So, how was it?

[Al]

I mean EB2 of course.

Be nice to imagine what it was like despite not being there.

[Guest shapeshifter]

How was it?

Well I'll put my 2 cents worth in. In a word "disappointing" and let me just say that I am not disappointed with the quality of the speakers and the content by I am very disappointed with the organisers or disorganisers - and I am referring directly to Torsten. I was extremely disappointed to have attended a conference and being a paying attendee and witnessing how immaturely and unprofessionally things were handled when an uninvited guest arrived.

Personally I don't care what has gone on between you all and I am sure that the majority of attendees - especially those who travelled from WA and NZ among other far flung destinations - don't care either. We were all there to enjoy our conference and I feel that as a Key Note organiser and representative of SAB - Torstens' conduct showed a definate lack of concern and interest in the priorities involved. This was a conference weekend and I know that if I were in Torstens' place I would have made a concious effort to put the politics aside for 3 days (regardless of how difficult that may have been to do) and gotten on with keeping the majority of people happy, as opposed to behaving irrationally and ubruptly.

Also as mentioned I was a paying attendee, and found myself in the kitchen along with others, taking over where Daniel left off.

Kudos must go to Floyd, Dutchie, Earth Alchemist for keeping their heads screwed on and keeping things flowing as smoothly as could be expected in the circumstances.

Perhaps you might consider that the next conference should stipulate "egos are left at the door" and you'll be down 2 kitchen staff for the next one cause we won't be coming back for a third time!!

Go on Torsten - throw another hissy fit why don't you?

[Guest Denis Shaw]

WHAT THE!!?!!??!!

dude what the fucks goin on here??

Who was the uninvited guest???

was it Mulga?

sweet jesus who else could it have been.

sounds like some serious shit went down. Can't fucken wait to hear this one.

-Chemical Shaman

"sporting an aluminum foil deflector beany"

[Pablo]

get over it dickhead, you dont know what it was about and in torstens shoes i would have most likely done alot more than escort him away from the conference room.

[somnif]

I've just got home, so this will be short.

(I'll expand later :-) )

While I suspect a lot of not-so-positive

will be written about what happened at

an organistational/Mulga level etc. etc.

I want to point out that from my point of

view the online-nerds (yes, that's you)

who went seemed to have a really, really

good time (I know for sure that I did)

and got on fabulously together.

So regardless of whatever discussion might

follow, remember that for the "people on the

ground" (and people on the ground who were

sorta floating) it was a very worthwhile

event.

Hey eccles? Did you get home alright?

[waterdragon]

mulga and various cronies must have planned some time ago to white-ant the conference. in the future i'd like to see some security installed so that the snickering fuckwit can get what he deserves. at least torsten now knows who he can rely on. this event was a fantastic show and i met some amazing people there(more on that later). if mulga thinks that he has something to offer the ethno community why doesn't he organise his own show?

i don't claim to know the full story between torsten and mulga and frankly it's not my concern but it's between the two of them and to have the event disrupted in this manner was the height of stupidity.

people showed amazing restraint in not bouncing their fists off the cockheads smarmy melon, which would have resulted in much neo-pacifist whining and several court appearances. good job mulga you dickhead.

torsten i hope you'll learn a lesson from this and bounce back stronger than ever, and forget about things not running to schedule most of my fun went on outside of the speaking events . amazing restraint, i couldn't have done it, i'm not that tolerant.

darklight you're a weapon girl, with any luck you'll put up a post explaining how mulga ended up in hospital with a busted jaw.

i'll be back with more.

[waterdragon]

??

[This message has been edited by waterdragon (edited 18 February 2002).]

[waterdragon]

sorry double post.

[shroomy]

Originally posted by shapeshifter:

Perhaps you might consider that the next conference should stipulate "egos are left at the door" and you'll be down 2 kitchen staff for the next one cause we won't be coming back for a third time!!

