No more binge stories please- request

[shroomy]

got to agree with chem here. i cant see a problem with trip reports if only to show ppl where you went wrong. and as chem just stated , and i put this as a question? why would shaman be shut down when their are a plethera of drug ,kiddy sick shit sites around that have been up for ages "disclaimer" yes these sites should be fucked off and some of the peeps shot for their sickness. its a question iv been meaning to ask for some time. and as far as the talk of culling and such "qouting some one from spirit plants" should we be careful that moderator does not become dictator and edit does not become censor. i mean really and yes im expecting a roasting here but if was to tell you all about how i took this and that and than that happened than wouldn,t i be the one under threat of prosacution not the owner of the site. i don,t know but really a few true stories now and again cant be that bad can it?

[Darklight]

Damn....didn't make it home after class last night and in the meatime it's all been said in my absence.

Re. the original request. Yes CS you *are* right and I didn't think when I posted it. If it were merely a request I shouldn't have appended the ban for breaching. The whole thing could been phrased more evenly.

I was trying to convey the idea of necessity, and I ended up communicating an imperative that suggested an unanswerable rule. I should have waited until the request was ignored a couple of times before seeing whether repercussions were required. It could have been a process that took months and it would have been more gentle. Apologies from me on that.

*All* decisions I make here are open to an amount of criticism and revision, not endless futile nitpicking mind, but I would expect and *hope* that their be a fair amount of dissent amidst a diverse community and I welcome the input as I understand I'm not perfect- yet. I have even been known to change my mind but I only put my foot down after careful consideration and when something is taking too much time to resolve

When exercising caution re editing posts I have to extend my judgement way beyond the consideration of my own thick hide and assume the readership of a lot of ppl I can only imagine. Nervous parents, ten year olds, cops with a grudge or reporters with a deadline... and sometimes my editing may seem a tad fussy given the nature of the forum. I don't *ever* censor or regulate with any intent beyond the survival of the forums.

In this particular instance I had to make a decision. Binge posts are a freedom of speech which could conceivably result in the closing of the forums at a later date, or its demonisation in the press. Such a presentation is usually countered here by varied public denunciations of recklessness which do convey the impression of a balanced and caring community. Whether they countered the original impressions of recklessness sufficiently to alleviate any possible repercussions was the issue is the final question...and in the binge posts issue I decided it didn't. But I made it a rule too early and now its an issue.

It won't be the last time we, like every other community, are faced with the ethical considerations of our actions as a growing and diverse group. So I suggest we get the processes down pat so its easy. There will doubtless be discussions of a similar nature on different issues...this forum has had a long life, given the lifespans of your average net phemomenon ( yes CS I remember the alt.drugs groups too )so its best not to take the prospect of change so personally

Annd CS go easy on SB willya? He's doing a damn fine job and you're making him nervous. Its unfair. He's doing really well, and it looks to me like the thought of doing it less than perfectly horrifies him, which says a lot for his good intentions towards the community. Work with that and youse'll sort it out

All of you ,whether here or in real life, if you reckon someone's blown it, like I did in the original post, don't assume the worst. Ask nicely for clarification, assume the best of intentions and if they do it again... thengo for the throat

[Darklight]

I know for a fact that people are being driven away by high horses and egotistical behaviour , infact one of my best (internet) friends used to post here on a VERY regular basis but has not visited here for months because of the place it has become.

This procces of change intrigues me. I'm too old to take any of the above statement personally. I'm more interested in the observer's original statement.

But if the person or person's concerned had really cared about the forums & ppl long term it might have been more approriate to post an opinion, get some feedback and been a part of the processes of change, rather than walking off cos it wasn't going to their liking.

If this hadn't been even attempted all I can say is they were only along for the ride, or the stuff that happens here, not just the postings but the process, wasn't really very important to them to begin with

I could be wrong, of course

[Schitztrip]

I think there should be no censorship in the forums.

Surley mereley not responding to posts that you disapprove of, or perhaps posting your disapproval of the actions depicted in the post is a more sensible approach.

I'm not sure i like this desperate attempt to conform and be accepted by the mains of society though, isn’t the premise of any counter-culture to reject that sort of thing. I understand that your coming from a very righteous place – attempting to show people that drug use can be done positively and responsibly, I just Question your methods.

[Darklight]

No censorship at all would be the ideal ( and less work and panic ). But in order for the forum to stay alive there is a need to conform to rules not of our choosing.

