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Guest Mesqualero

Calmness, anger and the chemicals the body produces

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Guest Mesqualero

I am just wondering what chemicals our body produces when we are attempting to calm ourselves down... and what chemicals our body produces when we get angry..

Would Amphetamine use impair the body's ability to produce chemicals to calm down, and is there anything we can do to try and stimulate the body to be able to revert back to a normal production of these "calming" chemicals...

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Originally posted by Mesqualero:

I am just wondering what chemicals our body produces when we are attempting to calm ourselves down...

serotonin and maybe some GABA

and what chemicals our body produces when we get angry.

adrenaline, which forces down the serotonin levels.

Would Amphetamine use impair the body's ability to produce chemicals to calm down,

yes.

and is there anything we can do to try and stimulate the body to be able to revert back to a normal production of these "calming" chemicals...

yes, increase your seotonin production. do a search on these forums re serotonin. eat salmon, or supplements, meditate and sleep regular hours. take some kava too.

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Guest Mesqualero

Ok i thought it would be those chems.... would tryptophan supplements help increase serotonin production?

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yes, taken in the evening on empty tummy.

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How does increasing serotonin levels actually help? From what I gather, most people already have plenty of serotonin but people with anxiety or depressive disorders can't make use of it.

I tried 5HTP for a couple of weeks (maybe a little longer) at 100mg per day...I can't say it did me much good, and it was too expensive to continue.

So is 5HTP actually effective for chronic problems or just the acute effects of drug-related comedowns? Or was I not taking enough/for long enough?

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Originally posted by A480:

How does increasing serotonin levels actually help? From what I gather, most people already have plenty of serotonin but people with anxiety or depressive disorders can't make use of it.

actually, most depressed people have low serotonin levels. GP's will tell you that you get enough tryptophan in your diet, however they do not realise it is the last out of 5 aminoacids to be absorbed by the same pathway, ie our high protein diets will hinder the absorption of tryptophan. A supplement taken at the right time can be of great benefit.

So is 5HTP actually effective for chronic problems or just the acute effects of drug-related comedowns? Or was I not taking enough/for long enough?

yes it is effective. My experience lies mostly with tryptophan, but I would assume 5HTP to be even better. It i much more useful for chronic problems than for acute problems. A good diet can have similar effects though - although salmon is not cheap either.

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Originally posted by Torsten:

but I would assume 5HTP to be even better.

I purchased 5HTP from Fundamental Foods in Lismore- exxy, but taking it confirms it is much more readily available than l-tryptophan. Possibly a placebo effect took place once or twice but the effects are much more reliable ( no mucking about with other supplements to achieve effect ) and much faster.

One of the interesting things I noted was on one occasion there was a delayed reaction, similar to one experienced with l-trypto. The morning after ingesting 5HTP there was no full effect, it was almost like someone had placed a 'lid' on my ability to experience the full effects. I've seen similar 'lid' effects with kava and anger- whatever irritation I'm experiencing on kava seems to hit a peak at a low level and subside. So it was interesting to watch the effect happen with 5HTP.

I can only assume the 5HTP 'lid' was a seratonin antagonist- adrenaline was the culprit I reckon. I made sure I set some 'trigger events' up to see if it would work past it, walked the dogs, rang my sister, took the bike for a run on a sunny day- and the 5HTP effects were more noticeable beyond the point where they could have been described as placebo.

So while I'd describe 5HTP as more generally effective in my experience, you still need to consider things like environmental stresses when expecting benefits.

One question I'd like to know...how long after an ingestion of 5HTP could benefits be expected to be experienced ( OK I'd be happy with an average figure...) as a direct result of the ingestion? By day 2 or 3 any positive effects would probably have resulted as secondary serotonin peaks from the initial ingestion ( if you're in a good mood you're likely to stay in one til interrupted..)

But what happens to unused 5HTP? If it always converts to serotonin, and excess seratonin won't be used, does it break down completely, or store say in the gut until the brain requires more? While the former sounds more likely than the latter I've experienced benefits from l-tryptophan which took a couple of days to kick in ( after a workout and a feed ) though it could have been digestive as I hadn't been eating well around that time. Is this possible or is it one of those things that only I can see? wink.gif

A good diet can have similar effects though

TELL me about it. While I use supplementation as a quick-fix, its been interesting ( for me ) to note that long term changes have been best mediated by both supplementation ( where necessary ) AND a vastly improved diet. Full credit to my family's excellent culinary skills, and to Daniel, who collectively managed to convince me that there was more to a square meal than toast.