Go on Torsten - throw another hissy fit why don't you?

yeah ok lets leave our egos at the door thats the door where we collect our arm bands to show that we have paid our $200. yeah thats right mulga showed up not as a speaker or for that matter a paying guest he decided that because he had givin some one a lift he was entitled to attend. hey i know how about next year we all just give each a lift and we can all get in for free?. another pitiful excuse was that because he has been involved in the ethno scene for some time that gave him free admission. so whats next do we get a discount depending on the amount of years we have studied ethnobotany? for fuck sake the only reason the shit head turned up was to cause trouble. if i was him i would consider myself very lucky to have left in one piece because if it was my show no amount of pacifist whining or howling or sit ins would have stopped me from turfing his ass out of there. thanks torsten for another great event. the one reason i enjoyed it so much last year and this year was the opportunity to meet some of the most genuine people i've ever met. good show, bring on next year and email if you would like me to arrange some security for freeloading assholes.

[shroomy]

Originally posted by waterdragon:

[waterdragon]

??? sorry having delete issues

[This message has been edited by waterdragon (edited 18 February 2002).]

[Guest Denis Shaw]

This is pretty harcore. I knew Mulga was a fuckhead but I had no idea it was this extreme.

Shapeshifter: Like assassin said there's a lot more to it then you probably know about. This all started with EB01 a year ago and escalated from there. Mulga's antics have been pretty extreme but I had no idea he had the audacity to pull something liek gatecrashing EB02.

If Mulga had of tried as hard to fuck up my life as he has with Torsten I would have beaten his fucken ass into the ground with my club-lock. If all that happened was that he got escorted from the premises he got off lightly.

Mulgas not welcome on these forums, everyone hates him. Yet he persists to post shit all the time constantly registering-

hold up, i just had an hour long phonecall mid-post from one of the peeps that went to EB02. Mulga is one giant fuckhead. It sounds like Tort should have handled it a lot better than he did but the whole thing is, it was Torstens event it was his party, Mulga had no place being there. I woulda opened a can of whoop ass instead of just cracking the shit's but ya get what ya give.

If you knew about all of the shit Mulga has pulled shapeshifter I think you'd have a different attittude.

peace yall

-Chemical Shaman

"keep that thing away from me"

[Guest shapeshifter]

Just like to clarify - I do know about the shit that has gone down but I think you missed my point - I don't really care and personally I don't think it needs to be an issue worth discussion either on this forum or at a conference intended to be a happy, peaceful and sharing experience.

[Darklight]

shapeshifter, in a word, piss off. The conference was intended to be that way, and some ppl went to considerable lengths to make sure it wasn't. This was in NO WAY the fault of either Dutchie or Torsten.

Shroomy and WD ( can't remember which of you it was ) thanks for the hand on Sunday, it was appreciated even if the job wasn't finished ( my fault ). CS yes it was most tedious, yes and you guessed it.

We're all sorta still embroiled here one way or the other, I'm expecting a visit from some of the guests to see facilities in TC and Rev will be here later tonight and I still can't uncover my loungeroom from the last 3 weeks of work blah blah.

If anything keeps me here, it's ppl like shroomy, WD, assassin, Rev, CS. Hearing ignorant shit from the likes of SS, despite the hard work put in the kitchen end, just fuels the determiation to continue to do productive work somewhere way out of the reach of fools and losers

More, surely, when we all have the energy

[shroomy]

Originally posted by Darklight:

Shroomy and WD ( can't remember which of you it was ) thanks for the hand on Sunday, it was appreciated even if the job wasn't finished ( my fault

it wasn,t your fault it was just that it was getting to the stage that to go further with the incident could have ended us up in some bother. that in itself would not bother me but its a long way to travel to lismore for appearances . maybe this thread is not necessary as anyone that did not enjoy the conference obviously cant be pleased.

[A480]

[darklight you're a weapon girl, with any luck you'll put up a post explaining how mulga ended up in hospital with a busted jaw.

[/b]

So I guess in the heat of the moment she didn't think to aim lower...ahh well.

Glad to hear (almost) everybody had a good time in spite of all this shit...wish I could've been there.

Man, do I wish I could've been there...

[gem]

I had a FABULOUS time - well done to Torsten, Dutchie, Dutchess, Darklight, EA et al (sorry, just got home myself so will post again with mentions of all the people who put in the hard yards.

Yes Mulga is the biggest fuckwit I have ever had the misfortune of encountering and as WD says, if you don't like the way the conference was handled - go and put on your own show. I see this attitude as very narrow-minded and ungrateful.

The people there were fantastic - I will be sending off *heaps* of emails in the next couple of days to say hello to the people who made the event extra special for me (quite a few, lemme tell you).