I bloody wish someone would set up a forum that wasn't censored somewhere else. Its been mooted a few times, by ppl who then totally fail to go on to do it. No-one's stopping youse and it is an admirable strike for freedom of speech. Go for it, and don't stand round here bleating for someone else to do your work for you.

Surley mereley not responding to posts that you disapprove of, or perhaps posting your disapproval of the actions depicted in the post is a more sensible approach.

Its as valid an approach on an uncensored forum. Where something falls within the guidelines of the forums here its a valid approach and one frequently resorted to. But outside the forum guidelines, which no longer include the hasty ban I placed on binge posts- its not an option. I think the rules are eminently fair.

I'm not sure i like this desperate attempt to conform and be accepted by the mains of society though

Its hardly that. I believe the forum guidelines are a valid way to exercise what freedoms of speech are available to us in order that the forums continue to run. Conforming doesn't come into it.

I just Question your methods

Like I said in another post- I was out of line. And I apologised. And the discussion continues. But question away ....

[Chemical Shaman]

Ok chaps im all argued out , I think everything that I need to say has been said in private emails...

Now lets all sit back and put on some great beats and indulge in illegal substances for the rest of the afternoon.

Hey Satori , I still love ya man , i just think you need to chill a little more.

Im too pooped to go on typing. Who would have thought david would have the balls to take goliath head-on with a mere sling shot.

....peace

CS signing off

[?SaToriBluE?]

Personally I think your no better then mulga chem.

So I will not tell you what I am really thinking because I do not have the time.

I was not going to say it. I have developed a lot of self control and dare I say a little wiser in my time here but just so you know, I thought I would tell you the truth as I see it.

I just know from now on not to ever stand up for you again and that you are not worth my time, so be proud.

Be really careful though chem that they do not stick you under my jurisdiction, I have requested it once before in kind.

I am not afraid of you or mulga or anyone on this forum and if you continue the way your going you will find out how serious I am and that I will not play games.

We have been down this road before chem so you know when I talk like this I am not fucken round. The only thing that protects you right now is the fact this space is Darklights.

How about you chill Chem before it is too late. We all know the moderators are just going to have to suspend your posting rights again sooner or later anyway, they might as well leave it completely up to me to decide how and when for the rest of your SAB career that will be, save them the time and work involved.

[This message has been edited by ?SaToriBluE? (edited 27 September 2001).]

[Chemical Shaman]

Personally I think your no better then mulga chem.

Get fucked Satori. There's a bit of a difference. I stood up for what I believed in. Mulga is a petty fuckwit.

I thought you were being ridiculous so I said it. I was the only one with big enough balls to take the mods head-on. I stuck by my beliefs and said what I had to say.

So I will not tell you what I am really thinking because I do not have the time.

Then put it in an email and send it to me. I don't care , I still love you champ , I can't dislike anybody , that's a major floor with me.

I was not going to say it. I have developed a lot of self control and dare I say a little wiser in my time here but just so you know, I thought I would tell you the truth as I see it.

Which is exactly what i did. I told the truth as I saw it. If only everybody else had of done the same thing instead of remaining quiet and sending me emails saying "Chem I think you are completely right" or "I approve of everything you stand for" then I wouldn't have to carry the bulk of the bullshit. We put a ban on binge stories today and tomorrow it's a ban on [insert current privillege] and so on.

I just know from now on not to ever stand up for you again and that you are not worth my time, so be proud.

Im not worth anyones time. But stand up for what you believe in. Don't stand up for a person based on whether you like them or dislike them. If I had of felt what you were doing was right I would have stood up for you 100% , in this case I thought you were wrong, it had nothing to do with personal feelings towards you , it had to do with my own beliefs. I'll stand up for you tomorrow if I have to. If my own mother banned someone from a forum for a pathetic reason i would shout her down as quick as anyone else. I want you to know this really isn't personal.

Be really careful though chem that they do not stick you under my jurisdiction, I have requested it once before in kind.

I wouldn't care if I was , i'd like to think you would treat me the same way as you would treat anybody else on this forum. As an equal.

Do you want me to leave? Who's juristiction am I under now? I was of the impression that it wasn't the person being moderated but the persons posts ie. i post in the ethnobotany forum and I am under Revilles juristiction I post in here im under Darklights etc etc.

If I break the rules I expect it to be treated the same way as anybody else.

I am not afraid of you

ummmmm that is good....

