Law changes in NSW

[Torsten]

please spread this far and wide .... urgently.

A bill before the NSW parliament this week will make it illegal to possess or sell any live plant that contains mescaline or a mescaline structural analogue. More than half the cactus family contains such compounds in trace amounts, but the law makes no distinction between trace amounts and usable drug amounts. It is likely that the NSW government was aiming at the handful of abusable species such as Trichocereus pachanoi and Lophophora williamsii and is probably unaware of what they are about to do.

This law will apply to some of the most popular collectible species such most species in the genera Mammillaria, Echinopsis, Aztekium, Gymnocalycium, etc

Almost all cacti alkaloids are structural analogues of mescaline [as defined under NSW drug law], even if they are not psychoactive. Basically any cactus that contains phenylethylamines will become illegal regardless of the concentration and also regardless of whether the owner knew about it or what purpose it was grown for.

The bill has already had its first reading and is moving to second reading in the next few days. It could be passed as early as this week, but more likely next. Either way, this will be law by the end of this month unless a lot of people make a lot of noise.

It is unrealistic to expect the government to ignore the drug content of some species, so the best outcome cactus collectors can hope for is for the law to be changed so that only single species are listed. This is how drug law has always worked until now. It seem preferable to lose a handful of species that are at the core of this problem in order to keep the rest of the cactus family unrestricted.

Please contact your local state parliament member immediately to protest this. Please also contact the NSW Attourney General to voice your concern.

The problem phrase is in the definitions under 'substance', where it says that a substance includes any PLANT, fungus or natural organism.

The bill also affects all DMT, harmaline, ephedrine and cathinone containing plants, but I will get to that later.

http://bit.ly/193KCW1

edit 17/09/2013:

The NSW drug bill affecting plants has just passed the lower house. Any letter writing should now go to MLCs or to the sponsor of the bill [the minister for fair trading]. This will all be over in the next 48h, so please hurry.

[TommyChesnutt]

Yeah, knew this was going to happen soon.

No doubt this will effect the SAB store in a dramatic way as well? I can imagine a substantial amount of stock will have to be relocated/destroyed.

This is very upsetting though, for those of us that have grown very fond of our plants - but a law is a law - and, i don't want to be a crapper on this situation at all, in fact, i hope for the best,

but i can't see this bill NOT being passed to be honest, no matter how much of a fuss we kick.

I think realistically there is just too much evidence of 'misuse' of these plants in our community, and certainly enough to be construed in court as 'worrisome'.

Note i am just speaking from an observational point of view here.

It's going to be an interesting thing though... the sydney botanical gardens has a massive Scopulicolus last time i checked, and there are some MASSIVE pedros in some pretty public places in NSW in general. Perhaps this will be one of those 'selective' laws that are assessed upon situation (like with Papaver som. - Grandmother doesn't get charged for seeds from eBay etc.)

In any case, i know the fat lady hasn't sung yet, but i can certainly see her walking up the stage...

...We had a good run, guys...

[Change]

[planthelper]

if they would be alkaloids, with abuse potential, I would at least understand why (although I would still not agree),

but mescalin is something, 90% of the people might use only a very few times in there life.

I guess this would include as well ariocarpus and asterias and carnegia giganta.

and what will be the outcome, more research chemicals will be consumed, which are maybe only in use for months already,

now how this compare with pedro which, HAS BEEN IN TRUSTED USE SINCE A FEW THOUSAND YEARS!

LAWMAKERS, YOU DON'T HELP YOUR CITIZENS, YOU HURT THEM WITH THIS LAW.

[Alice]

They are unlikely to listen to us.

But there are some failry big cactus clubs/societies in Australia, are there not? Is anyone a member? Have they been made aware of this?

[Change]

What can one do to help create Change in a more positive manner ?

Or is it to late ?

[planthelper]

What can one do to help create Change in a more positive manner ?

Or is it to late ?

tort said, what to do.

[CorzahazarD]

Crap, my housemates and myself are planning to move to NSW early next year, fresh start for all of us to hear this really sucks.

Yeah maybe speaking to cactus societies could help, seem a bit more legit coming from them than the ethno population lol...although mass letters from everyone might help too lol.

at first I thought this might have been like that garden freedom thing a while back, all show no go, but this seems quite the opposite

is this a sign of things to come?

[Change]

Please contact your local state parliament member immediately to protest this. Please also contact the NSW Attourney General to voice your concern.

Ill be sending off a few emails today

Whats Australian Ethnobotalical Society doing ?

[Shamanistic]

Abso-fucking-lutely rediculous. Guess they better chop down the several Acacia Floribunda that are planted at a near by school, forget the fact they give the kids shade and something to admire in their beautiful blooms. One of the kids could smoke it and get schizophrenia. I wonder if we will hear on the news 'Thousands of trees have been murdered today after police engaged on a witch hunt against half of all cactus species, many native australian plants and much more. The death toll is said to increase.'

Thanks for the heads up Torsten.

[shortly]

It will be a nice win for (admittedly very few) US nurseries supplying plants into the NSW market, they will be eligible to compensation from the state government for lost revenue for life of the free trade agreement.

