What does "body load" mean?

[Anodyne]

I had always thought that the phrase "body load" just described unwanted physical effects of a drug - sweating, raised BP, etc. But I was reading Shulgin recently and he seems to use it to describe the feeling of being more aware of physical sensations, good & bad; that the experience is more physical, more about the body and less about the mind, I suppose. Have I been misunderstanding the term all this time?

[C_T]

floored, stuck to the seat.

thats what ive associated it with, but i think like many things each and everyone will have a different experience and that will give them a diff uniqiue view of it, depending on their environment, exposure, experience etc.

can be a symptom of better things to come, can be a symptom of over doing things... you can't question these things too much just accept them and learn from them. other wise you end up just mind fucking yourself next time experience it.

why i feel its so important to treat people with respect, you never know when you may need some in return.

[ThunderIdeal]

physical symptoms usually unwanted, usually distracting from the mental/spiritual/desirable effects

sore muscles/joints/spine, vasoconstriction and nausea are some really lovely examples of body load

i guess it's just a loose term used by drug-taking cretins. whether it's applied to just negative, or negative and positive effects...... depends on how much of a whinger you are i suppose and i'm a bit of a whinger when it comes to this kind of thing

Edited July 5, 2013 by ThunderIdeal

[Anodyne]

A question TI: I have sore joints all the time, and they certainly distract from an experience even though they are not caused by it - is this "body load"? I know I sound like I'm hair-splitting here, but I'm just trying to get my head around this idea.

It's just that the latter definition of "body load" (in the OP) could be used to describe pleasant/positive effects like the tactile euphoria of MDMA & 2CB, for instance - and I have never heard the term used that way, to describe a subjectively pleasant aspect of the experience.

I guess the answer is that it's just not a well-defined term. Let me re-phrase the question then: what do you mean when you say body load?

[ballzac]

It's a really interesting question, and one I hadn't thought too much about until now. I've always thought of "body load" as being about a physical sensation of being "high". This could be positive, like tactile sensations on MDMA or physical euphoria on opiates, or it could be negative, like the physical tention from a high dose of stimulants. But I've never really associated the term "body load" with purely physiological things like sweating or cramps.

I have no idea where my interpretation of it came from. I guess it's one of those things that means different things to different people.

[Getafix]

Body load means to me the heavy physical sensation, good and bad, experienced under the influence of various substances before the mental experience takes over and overshadows how the body feels.

I think mescaline is a prime example of a chemical that gives a heavy body load before the brain takes over.

Large doses of MDMA also give that load prior to the brain taking over.

As Ballzac says, personal interpretation.

Good question though Anodyne!

Getafix

**Edited for grammer**

Edited July 5, 2013 by Getafix

[CβL]

For me I use the term to just describe physical sensations (laboured breathing), changes to physical senses (increased or decreased sense of weight), numbness, increased/decreased heart rate associated with certain drugs. I use the word neutrally, although some of the body load can be further broken down into positive or negative (I quite like faster/slower heart rate for example, and I quite dislike the feeling of laboured breathing).

Edited July 5, 2013 by CβL

[ThunderIdeal]

A question TI: I have sore joints all the time, and they certainly distract from an experience even though they are not caused by it - is this "body load"? I know I sound like I'm hair-splitting here, but I'm just trying to get my head around this idea.

It's just that the latter definition of "body load" (in the OP) could be used to describe pleasant/positive effects like the tactile euphoria of MDMA & 2CB, for instance - and I have never heard the term used that way, to describe a subjectively pleasant aspect of the experience.

I guess the answer is that it's just not a well-defined term. Let me re-phrase the question then: what do you mean when you say body load?

i reckon body load gives you a good indication of your state of health (for instance agonising lumbar discomfort = lumbar issues) and/or whether your drug-taking style could use optimisation (for instance nausea or constipation could indicate fasting, different eating patterns or maybe some anti-emetics could lead to happier, more productive drug use). in my case i have some minor issues with my spine when sober, add a certain little chemical catalyst and i'll be doing yoga headstands like a man possessed, and launching complaints at anything in ear shot. i class that as body load, it's pre-existing but becomes thoroughly intensified.

some people like to nail down definitions but in this case any particular definition will be influenced by that person's particular experience of body load, whether it is severe or non-existent, whether they find it useful or annoying..... everybody is so very different when it comes to this stuff

as for your sore joints, you might find some answers in older threads. torsten and zen peddler come to mind as having posted good information on inflammation and auto immune disorders.