You have no reason to be. I aint some violent , mass murderer , rapist , assasin. I am Chemical Shaman. im one of the good guys. I still regard you as a friend bitch!

or mulga or anyone and if you continue the way your going you will find out how serious I am and that I will not play games.

dude what the hell are you doing???? Are you threatening me??? Coz i'll have you know im blowing kisses at you right now! What are you on about?

We have been down this road before chem so you know when I talk like this I am not fucken round.

Ok , I take you seriously. You're not fucking around.

The only thing that protects you right now is the fact this space is Darklights.

And what the hell does that mean? If the Chill Space was yours you'd boot me coz you don't like me? Mods are suposed to be unbiased and treat everyone as equals. Rules are rules and they should be the same for everyone.

Anyway it's 12:30am , I've had a shit of a night , and im going to bed.

And you are still getting a Christmas card from me even if you are behaving like a wanker!

love

[Chemical Shaman]

How about you chill Chem before it is too late.

Okay that was definately a threat.

This doesn't change whether or not you're getting a christmas card!

You're getting one!!!!!!

night

[?SaToriBluE?]

No chem I would boot you for being an asshole. Theres a difference. Personally I would settle for a mute button so I could just ignore you, but since this is partly my home too, you self centred prick. I am willing to do it the hard way.

This is the way you want to play it isnt it chem? You have been treating me worse then this. Makin a mockery of who I am just to stroke your own ego.

[This message has been edited by ?SaToriBluE? (edited 27 September 2001).]

[Schitztrip]

Sheesh! You guys must have a very dark history or something, cause gee, I can't see that much offence in what CS is saying.

[Chemical Shaman]

No chem I would boot you for being an asshole. Theres a difference.

Oh now that's fair. Explain to me how I am being the asshole here. Let me know when you come down off this fucked up Power-trip you're on so you can get back to being a decent person.

Personally I would settle for a mute button so I could just ignore you but since this is partly my home too, you self centred prick I am willing to do it the hard way.

How hard is it to ignore someone??

Tell me how im the self centered prick? I was making a stand , not for me necessarily nut for everyone. Show me where anybody but you has said they think binge stories should be banned.....that is self centered! as it is only yourSELF that thinks it.

Oh and I see you are changing your posts to be even more offensive after I have replied to them.

"I would not have been so merciful, nor would I have discussed it or handled it as well as she has. I would have deleted your post and slapped a suspension on you without a second thought."

Im gonna print this out and staple it to my wall so I have a place to spit next time I gag from some edit-happy moderator thinking he can bully people for exercising free will.

What the hell did i do to fire you up so much Satori? Show me the words that inspired this fury.

You're still getting a christmas card you arrogant pigfucker.

[Chemical Shaman]

We all know the moderators are just going to have to suspend your posting rights again sooner or later anyway, they might as well leave it completely up to me to decide how and when for the rest of your SAB career that will be, save them the time and work involved.

Oh I see , is this some sort of lame post-post edit to make it look like you weren't actually threatening me. It's alright , I saved the original post and it was DEFINATELY a threat. Have the moderators indicated in any form that they think it should be your decision how and when my "SAB career" will be ended. What the fuck is an "SAB career" anyway , I come here to chill and post and read , how is that a career? You really are taking this far too seriously Satori , you need to spend less time in front of the machine I think and more time in the real world. You think I give a shit about your petty threats? Go ahead and boot me and I wouldn't care less. When I step outside I have hundreds of people waiting for me that are my friends , male and female , that would do anything to help me and stand by me in a sedcond , im talking about "real" human contact here Satori. I don't need this forum , I have a real world alternative. Can you say the same?

Quit this ego-power-trip nazi bullshit and come back down to the real world , it's much more pleasant down here. And I don't give a fuck if you do hate me , im still calling you my friend , you can kick and scream all you like , you're still my friend.

and you're still getting a christmas card fuckface.

[psycho0]

there may be somethings i don't

know about but fuck!

you're being a bit tough on chem aren't

you satori!

why can't we just discuss this in

a civilised manner without all

the bullshit argueing?

we need to stick together

[Darklight]

Originally posted by ?SaToriBluE?:

We all know the moderators are just going to have to suspend your posting rights again sooner or later anyway,

I would in no way assume no such thing. OK CS is a high- maintenance kinda guy and he travels close to the line sometimes, but he's fun to have around, helpful and informative. In fact he's one of the ppl I'd miss most were this forum to disappear. The fact that he's a pain in the arse does nothing to deflect from the issue

Please don't presume my responses to anything. Moderators don't necessarily travel in packs. This ain't my space either...it's everyones. I have admin duties here, it's not the same as posession.