If I didn't have such a tiny house I'd have a mini EB for you all here in Cairns. I enjoyed it immensely and I suspect those who were disgruntled just don't apprecitate the magnitude of hard work and planning an event like this requires.

Kudos to Torsten, I actually think he kept his cool, I would've been lining up to smack both mulga (wanker of the year) and his legal advisor/pig dog wanker associate (just as big as a wanker, perhaps more) with much pleasure.

[Darklight]

Won't take no credit where it ain't due, my contribution was strictly limited to Thursday night's smiling and waving. After that I went down with some hidjus fever and was pretty much well out until Sunday morning. Felt pretty useless actually.

BTW shroomy, good to hear your evaluation of the sitch was the same as mine, though I do so hate leaving a job half done.

neo-pacifist whining

ROTFL WD! The truth shall make ye free...why is it that so many sanctamonious bores think that a smack on the head is worse than being forced to listen to endless smug hippie drivel? At least a smack on the head ends faster.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by shapeshifter:

In a word "disappointing"

I agree. In fact it is the most disappointing thing I have ever been involved in. However it was certainly not my doing and if there would have been enough support initially, then you would not have ended up in the kitchen.

I am not disappointed with the quality of the speakers and the content by I am very disappointed with the organisers or disorganisers - and I am referring directly to Torsten.

This just shows your ignorance. There were four organisers. One of them did not do ANYTHING for the conference at all and in fact didn't even turn up. Dutchie did a lot of work. However Floyd only stayed around for as long as it was interesting and left Dutchie and myself to clean up for several hours.

The funny thign is, that Daniel and I had already done more than 80% of the work and had paid ALL of the costs even before the conference started. So much for sharing the workload and costs 4 ways between the 4 organisers.

I was extremely disappointed to have attended a conference and being a paying attendee and witnessing how immaturely and unprofessionally things were handled when an uninvited guest arrived.

I agree. The uninvited guest (Mulga) should have been turfed out by the 3 present organisers. One of them (Floyd) backed the intruder, which left me powerless to make a decision. Nen (Nick Spacetree), who had brought Mulga to the conference (even though he was advised not to ever bring him anywhere near me) then strated to threaten that if Mulga was ejected then he would call the police and have the event raided and shut down. At this point I informed the conference of the impending security issues and decided to shut the conference down until they leave. {Conference was resumed after 20 minutes or maybe longer).

I gave Mulga and 5 min to get off the property and told Floyd that if they are not gone in that time that Daniel and myself will abdicate any further organiser responsibility and withdraw any volunteer support. Mulga did not leave. Nen did not leave. In fact a small group of people gathered around Mulga to give him support (yes, I know who you scumbags are). This support group included Floyd the organiser.

I then agreed to 8 further arrangements, where Mulga and Nen had supposedly agreed to leave within a certain time frame. This dragged this scenario out for me for another 4 hours. At no point did Mulga or Nen (who had already withdrawn as speaker) pay for their presence, but claimed a right to be there. Personally I believe I had been set up by Floyd and Nen. Please also keep in mind that Daniel and I have been ststing repeatedly for the last 8 months that we would pull out of EB2 if Mulga was to be part of it for whatever reason. Floyd and dutchie were well aware of this.

Personally I don't care what has gone on between you all and I am sure that the majority of attendees

personally I don't care what went on before Eb2 either. I am comfortable in my atitude that I want nothing to do with Mulga. He can go and do whatever he likes as long as it doesn't intefere with me. For some reason this is not acceptable to him and a few other people and h constantly pops up in my face to aggravate me. What he and many of you don't seem to realise is that every time he fucks me off somehow I pull my head back a little more. Eventually I will resign myself to a peaceful life on my mountain and all the public stuff I do will be gone.

I feel that as a Key Note organiser and representative of SAB - Torstens' conduct showed a definate lack of concern and interest in the priorities involved.

Oh dear. Fuck you're blind. I was the only organiser who was there from the very beginning of the set up to the very end of clean up!! I was the only organiser who paid the bills. I was the only organiser who looked after the overseas guests. I was the only organiser who actually bothered to organise anything. As for the speakers, some of them rolled up 5 min before their talk believing it was not till the next day. And as for attendees, well there weren't many. If I had ten bucks for every time I was told "I will be there in spirit", it would not be in the red by a massive $6000. The whole event lacked dedication - right from the other organiser through to the attendees.