The morning after def feels better with a tyro or 5HTP, but better still the day after with a light lunch and a good seafood dinner.

One day I'll find time to goddamn write those Recovery Pages...

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Guest Mesqualero

ok, so the reason i am asking this is because.. when during a day if i get irritated it seems to linger forever and i can't shake it.. and more things will irritate me until i get to the point where i am at the point of Hysterical outbursts and can't do anything to calm myself down..

I am aware of how well deep breathing works but during these times I just can't bring myself to attempting anything to calm myself down... I no longer want to rely on the wacky backy to calm myself down because it only makes it worse for when i don't have any..

I also used to use meth qute regularly this was a few years back though....

Now i have found alot of correlation between my behaviour and the alleged symptoms of an Attention Deficit Disorder sufferer.. and i have asked some close friends to see if they notice any of the prominent symptoms of Adult ADD in my behaviour and they noticed quite alot.

What is the general opinion of ADD amongst you guys? Is it just another plot by pharmaceutical companies to control the population?

And if Amphetamine use impairs the Brains ability to produce these chemicals, won't Dextroamphetamine and Methylphenidate (Ritalin) use have disastrous effects in the long term?

I am torn between my distrust of Pharmaceutical companies and my desire to try and overcome something which has basically made my life extremley difficult since early childhood...

I don't know what i should do.....

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I have a friend who was diagnosed with ADD (the 'adult' variety) at age 30 and has been prescribed both dexys and ritalin.

He uses both but mainly the ritalin, as the dexys just arent as good.

(In a dream he gave me 3* 5mg tabs of dex which I took - and became one hell of a fast, sweaty dream for over 12 hours. I didnt have that dream again - just too taxing on the body on wakening, I needed to sleep to relax from the dream!)

Basically the ritalin works really well for him, and 6 years on he is quite happy and 'normal' (whatever that means) and hasn't looked back - still taking them.

Just a thought.

Al.

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Originally posted by Mesqualero:

Would Amphetamine use impair the body's ability to produce chemicals to calm down, and is there anything we can do to try and stimulate the body to be able to revert back to a normal production of these "calming" chemicals...

I was given a photocopy of some information regarding Tryptophan from my pharmacist today, one of the health benefits listed decreasing the craving for amphetamines in ppl undergoing amphetamine withdrawal. Also mentioned 4000mg a day reduces the physical pain associated with opiates dependance. After most of the health benefit 'areas' there appears to be a hyper-link for Research - I rang the pharmacy after noticing this to try and obtain a URL for where they printed the info from. Apparently what I am reading from had been faxed to them from some naturopaths guild (memory failing) - anyway, I don't have an on-line reference unfortunately but one site they did recommend was www.personalhealthzone.com/encyclopedia.htm

Haven't had time to peruse it myself.

I also came across The Principles of Neuropsychopharmacology (on sale at Big W of all places) so I am slowly making my way through this - if anyone is after very specific info re particular nerve pathways etc etc I am happy to look in there. Also re Darklight's comment, I believe tryptophan is more readily absorbed with carbohydrates. Hope this is of some use.

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Guest tsttantra

yeah,i know what you are saying.

i have found if i have sex at least every two days its not a problem.

since my girlfriend and i worked this out we have about one argument in 2 years,instead of one a month.

i look at male violence,rape etc and always thought men have hormonal problems too.

docile sex slave , t s t .

which smilie to use?

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Guest Mesqualero

I love asking you guys questions thanks for all the helpful info... I'm gunna check out that link about tryptophan... even after basically a year off Amphetamines I think about it almost everyday...but i don't need it.... I just wonder what it would be like..... just.... once..... more...

ya know ?

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This sounds incredibly similar to alcoholism.

I've been completely "dry" for periods up to two years, then mostly it was because I had to step on an airplane again, and for that I NEEDED that bottle of Jack D..

And after that It took me regularly 1-2 years to stop again.

Bourbon would turn me into a numb person.

