Mandatory admission of past interactions with the police

[AndyAmine.]

Hi all,
I am interested in knowing what the deal is with the admission of past interactions with the authorities and with all the recent legal troubles going on thought it could make for an informative thread.

So when questioned by the authorities or filling out government forms etc what do I and dont I have to admit when asked about my police history?

Does this change once under arrest or if being formally questioned regarding a crime or accident, or by a government dept. or at immigration etc?

We have all heard that convictions older than 10yrs or from ones juvenile record are not visable on your record, is this actually correct, if so is it in all parts of Australia and is it reliant upon any thing or condition/s?

Does this only apply if the records have been expunged first?

What about charges or convictions that have been dropped, thrown out, expunged (Drug diversion etc)?

Is the answer is 'No Comment' being evasive or obstructing an investigation under any circumstances?

Exactly what can a police officer see on the car computer they use, can they see ones juvenile record as well?
And does this change depending on the type of police? eg can an AFP car pulling me over see more of my records than a regular patrol car?

Im very interested in knowing a bit more about this subject,
Most of what I know comes from US based information and documentaries I have watched, so my knowledge is patchy at best and plain incorrect at times.

For example I was blown away when I got arrested a while ago that they weren't required to read me any kind of 'Miranda' rights or offer me a phone call or anything like that,.

The only parts that were close to what I saw in the US docudramas were the blatant attempts at stitching me up and and out and out lying in my statements to justify the damage they did to my car and the horrible way they humiliated me.

Edited June 17, 2013 by AndyAmine.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

personally if this happened to me and I had something to hide, I'd pull the whole "no comment" thing and let a lawyer do the explaining for me. this would be my first instinct for sure..

[quarterflesh]

Say nothing at all. If they want to know they will find out themselves once they take your license

[waterboy 2.0]

hmmm cant answer all that but can add mandatory admission doesnt apply here, it the usual name,DOB, address is all that IS required, once they have that they can check it. They ask it - but its not mandatory....

However being compliant can help a LOT. Being a smart arse can make you life hard, but can also prevent you putting yourself in deeper IF the shit is going to hit. Therefore give them what you have too.....

I am lead to believe here they can see the full record for this state only here, only annulled records are provided for some employment application purposes. For other states records they have to dig deeper and that takes time and office work.

Police records are convictions, not court records where other "options" and recorded by the court . Police enter their own data on convictions here into their own database.

lol...no "Miranda" styled shit in oz. No right to a phone call. Best you can do is nothing is hold out until you speak with legal council, they will either let you before charge, charge you and release you (then get legal), or release you (could charge you later though).

I dont care what anyone says there is no presumption of being not guilty when you are being interviewed, and courts not much different. YOU ARE ON THE DEFENSE.

POLICE COLLECT EVIDENCE TO CONVICT YOU, and most of this evidence wil come from yourself if your not careful.

They will play many games to get you to incriminate yourself.

Edited June 17, 2013 by waterboy

[AndyAmine.]

Yes, I chose my title and example poorly because I had a particular case in my mind after a long morning of reading, I agree no comment is the obvious answer when being questioned however, unless its used post detention or by someone who has absolutely nothing to hide then 90% of the time its just used to further entrap the 'vicitim'

I have personally seen it go badly almost every time its used which is why I was trying to find out more about the finer details of what the police can see and what is required when filling forms or applying for things because its surrounded in a lot of folklore.

In a perfect world when being questions by the police one could just rely on the law and say 'no comment', 'I do not consent to searches' 'Am I being detained' and 'I have somewhere to be, may I leave' and they will let you go without a drama but most cops are sneaky, lying tricksters.

I totally agree WB, the majority of convictions are made through self admission.

I was a bit too stoned when I formulated my original post, Ill try to re-formulate what I was asking.

(MOD can you delete this please and Ill made a new post with my questions prepared a little more thoughtfully.)

Edited June 17, 2013 by AndyAmine.

[CLICKHEREx]

You have to make application to the courts for your record to be expunged, after 10 yrs of a clear record, but Interpol still retain it, and probably other databases outside of Australian control.

Lawyer's advice (paraphrased): "Officer, I am aware that it is a citizen's duty to assist the police if reasonably possible, but if there is any offence of which I am suspected, I believe that I am entitled to know what that offence is, and to retain my own counsel until receiving specialist legal advice, which I fully intend to do, and must respectfully decline to comment on it until that time".

There is no "Bill of Rights" in Australia, and no "Maranda" requirement, nor a right to a phone call, although the opportunity for one is usually provided, except in special circumstances (warning accomplice, terrorism, etc.).

Google: "citizen's rights regarding police; (your state); AU" as they vary by state.

[gtarman]

Info about your rights when interacting with police for QLD:

http://www.caxton.org.au/pdfs/Police%20Powers%20Your%20Rights.pdf

http://www.communitylaw.org.au/flemingtonkensington/cb_pages/policepowersandmyrights.php

http://www.qld.gov.au/law/crime-and-police/being-arrested-and-police-custody/being-questioned/

http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/LEGALINFORMATION/THEJUSTICESYSTEM/DEALINGSWITHPOLICE/Pages/DoIhavetotalktothepolice.aspx

[Torsten]

You have to make application to the courts for your record to be expunged, after 10 yrs of a clear record,\

Your police record can't be expunged. Only your court record can. Two different sets of data. Your police record will have all accusations that are made against you, including false and frivolous ones. These stay with you forever and there is nothing you can do about it.