I stated my priorities frequently in public and to the other organisers. They knew that the only condition I had set for paying the full loss of EB2 and for doing 80 or 90% of the work was that Mulga was not going to be present for any part of it - no matter what! All organisers had agreed to this repeatedly.

This was a conference weekend and I know that if I were in Torstens' place I would have made a concious effort to put the politics aside for 3 days (regardless of how difficult that may have been to do) and gotten on with keeping the majority of people happy

why??? none of you fuckwits give a shit about me. You just want what I have to offer. This weekend served me well to show me who my real friends are.

I had made the effort to put politics aside and the other organisers (and Nen) had agreed to keep Mulga away from me.

I am just wondering if you pricks would have backed just any person who walked off the street and wanted to scam a free ride????? So why accept that sort of behaviour from Mulga????

as opposed to behaving irrationally and ubruptly.

I may have been upset and angry, but certainly not irrational. I have full legal responsibility for the venue, the event and the finances, so when I am threatened with a police raid I have to act in the interest of the group and myself, no matter how disappointing that may be to you or the rest of the group. I don't assume you understand much about the legal situation, so maybe you should just trust me on that one and shut the fuck up.

Also as mentioned I was a paying attendee, and found myself in the kitchen along with others, taking over where Daniel left off.

This is truely regrettable. Personally I would have liked to see Floyd and Lamius (who didn't turn up) sweating over a hot stove, but somehow Floyd still managed to catch ALL session while attendees were slaving away. But to expect Daniel and myself to put in anymore under the circumstances was just beyond reason. I am amazed that the responsibility for this is levelled at daniel and myself, while we had done more than our fair share of the work and were backstabbed and deceived by Floyd.

Kudos must go to Floyd, Dutchie, Earth Alchemist for keeping their heads screwed on and keeping things flowing as smoothly as could be expected in the circumstances.

Fuck!! you have to be kidding. you really aren't very bright right??

Floyd worked a total of less than 10 hours for this event. Daniel had done more than 30 even before the event had started. And I have no idea how many I have done, but definitely more than 100. As for dutchie, he was always kept up to date as to my impending decisions and could have acted to prevent me pulling out. In fact, it was only my friendship with dutchie that caused me to take charge of the clean up, as he was obviously exhausted.

Kudos go to Earthalchemist, Dutchie and Daniel parents. and to you if you weren't such a stupid prick.

Perhaps you might consider that the next conference should stipulate "egos are left at the door" and you'll be down 2 kitchen staff for the next one cause we won't be coming back for a third time!!

at least some good news. You were not required to do the work. Floyd made the decison that Daniel and myself were not needed anymore and from then on it was his responsibility to take over. You just lightened his load so he could see all the sessions. certainly not my problem.

Go on Torsten - throw another hissy fit why don't you?

can I?? please ;-)

I don't throw hissy fits. My actions were fully calculated and all people directly involved were at all times aware of the consequences of their decisions and actions. They made the poor choices that caused the final result. Unlike Mulga and Nen I did not pull any surprises or terminal threats.

There was only one time where I was taken by surprise in this whole issue, and that was when Nen threatened to call the police to have us shut down. It reminds me very much of a situation where Mulga stated that he would rather see these forums shut down than not to be allowed to participate. Peas in a pod!

More about the conseuneces of what has happened in regards to the forums and future conferences in a few days when i get more time and have had some sleep.

You people are so used to seeing me make compromises and to give it the last little bit of effort on top of everything else I do, that you completely miss the selfish pricks that really ruined the show.

My recommendation to you shapeshifter: fuck off!

and if you are pissed about the ticket money, then ask Floyd to pay you back. When Floyd made the decision to back Mulga's presence at the conference he was fully aware that I would pull out my finances (along with my labour). This leaves him owing me $5000 (a third of the total cost). Sadly he also put dutchie in the same position.

The last thing I need is fuckwits like you who don't have a clue about anything telling me that I didn't do enough.

Your food was OK though.

I would like to point out that there were about 10-14 people who supported Mulga by gathering around him and/or Nen at various times. Some were somewhat of a surprise. Consider yourself not my friends.

