Hemlock?

[earthalchemist]

hi all ... long time no see

a friend is looking for some hemlock oil or juice, and i haven't even been able to find seed/plants ... any ideas?

happiness

ea

[Guest The Ballistic Fiejoa]

whats hemlock?

TBF

[MrBumpy]

um, why does he want it? wasn't hemlock used as a poisen why back when?

If you look in some books on weeds in Australia, you should find some info on the different places that its is a problem.

-bumpy

[Guest mulga]

Yeah, I doubt you'll find anyone who sells Hemlock seeds, but I believe it might be a weed already in some parts of Australia.

It is very poisonous to ingest.

An interesting poison, in that it causes voluntary muscle paralysis, followed by involuntary muscle paralysis whilst having no effects on the central nervous system.

So the sense of a person who is poisoned by it, is first to feel paralysis in their limbs and body, gradually effecting their involuntary muscles and thus lungs and breathing. All the while being totally concious and having an unaffected awareness. Basically you're awake and aware as your body becomes paralysed and finally your lungs stop working. Sound like fun?

A brew of Hemlock, Opium and other drugs was used in ancient Athens to kill Socrates and others who were condemded to death.

[rkundalini]

I think it was used in "flying ointments" by european "witches"... hmm yep:

http://tor-pw1.attcanada.ca/~matthias/flyi...nt/recipes.html

I can certainly see how the effects mulga mentioned would be useful for attaining out of body states. I wonder if it is possible to find a dose that only affects the voluntary muscles.

[Torsten]

Haven't got time to look it up, but from memory I think that the seed is a customs and quarantine prohibited import, and all plant products are listed in the national poisons schedule and are prohibited.

This stuff only has one purpose really and that is to kill. It's not safe to handle and it is quite a responsibility to own or supply.

[earthalchemist]

Originally posted by MrBumpy:

um, why does he want it? wasn't hemlock used as a poisen why back when?

yep, and as rk said for the original flying ointment that was used by european witches ... my friends's interested in reconcocting from an original recipe

i think you'd be right torsten about the legal status in australia but not sure about internationally - i haven't had much luck with research, wouldn't know if anyone has tried to use hemlock shamanically, but love to know

happiness

ea

[Guest theobromus]

As reported by the Inquisition to have been used by European witches.

I have wondered about this. If some sadist scum were putting you to the rack and boot would you give them the true recipes for your magic? Or would you hope the gullible bastards would actually try the poisons you described in the hope of controlling the old magic with Christian magic?

[earthalchemist]

interesting question ... i guess it would depend on the individual. at any rate, i think the use of hemlock has been confirmed in closely-guarded formulae handed down over the ages ... but then again i may not know what i'm talking about at all

[Guest MICHAEL]

not that i want to encourage naughtiness etc. but there is a shop on Elizabeth Street in Brisbane city - the name escapes me but it seems to be a new agey place with a decidedly wiccan bent - which was selling hemlock last I was in there.

[MrBumpy]

sounds like one of the scarab stores, Too bad my local geography is so bad I don't know which street is adelaide street.

Does the name "Scarab" seem familiar?

or "Off Your Tree"?

I doubt it was the second as that one if pretty much just a shop for your stoner type friends

[Guest reville]

Im fairly sure it occurs as a weed in victoria - my two cents worth

[Guest theobromus]

One should be careful buying mandrake and hemlock from herb sellers, they often confuse them with the American mandrake (Podophyllum) and the American hemlock (Tsuga). These are totally different kettles of fish.

[Guest MICHAEL]

I was actually in the city the other day - the shop, which is on Elizabeth Street, is called Jitterbug Perfume. I thought I'd have a look to confirm but I couldn't find any Hemlock this time and I didn't take the opportunity to ask the shop assistant. Also, if memory serves, the product was from an American company.

Regards,

Michael.

[Guest MICHAEL]

Hi everyone - looks as though the Hemlock discussion is winding down, nevertheless a timely article appeared in Brisbane's local paper the Courier Mail this morning, Monday 23rd October:

"Dying to test toxic weeds" by Wendy Busfield:

Euthanasia activists are setting up a secret laboratory to test the killing power of common weeds. Mercy-killing advocate Dr. Philip Nitschke wants the world's first lethal plant testing laboratory facility for dying patients running by next year. Dr. Nitschke and his colleagues have raised $40, 000 for the project, and expect another $60, 000 to be donated by foreign backers. Under their plan terminal patients would send toxic weed samples to a Northern Territory laboratory for analysis. A team of scientists at the lab would check common weeds such as hemlock - the plant with a spotted stem brewed by Socrates and used to kill himself in 399 BC - for their effectiveness. They would then receive a report on the weed's strength, with a recommendation on whether it would work. Hemlock's effects range from nausea to a lethal sleep. "It's not illegal to grow hemlock," Dr. Nitschke said. "It's a weed that grows right across the country. "From a legal point of view, it's hard to find any sort of problem with the idea. After all, there's nothing wrong with analysing chemicals. "I think most people would see it as a useful service...the first of its kind in the world."...

regards,

Michael.

[rkundalini]

Wow, what a cool idea.

One wonders how they'll get away with it, wouldn't it be considered manslaughter to provide information on how to commit suicide?

Strangely, out of the blue as she woke up my girlfriend asked me the other day what would be the best of "my things" to use to kill yourself (no she's not suicidal ). I figured opium OD ought to be reasonably pleasant. Hemlock certainly doesn't sound very pleasant unless perhaps accompanied by a euphoriant...

Another random thought on euthanasia is that it ought to be possible to just die through an act of conscious will, after suitable training....

[Guest mulga]

Socrates brew was indeed a mix of hemlock and opium, plus other stuff I imagine. He took the brew and then sat around talking with his followers until he gradually could no longer function. I gather hemlock itself isn't really painful or anything, just totally maddening to feel totally concious whilst paralysed I imagine, at least if you hadn't come to terms with the fact you're about to die.

[Guest theobromus]

There has been a suggestion that Plato might have prettied up his report of his teacher Socrates' death. Vomiting and diarrhoea wouldn't have been such a romantic death.

[Torsten]

well, guess what I found in the back of my seed drawer today?????

yep, some hemlock seed. Not much, so I won't be sharing it (sorry), but will certainly be propagating it so that there may be more at the end of the season.

The Nitschke idea is great. There are poisons where you don't even feel you're going to die. Others can give you a heart attack. One mushroom gives you heart failure at least 48 hours after taking it. By this time the toxin has been excreted and no trace can be tested for. If I got terminally ill and wanted to die there would be no law stopping me

As for the legality of his venture, I can't see much of a problem, as one of the standard tests for any botanical extract is the LD50 and the LD100. I guess all they need is the LD100

There are few people I admire and respect as much as Dr Nitschke!

[Freaky Chicken]

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Edited September 3, 2007 by Freaky Chicken

[XipeTotec]

lol, this thread makes me laugh... as when growing up, there was an endless annoying supply of these fuckers.

[bio]

as for youthinasia, this is your thing, however i remember reading hemslock / monsbane are things you dont want to endure the pain of.

travels through the skin easily from the plant, and makes you very sick.

i like dangerous plants myself, but this one wasnt one i thought was safe to have around in case some kid played with it.