$'s for not shipping product, sweet

[Yeti101]

I know that T and others will post more on this, but my reading of this legislation is that it can be applied pretty broadly. Personally I'm a bit worried by Part 2C.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Yeti101

[Leaves]

I served my country in the forces & the amount of people destroying their lives with alcohol was very disturbing. I was drinking way too much & after leaving the forces I ate a small amount of a cactus I had been growing for years. Since them I only drink when other people want me to drink with them (once a month) & only 2 or 3 drinks at a time. I think I would still be killing myself with booze if it wasn't for the healing properties of certain species. Also I can't really see how a person could enjoy abusing any of the above listed chemicals, maybe cathinone & ephedrine but the law makers allow supplement companies to make pre-work out powders that expose people to much more dangerous combinations/dosages of chemicals. The law makers need to try Catha sp. for themselves & realise they will need to make coffee illegal because it is stronger than Catha sp.

[Benzito]

What BS! I'm not on Facebook, but the cactus and succulent society of NSW have a group on there. Someone needs to make them aware.

Has anyone written a letter to their local MP that we could maybe copy for sending to our own local member? I'm useless at talking or writing in a professional manner.lol

[mimzy]

Will these new laws affect possession of seed as well?

[Yeti101]

Will these new laws affect possession of seed as well?

I assume you mean in cases where the seeds contain no actives, and hence are not dealt with by other parts of the legislation?

I guess that would depend on if possession of seeds could be seen as part of the activity of 'manufacturing' a psychoactive substance.

psychoactive substance means any substance (other than a substance to which this Part does not apply) that, when consumed by a person, has the capacity to induce a psychoactive effect.

Like I said, it's pretty broad.

[Rum and Monkeys]

So what happens to businesses like SAB/Wandjina, Hamiltons, Collectors Corner and the other nursieries where this is a means of an income? They just close their doors?

This is a real sad time for all of us.

[planthelper]

lord forgive them, they dont know what they are doing.

Edited September 16, 2013 by planthelper

[Yeti101]

I don't think this bodes well for the Happy Herb Company either.

[PhoenixSon]

bunnings?

[PositiveHAL]

well this is upsetting

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Somebody who is articulate should probably put it all together and submit one of these http://www.communityrun.org/petition/new

At least then all the e-signatures are kept as single number rather than separate ones going off everywhere. Its also a nice neat package to present to places like FB pages etc.

[naja naja]

fuck, let em do it, then the public can see wat an absolute bunch of fucking morons we have running the country!

[Torsten]

we've been preparing for a similar thing on a federal level for a while, so we won't be affected too much in terms of the business. It's really about the private collection. I can handle getting rid of all my 'useful' species, but I really don't understand why I would have to get rid of things like Opuntias or Myrtillocactus just because they contain traces of mescaline analogues that couldn't really be extracted anyway. I think the way to fight this bill is not to fight against the scheudlin alltogether, but to limit the damage done by it. ie I think we need to give up on T.pachanoi, peruvianus and Lophs to save the rest. That's essentially what the law was aiming for anyway, but out of ignorance went too far.

The cactus societies are not usually all that helpful. They tend to think this won't affect them and they don't want to be seen supporting 'druggies'. It is very shortsighted.

[TommyChesnutt]

fuck, let em do it, then the public can see wat an absolute bunch of fucking morons we have running the country!

But it will almost certainly be 'selective', and to be honest, I would think it is going to be a very effective and accepted bill no questions asked.

Under this bill, they have the flexibility to arrest upon suspicion/owning of a plant and sort out the details in court.

No more of this 'intent to consume' business.

A blanket bill is often confusing but is effective in weeding out the 'undesirables' for the government. It just works extremely well for them.

Additionally, laws of this type have never been an issue with society, except for the small communities affected like ours, which are promptly ignored and attributed as the voice of the 'target population'.

It is EXPECTED for us to raise concerns. And all it will do is affirm their descisions.

My honest guess is that the true, varietal cacti societies will never have to heed this amendment.

They are simply not the demographic this law targets, and the police, judges and other lawmen of society know this. If one were to ever get 'caught',

I would bet that they would undergo the confiscation of implied plants and a 'this is how it is' discussion,

but that would be the most of it.

The hard truth is, they can do ANYthing with this law. It is made with the intent to be EXTREMELY flexible. Which is unfortunate, because when laws are not clear-cut,

there are casualties that could be otherwise avoided (uneducated adolescents that decide to push the boundary), but the government does NOT CARE ABOUT THESE CASES - and accepts them as collateral damage.

This, in itself is an immensely counterproductive tactic and in being used is quite detrimental to the purpose of justice. It is simply wrong.

Anyhoo, i'm getting into public health talk here, but once again this shows that resources are being conserved on community awareness and societal management, in lieu of a cheaper,

control-based schema.

Which keeps us all fucking stupid, and ineffective in my opinion.

But ey, that's classic australia. Tall-poppy syndrome, right guys?

I'm going to go cool off, now...

Edited September 16, 2013 by hunnicutt