We put a ban on binge stories today and tomorrow it's a ban on [insert current privillege] and so on.

Not necessarily so. One act does not necessarily imply another. But I can imagine that further restrictions may become necessary if laws were to change and I hope that in that event any changes would be handled with good grace. But really, I'm against putting extra rules in here cos I'm a lazy bitch who has to spend hours making you all behave

Stop hassling CS, SB, you know better. And you'll regret it in a day or so when you read back over your posts anyhow I reckon. Don't threaten anyone in this forum, and if you have personal differences between you please take them to email. CS I know you're being reasonable here- at the moment -but the argument is so pointless and off topic that feeding it isn't helping.

[Darklight]

Show me where anybody but you has said they think binge stories should be banned

Me. I did. However I changed my mind once I realised the implications of such a ban and I realised I'd been waaay too hasty. Call it a learning curve.

Many people have alse expressed ambivalence or discomfort to binge posts, which helped mme in my temporary delusio. Maybe its not so much a matter of wanting binge posts banned as wishing they'd go away.But in hindsight, the ban was wrong.

Im gonna print this out and staple it to my wall so I have a place to spit next time I gag from some edit-happy moderator thinking he can bully people for exercising free will.

You mean me, love? I've probably chided you more than anyone here but hell you're no angel and if you agree to the conditions of membership don't be surprised if your wrist gets slapped when you break them

I wouldn't silence your voice for quids matey...stuff a sock down your throat from time to time, but that's for recreational purposes only

No chem I would boot you for being an asshole. Theres a difference.

Not on this forum you don't. In fact under the forum rules it would be really difficult to justify either. IMO one of the reasons the rules are so thin on the ground here is to prevent exactly this kind of arbitrary behaviour happening.

And every now and again I get serious twinges of nausea...ppl occasionally present moderator activities a though we are a kind of Illuminati, a unified force, tapping at our keyboards in darkened rooms, in constant contact, with a malevolent unspoken and shared purpose. It bugs me to hear you talk like that too SB, I may be being paranoid on this as it only takes a hint of it to set my alarms off but you're a mod too and should be careful with it.

Like I said, moderators don't travel in packs, though a cup of cofffee two or three times a year is a nice idea. It's amazing how little contact we have with each other and when we do its rarely about forum issues. Collusion happens only when necessary, like with the mulga thing, and doesn't take long to sort out.

So for those of you out there who imagine that we constitute some kind of powerful uber-class dispensing an unknowable justice and a muttered commentary on daily forum activities and sub-plots, I commend your imaginative prowess but must remind you that the truth is vastly more mudane. Sorry.

[Torsten]

Satori and CS, what you are posting here has gone way beyond the actual topic and maybe you would both be better off to take this to private e-mails before you make complete tools of yourselves.

I don't appreciate moderator status being used as a threat. I also don't appreciate the moderators being attacked like this for what they are doing. A little common sense on both sides should put this matter to rest in no time.

As for the ban in binge stories, I am not for it as long as people can excercise a little selfcontrol (strange request from people who are playing with death). One of my fave books is D.M.Turner's, but at least his multi drug use was constructive and gave some real info and insights. It is also worthy to note that he died during one of his experiments and that was the end of his books.

It is common for this community to push things over the edge to its own detriment. If standing in the way of the lemming parade causes people to dislike me for the control I excercise here, then so be it. I am hellbent on keeping this place alive as I have much bigger plans for it.

[Guest reville]

Hey CS. i too really like to read trip reports but couldnt you just post em at the lycaeum and link us to them - they have a board devoted to this kind of thing.Even the chill space only has so much room for binge stories before wed have to change its name.

The loss of the only decent Australian forum is a remote possibility but the effcts would be crippling for some of us separated by distance (its a means of daily contact between east and west, north and south)

Darklights been very accomodating, can you please show some willingness to find your half of the solution?

[Darklight]

Originally posted by reville:

Darklights been very accomodating, can you please show some willingness to find your half of the solution?

Gosh, you're making me out to be some kinda monster . Nah I jes reckon the two of them are being silly, on alternate days and in turn, and they both know better

[waterdragon]

now look here chem, i had been trying hard to not post on this topic but you gone done forced my hand. was happily reading away not willing to post my opinion coz i could see the virtues of both arguments for and against censoring but this response you just drew was some spectacular shit. you have the gift, use it wisely. oh dear - kisses and chrissy cards, i have tears and just a little wee. gracias.