn't had a chance to see your post before I talked my GP into a script for melatonin, should have realised myself really, I'll give it a whirl though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted August 1, 2002 Does Tryptophan sort of 'build up' the serotonin level like the SSRIs do, or does it just give you a 'hit' every day? ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted August 1, 2002 L-trypto & 5HTP replenish your natural serotonin levels. If you're low then yes, it builds them up. If you're more relaxed then the on-flow of that is you have more serotonin around. And at that point you don't need more l-trypto or 5HTP. Its a self feeding loop to a large extent. If you stress then the serotonin is either used up, or antagonised by adrenaline and therefore useless.Then you need to top up your levels. After a bit- not a long time either- you learn when you need to take them. As benefits are immediate or close enough to, dosing isn't necessarily required every day. In fact it becomes far from a daily thing in most cases one levels stabilise How was the Zoloft withdrawl- I'd be very interested to hear your expereiences with it. Several ppl have asked me about replacing their Zoloft/ other SSRI with 5HTP or tryptophan but I am reluctant to give advice because I have no direct experience and don't want to subject ppl to processes I don't understand Re post natal depression: wasn't there a study done a few years ago which showed that yes, it is largely caused by sleep deprivation? One of the reasons I have never had children...why anyone would expect me to be nice to them at 7am when they woke me up four times during the night is completely beyond me. How the human race manages to live longer than four years in each case is a total mystery Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