[Darklight]

Hey wow, never given any other possible definitions a thought til now

To me, a heavy body load is any sensation which detracts from the pleasurable effects of a substance at any stage during the experience, including the comeup and comedown. Extra points if the load can't be alleviated by common sense measures ( getting warmer, eating some carbs or drinking water ) Extra body load points if the experience isn't interesting enough to justify putting up with the discomfort

For example if an otherwise pleasurable substance is hallucinogenic but a persistent kidney ache which wasn't there earlier disrupts the visuals, and drinking water with a bit of lemon juice in it at intervals doesn't help, then the body load becomes a nuisance for me

[Anodyne]

Thanks for clearing that up ThunderIdeal - I guess in terms of my original question it would be that you use the term to describe an increased awareness of the body, (just as we might experience an increased mental awareness on some substances) - and that awareness applies to all sensations, whether pre-existing or caused by the drug? Is that right? - I don't want to be twisting your words around here.

Whereas Darklight & CBL for instance seem to be talking only about actual drug effects?

And thanks for the advice re: health stuff, I do follow those members' posts with particular interest as I know they suffer similar problems. I seem to finally be having some improvement with some simple diet stuff, will post more in the relevant thread later maybe - early days yet. Back slightly more on-topic, I've found meditation techniques to be quite effective when dealing with body issues in altered states, sometimes more so than anti-emetics, painkillers, etc. That increased awareness can be unpleasant at times, but it can be used to your advantage too.

It really seems like people are using this term in different ways - very interesting! At first glance the distinctions seem minor, but when you think about it there are some fairly major implications. For instance, someone takes a new RC and reports that it has a "major body load". But what does the term mean to them? Do they mean there were drastic physiological effects and that they had to be hospitalised after their body temperature skyrocketed? Or do they just mean that they were uncomfortably aware of their own breathing for 4 hours straight?

[ThunderIdeal]

that isn't how i define it but as i said everybody experiences and classifies these phenomenon in their own way.

there is going to be a change in the perception of the body, and a change in the body itself. you've heard of the mind-body connection right? it's very hard for me, maybe pointless, to try to draw a fine line between changes in perception and physiological changes. they are linked, that is why body load exists in the first place (drugs never provide the desired mind alteration without accompanying physical effects) and it's also why you'll have trouble pinning down a definition.....

!

the body is important. some experiences might provide a temporary, total disconnect, or sufficient anaesthesia, you might say only then is a drug providing effects free of body load, but that's just a case of ignorance is bliss. it's still your body, still being affected by the drug, you still have to deal with it later on.

you could practically apply the term body load to the act of inhabiting a body (itchy nose while meditating). mystics train their body for less "body load" whilst training their mind. i'll bet my body that their routines would also be very effective with the drugs scenario.

[Horus]

Boy with my arthritis every trip would be a body load bummer.

I dont think taking pre existing conditions into a journey is what is commonly meant as body load.

If the mind set is right and you accept your lot in life, achy joints shouldnt be too much of a bummer.

I know in the ayahuasca context, a vine heavy,or some particular strains of vine,or strong brew gives a body load of "drunkeness"

very feeble and weak, with a deep purge. So in that context it is cautionary advise.

"hey bro this is a great brew but with a heavy bodyload " gives you the information to make a better informed choice of weather to partake

or the mental and dietary preparation needed.

Preparation is the key, some chemicals do give constricted chest, so always have ventolin handy.

Mushies can smash the blood sugar so have lollies ready.

Shrooms can also cause panic, so have a valium in the kit.

The other classic bodyload is with heroic doses of shrooms,

the lactic acid in the leg muscles can really get out of wack, and cause the wobblyest boots ever.

Just knowing about this stuff thru discussion on this forum is a great help.

Next time you have to crawl around the place after 8g of subs,you wont have to panic and raid your emergency valium stash,

you just go, "hey wow ,this is that lactic acid thing colhawk was going on about....cool, can somebody pour me a whiskey "

[AndyAmine.]

IMO a classic example of a substance with a heavy body load is a dose of morning glory compared with LSD.