[-RC-]

Great thread. Nothing more to add other than fuck the po po.

Actually a question: Do we refer to the police as pigs because of Animal Farm by George Orwell? Read 1984 the other day and it got me thinking...

[Distracted]

As an Australian citizen you have the privilege to not self incriminate

You don't have to tell them where you've been, where you're going or what you're doing. Telling them you're not going to answer their questions in a way that does not arise ' reasonable suspicion' is the difficult part especially when most officers are anything but reasonable.

Good luck and loose lips sink ships.

[gtarman]

I think if you're dealing with cops, it helps to remember that they're still people too. You may disagree with what they stand for, and the system/s they represent, but I think you can still accord them a basic level of human respect despite those things, and you might find they do the same in return. It can also mean they'll be less likely to want to make your life miserable. Not saying to surrender your rights at all or to allow yourself to be treated unfairly, never do that. But outside of that, I don't think giving them hell is going to achieve anything positive.

[sweeet]

In general you are not required to say anything, though there are exceptions (such as when arrested or operating a vehicle on a public road) where you are required to provide your name and address. If arrested the cop must inform you why you are under arrest.

A mate was placed under arrest earlier this year and would only provide name and address. After being held for an hour he was let go (they were satisfied that he was identified on the police database). He refused to answer any questions other than providing his name and address. He repeatedly asked, "am I obliged to answer your question? by what law am I obliged?" Generally speaking best to keep your mouth shut.

If you are filling out a form and signing a declaration, then it must be true or you if caught you may end up being charged. Either a) don't sign, alter the text of the declaration, or in some cases c) sign under duress (write "signed under duress" before your autograph).

If you want to know what info the police have on 'your' record then make an FOI request (freedom of information request) to the police.

Depending on state laws you can ask a) for the cop's name, badge/ID number, c) station and d) to view the badge. If they are not carrying their badge then they are in breach of their oath - very serious offence.

IANAL, DYOR.

[Benzito]

Very interesting thread. I know when I was arrested I went for the "I don't recall" response to a lot of their questions. I figured it's not lying if you 'don't remember' specific details and once you've spoken to a solicitor and worked out what the best version of the truth is, perhaps your memory will be a little better when you get to the court.

That said, it seemed to piss the cops off. They actually started treating me like an idiot and even asked if I went to a special school.

One useful thing I learnt from a friend's bad experience with the police though is not to give them anything further to search other than yourself. A mate was arrested whilst on foot with his car parked a few blocks away. They asked him how he got to the location they caught him in and he mentioned he had driven. This expands the 'crime nexus', and gives the police probable cause to search your vehicle as well because it was used in executing a criminal activity. They drove him over to his car and searched it. If he hadn't mentioned he had a vehicle nearby they never would have got the chance to search it.

[Distracted]

Benzito it would have been better for you to have simply not answered their questions then to say you didn't remember.

Same as your friends case, especially if the cops had already judged him guilty and were just trying to find the crime he committed.

You need to make a judgement call early on as to how you're going to deal with your interaction, either give them as little information as possible while remaining polite, or give them nothing and let them puff their chest. Either way can be more beneficial than the other depending on your current circumstances.

[gtarman]

^^ yeah, it's a classic example of how saying anything more than you have to is just going to give them more to screw you over with. Gotta remember that these people generally want to prosecute you and to arrest you or write you some kind of ticket, whether you actually deserve it or not. To a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail - give him a badge and everyone looks like a criminal.

So yeah, just name and address (if they can provide you with the reason they want it). Anything after that, "no comment officer" and possibly "I refuse to answer any further questions"...so you don't have to say "no comment" a million times.

[gtarman]

^^ oh and if they ask you *why* you refuse to answer any more questions, don't fall for that lol. Just repeat on saying "I refuse to answer any more questions" until they get the message I'd say. But I'm not a lawyer.

[SayN]

A sniffer dog in a local pub fingered (pawed?) me and I was taken somewhere private to be searched. They found nothing and I wasn't carrying anything but, whilst I tried to say nothing, I was 'encouraged' by one of the officers to suggest that 'I had been at a drug user friends place that afternoon'. He made it quite clear that this would be the best option so eventually I complied.

All I could think about that night was coming to find my house crawling with police.

[gtarman]

^ you got fingered? ...by a dog?

Seriously though, while I guess that is a more ambiguous scenario, I still don't know if you should have said anything or did as he was suggesting (he was basically telling you to say something without regard to it's truth). I don't think you should have worried about police showing up at your house - they would need a warrant and sufficient cause to do that, and if you weren't carrying any drugs and didn't admit to anything then "a sniffer dog stopping you" would be bugger all cause for them to search your house. Legally I don't think they would have any ground to stand on.

If a sniffer dog stops you, but you're not carrying anything and you don't say anything incriminating, they basically have nothing on you that they can use, so they might try and do something like the above to make you admit that you associate with drug-users. Just a thought.

But again, I'm not a lawyer.

Edited November 18, 2013 by gtarman

[SayN]

lol. fingered: to accuse someone of something or to point blame.

It was a split-second decision and in the heat of the moment I decided that the cop was actually giving me a sort of alibi. If i had said I hadn't associated with drug users, or continued to say nothing (or even demanded a lawyer) then they could have made life, or the evening at least, a lot more difficult. It's a tough call, and not easy when you're surrounded by LE.