There were also a handful of people who supported me both with action and emotionally (yes, it was a very difficult and draining weekend). Some of these were total surprises. I needed those hugs and those grounding words of wisdom and diplomacy. You know who you are and you are what keeps me going.

As for the rest, as usual most had no idea what the actual story is. So by default some adopt the version that places responsibility at the feet of those who actually acted responsible. Please remember, just because we we had already done 80% of the work, doesn't mean we were responsible for the other 20%. Also, keep in mind that it is hard to defnd yourself when you are run off your feet. While Mulga and various others had all the time in the world, I was still doing a lot of organiser work behind the scenes. I was still organising at least 2 of the workshops and much of the logistics. And in the end also the clean up.

I was at all times placed in a loose / loose situation by Nen, Mulga and Floyd. Whatever decision I made would have pissed some people off, so I made the decision by my principles. At least that way I cannot regret them.

And then there were the really annoying fuckwits like Julian. I may have been able to handle the situation without your stupid noise, but thanks to your further irritation I shut the conference down early.

Special 'prick awards' also go to Neil Pike who sees no problem in people invading my space, makes no attempt at getting Mulga to compromise, but has a lot to babble when some people take action.

I am glad some of you people showed your real colours. At least now I know who to support and who to leave behind. Those uneasy grins on sunday did little to mask your true loyalties.

In case anyone cares, my biggest regrets about the conference are the effect it had on Daniel (while slaving away in the kitchen, he missed the call that his most beloved Nan died on friday), the fact that this is the end of my public work in EB, and the fact that I let down assassin. As you can see, my priorities are not with the actual 'failure' of the conference, but with the shortcomings this created in my dealings with people I care about.

[Torsten]

I would be interested why some people saw me as the disruptive force at the conference, rather than Mulga (& co), who were the actual disruption. It is beyond my comprehension and I would appreciate it if someone could explain the logic.

As for EB3, there won't be one. We may put on an event in 2 or 3 years time in one of the capital cities, but we will know who to invite and who to get pulped by security guards.

On a humorous note.... I explained the problems to the venue owners and they burst out laughing when I suggested that we will have security guards next time. It is certainly the first for that venue and doesn't do the reputation of australian ethnobotany any favours.

So once again all of you get to wear the costs for Mulga's stunts. Any future event will have a $50 security surcharge to cover 24h security and possible and on site solicitor.

And for those who thought Mulga/Nen got off lightly.... I got advice from my solicitor on saturday and was told to get some video footage of the intruders presence at the event. I also have a few witness statements re 'reasonable force' in case he tries to slap an assault charge on me. The footage will be enough to charge him with trespassing. Prosecution will be a breeze and will cost him the ticket money, damages and excessive legal costs. It will be pleasure.

[bluetonguedragon]

The last thing I need is fuckwits like you who don't have a clue about anything telling me that I didn't do enough.

Your food was OK though..........................................................................

.........................................................oi i did the cookin Tors I hope your not getting me confused with someone else as i have not posted

[Guest shapeshifter]

Ha - Good one Torsten

How you handle criticism is up to you - I still stand by what I have said and I'm sure you put a lot of work into the conference and good on you for that.

Also I think you might have me confused with someone else - I'm not the chef - just a worker ant.

Just remember - what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

[bluetonguedragon]

Originally posted by Torsten:

The last thing I need is fuckwits like you who don't have a clue about anything telling me that I didn't do enough.

Your food was OK though....................This ones a reply with quote.....Yeah I think u have a few crosswed wires torsten

[gomaos]

I also had a real good time, my own personal circumstances permitting.

I don't know why we will all have to wear some sort of punishment, because this idiot mulga and friends tried to fuck everything up.

I witnessed some of what happened that night and think that it's Torsten's full right to defend the event the way he did.

That mulga had some nerve to show up there.

Why can't he go his own ways and stop bothering people who don't want to know about him?

Thanks for putting in all the efforts, Torsten, Darklight and all the others who helped.

if I had a lot of money, I'd re-imburse Torsten.

but I don't.

Probably never will either.

Just don't let it destroy the forums or something.

I wouldn't know where to go.

All the american forums, like shroomery etc are full of arrogants.

Please let us keep these forums here.

[This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 19 February 2002).]

[Guest Mesqualero]

Is this the Death knoll for the Ethnobotany scene in Ausralia? I realy hope not