Or those who are familiar with paper acid of old, Daffy Ducks and associated prints (pirates, smilies, rolling stones, all the same shit), those were all heavy body load batches and was the main supply in Aus for a good few years in the 90s. I know a lot of people that gave up on acid because of the body load given on that stuff.

By god it was cheap though.

Edited July 6, 2013 by AndyAmine.

[Distracted]

To be it's just the effect of making your body heavier and harder to move, most noticably on mushrooms or MDMA.

Also marijuana food too.

I never considered it to be a 'bad' thing, your body just becomes extremely sensitive to everything and it's more uncomfortable to move than it is to just sit/stay still.

Usually makes me lay on the floor because it feels just so much better than doing anything else at the time, any other movements or actions are just a distraction from the amazing feelings that can be reached through concentration.

[Yeti101]

It's a good question and doubly so in the context of how Shuglin has thought of it.

I guess, to answer Anodyne's original question I think most people think of body load in terms of unwanted 'heavy' physical symptoms - I know that's what I would be referring to if I talked about 'body load'. It can also be used to indicate a more physically intense sensation.

I agree totally that mindfulness techniques can alleviate some of the worry about physical sensations and can even help with the sensations themselves - how you think and feel about pain seems to alter how you perceive or feel it and I think the experience of physically robust effects from a brew etc could be the same.

It's funny that Shuglin would put it like that though. Was it in a negative context? Being hyper aware of one's body is neither good nor bad in and of itself. If you react to that awareness with negative thoughts, fear & paranoia etc, then that would be pretty unpleasant (and lets face it, many of us have been there ). But if you reacted to this awareness with love, gratitude, curiosity and (most importantly!) non-judgement, then you will almost certainly feel better.

[Anodyne]

It's funny that Shuglin would put it like that though. Was it in a negative context?

Oh no, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the name... I can't remember the particular section I got this idea from, I just remember thinking "huh, that's not how I would've used that term" a few times, which got me wondering. If I can't back it up with quotes, I probably should've just said "something I read", rather than dropping the S-word... But to answer your question, yes, I think it was used in a negative way - to describe an unwanted level of bodily awareness which was detracting from the enjoyment of the experience and distracting from mental exploration, etc. But not always to describe (and this is getting in to that sketchy cause-effect/mind-body area that TI was talking about) an awareness of physiological drug effects like teeth-clenching or vasoconstriction, more stuff like general feelings of heaviness or being stuck in the body.

how you think and feel about pain seems to alter how you perceive or feel it and I think the experience of physically robust effects from a brew etc could be the same.

Yep, you might not be able to totally demolish pain or nausea with meditation, but you can sure make them less unpleasant. A lot of the distress from these sensations is caused by resisting them, so as col said, if you just accept it you can often move on without the anxiety. Then they become just another sensation like hot or cold, not necessarily pleasant/unpleasant.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Anodyne

[ThunderIdeal]

ahh clenching (or any other way a restless mouth expresses itself). it's interesting that people tend to gurn or clench or frantically tongue a bit when their concentration is at it's greatest, since stimulants result in both gurning and heightened concentration. in case you're starting to think there's a very plain correlation between concentration and clenching, certain people with certain intents, when they take certain stimulants, can sometimes attain tranquility and focus to the extent that they hit a ceiling BECAUSE they can't stop their tongue from exploring a molar or whatever (a ceiling they could only go past without the side effects of the stimulant, but the ceiling itself might be out of reach without the stimulant).

it would be handy to be able to choose which effects you do and don't experience but if that's possible in some scenarios, it's pretty difficult. imagine your thoughts on pot if your memory stayed intact.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/052010/1274779903_glen-big-baby-davis-tongue.gif

Edited July 6, 2013 by ThunderIdeal

[bullit]

??? edited sorry

Edited July 6, 2013 by bullit

[santiago]

I think its fairly easy. Its a negative term by definition alone. Anything can be emotive in both ways but a truck having a load is heavy, slower, under strain, harder to control and so on. Body load is the same. If shulgin meant otherwise or ambiguosly then thats probably his interpretation and is not 100% accurate. Sometimes i reply....cool man, but im not talking about a frozen person. Body load is undesired negative effects in its most simple derivitave.