I went through life with a cross on my shoulders, always thinking about the next drink and when I would have it.

I was prisoner of a mindcage. Some sensory perceptions were more or less cut off.

At present:

Perhaps I delude myself, but I think i've got it down to a managable level.

For example:

For the last 4 days, on 3 days I had perhaps one glass of rum a day which the neighbour gave me (great neighbour) or one beer, yesterday i had 2 beers in the pub and one bottle of champagne at home.

Which is a lot less than what I used to have.

I just use herbal substitues.

I don't know if it would be possible to find a managable level for amphetaminuse, but everything is possible.

Of course I am not encouraging amphetaminuse at all.

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Originally posted by Mesqualero:

ok, so the reason i am asking this is because.. when during a day if i get irritated it seems to linger forever and i can't shake it.. and more things will irritate me until i get to the point where i am at the point of Hysterical outbursts and can't do anything to calm myself down..

this sounds like low serotonin isn't your only problem. serotonin keeps the adrenaline levels in check, so low serotonin can result in long periods of high adrenaline. this is rarely agressive or hysterical though. to look at what you are lacking you have to look at what each neurotransmitter achieves. dopamine is the hormone of pleasure and reward. the opposite could thus be described as feeling unappreciated and edgy, dissatisfied with others and everythign around you. if you feel this, then you also have low dopamine levels. This can be corewcted by taking tyrosine. careful though, as any supplement that you really need will have quite a drastic effect. if you don't need tyrosines, then 500-1000mg will have virtually no effect on you. if you do need it, then you may feel effects and sideeffects from 100mg upwards. tyrosine is a monring supplement. it also get you over the serotonin blah's caused by tryptophan or 5HTP sometimes. always take it directly after a decent amount of food to slow absorption.

I no longer want to rely on the wacky backy to calm myself down because it only makes it worse for when i don't have any.

YOu are actually making things worse by smokign this. You are depleting those neurotransmitters you so desperately need.

I also used to use meth qute regularly this was a few years back though....

meth triggers dopamine and adrenaline release. for some reason we are never short of adrenaline and this is not depleted. however dopamine can be depleted easily and long term depletion by first meth and later pot can leave you pretty seriously unbalanced (neurochemically and emotionally).

Now i have found alot of correlation between my behaviour and the alleged symptoms of an Attention Deficit Disorder sufferer.. and i have asked some close friends to see if they notice any of the prominent symptoms of Adult ADD in my behaviour and they noticed quite alot.

ADD sufferers often have a problem with low dopamine levels and high adrenaline. this makes them impatient, edgy and leaves them without any satisfaction. Any person with low dopamine and high adrenaline will exhibit strong ADD symptoms. Fix the levels first and then see if you still have the symptoms then.

What is the general opinion of ADD amongst you guys? Is it just another plot by pharmaceutical companies to control the population?

No, I believe ADD is simply high adrenaline levels in kids. Any condition that is left unchanged for a long time is much harder to change in adulthood. The fact that certain stimulants work to treat ADD may be based on their temporary dopamine release. A naturopath I have worked with gave ADD children tyrosine doses every 2 hours with great success in stopping tantrums and agression. However the hyperactivity was not addressed. I believe kava, valium or tryptophan/5HTP would have an impact on this as well and would reduce the total symptom of ADD.

And if Amphetamine use impairs the Brains ability to produce these chemicals, won't Dextroamphetamine and Methylphenidate (Ritalin) use have disastrous effects in the long term?

yes, basically I would regard them as an easy short term fix. They may also be OK if the person has plenty of reserves of dopamine, but lacks the triggers for release (unhappy home, strict parents). But in general I find their use paradoxical.

I don't know what i should do.....

Experiment with the supplements first. If you feel you can't get any relief this way, then the pharms are still available. however, many pharms will cause long term or irreversible effects and should be avoided if other possibilities exist.

For you anxiety attacks I recommend kava. When I get them I take half a teaspoon in the evening about 2-4 hours before sleep. I still get upset, but I can let go of it after a few minutes. The beneficial effect of kava is immediate and lasts for several days. The best dosage is the one that doesn't cause you any of the typical kava effects (sedation or tingly limbs), so taking it does not affect you dayly life.

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