Sapo/kambo

[endorfinder]

Does anyone have anything with this substance? Like most I've only come to know of its traditional use in the last few years, outside the curio that is dermorphin. It is for me the most intriguing and promising new spiritual substance since ibogaine.

Particularly interested in hearing from Australians with experience locally abroad or wherever

[Micromegas]

Hey ethno, it is an interesting medicine for sure, but you didn't share your thoughts. I am on the fence about its therapeutic benefits but I would do it again given the opportunity, because i have heard highly of this fellow. Basically, though, I believe it does have benefit. What I enjoyed was the lack of any significant emotional content, unlike ayahuasca for example where the purge is as much emotional and physical and can be long, and tortuous, and did I say tortuous. That is the blessing of ayahuasca and the limitation of kambo, I think. It is a purgative and emetic at its core, ayahuasca has more dimensions. but I like that little frog. I have the feeling, that frog is awesome, and true benefit may derive from regular application, which is true of most sacraments, but not, perhaps, Iboga (which i don't know personally). The context of its administration is key, like most sacraments, and in my experience i thought the administration was excellent and in good hands, and that is why i feel so positive toward this as a medicine. Of Phyllomedusa bicolor I am a fan, being an important component of nature's pharmacy and university for men, and medicinal toads and frogs are intriguing through and through. I met the Sonoran Desert Toad down in Arizona, now that fellow is a full on spirit healer and the fact that that critter is loading up on such a pure compound down under the earth is a mystery for sure. That these amphibians can work on human spirit is no accident in my book. What is the legal status of kambo, btw? Cheers, Micro.

[endorfinder]

No, I was slightly hesitant about sharing my thoughts when throwing it out there for the first time. Thanks Micromegas.

It seems like a completely new experience that can redefine the way we think of entheogens. The kind of catharsis it promises, especially with ongoing administration, would appear to be both complementary with "traditional" psychedelic spirit medicine such as aya and iboga. It's almost like the two appear to be attacking similar problems from entirely different directions... not having taken part in the frog I have no basis for comparison however.

Iboga is the granddaddy of the sacrements in my eyes. Look into it.

From everything I read, repeated, ongoing dosing even if on a fairly loose schedule is required to obtain maximum benefit from sapo.

The toads are special but they have nothing on Phyllomedusa bicolor. We're not talking about a couple of basic tryptamines here that are found all over nature, the complex blend of peptides in sapo/kambo is extraordinary and deserves much, much more investigation than simply dermorphin's curiosity interest as an opioid peptide which will cross the BBB after IV administration.

I am not aware of any part of sapo being illegal, although living in queensland i'm well aware that rum & raisin ice cream is now a triple offense so wtf knows. The biggest issue would be dermorphin, which has euphoric µ opioid action in isolation, but not as a part of the sapo venom mix.

May I ask, how much have you experienced the medicine yourself? Locally or internationally? I am more than willing to travel to experience this.

cheers mate -ef

[Micromegas]

It seems like a completely new experience that can redefine the way we think of entheogens

It hasn't in any way altered the way I think about entheogens. I think about them just the same as before, but I am glad to know kambo. I'm not 100% sure i would class sapo as an entheogen really, but it is a special medicine. I have only tried it once and there is no way to make anything like a complete judgement from one experience, so I admit my lack of understanding, and, additionally, I apologise to kambo for any provisional mistakes i have made in my judgement, for I know there is much to learn.

The kind of catharsis it promises, especially with ongoing administration, would appear to be both complementary with "traditional" psychedelic spirit medicine such as aya and iboga. It's almost like the two appear to be attacking similar problems from entirely different directions...

Absolutely. I would, however, be cautious of using sapo and ayahuasca too close together although I am sure this has and is done regularly. Even complementary medicines can clash on an energetic level if not given their own space.

Iboga is the granddaddy of the sacrements in my eyes. Look into it.

I've read extensively about Iboga when I was first learning about plant medicine (I am still learning of course!). I think it is fascinating. The difficulty of using this plant in its cultural setting has steered me away from an encounter. I doubt I will ever use Iboga now, but I am very happy to know it's out there.

From everything I read, repeated, ongoing dosing even if on a fairly loose schedule is required to obtain maximum benefit from sapo.

Yes, i couldn't agree more. I think this is the real key for sapo and it why I would use it again if I had the chance. I feel that even using it now it would pick up from where it left off last time. Ayahuasca is like that too, but in a more multifaceted way.

The toads are special but they have nothing on Phyllomedusa bicolor. We're not talking about a couple of basic tryptamines here that are found all over nature, the complex blend of peptides in sapo/kambo is extraordinary and deserves much, much more investigation than simply dermorphin's curiosity interest as an opioid peptide which will cross the BBB after IV administration.

I don't know anything about chemistry, haha.

The sacraments cannot be easily compared. They fit into a worldwide matrix of indescribable complexity in which every individual who comes to them, fits differently. I do think, however, that 5-meo-DMT is one of the surest methods to understand death. Sapo will not take you there but it may prove to be exceptionally good for the body, and so for the spirit, complementary with the other medicines as you suggest.

May I ask, how much have you experienced the medicine yourself? Locally or internationally? I am more than willing to travel to experience this

I'd rather not say. I was cautious enough even discussing the subject on this forum.

One thing I enjoyed about kambo was the long process of watching the burns heal on my arm. That seemed to be part of the healing received.

I have no doubt that kambo is special because I have a good feeling about that little guy on reflection. What an awesome frog!

.

[Octopus]

You should watch Hamilton.

http://www.vice.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/the-sapo-diaries-episode-1-1

[Scarecrow]

WHAT even-

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=81674

"It looks like my fibromyalgia simply went away"

...okay, now I'm intrigued.

[endorfinder]

I will reply to this when I can do justice to the above contributions, apologies.

[Scarecrow]

Another fantastic read on erowid:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=85688

this one goes into a lot of detail regarding its traditional uses

[∂an]

here is an informative interview with a kambo practioner:

http://in-a-perfect-world.podomatic.com/entry/2011-01-24T05_30_04-08_00

[drugo]

Monkey-Frog at the Racetrack: Horse dope from the Amazon (Phyllomedusa frog venom)

Monkey-frog horse race? It sounds like some cross-species monster competition dreamed up by Dr. Moreau or Monsanto.

More than thirty racehorses in Louisiana, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Texas have tested positive for an illegal performance-enhancing drug derived from South American frog venom. As reported in today’s issue of the New York Times, racing regulators have long suspected that trainers were doping horses with dermorphin, a painkiller forty times more powerful than morphine that is found in skin secretions of the Waxy Monkey Leaf Frog, Phyllomedusa sauvagii, traded internationally as an exotic pet. Dermorphin belongs to a novel class of compounds first identified in skin secretions of the related frog species Phyllomedusa bicolor, used as a stimulant by indigenous hunters of the Amazon. Frog venom had so far evaded detection in racehorse drug screening until Denver-based Industrial Laboratories tweaked its tests.

Several Phyllomedusa species have toxic skin secretions

The Spiritain missionary Constantin Tastevin was the first outsider to document the use of frog toxins known locally as kampo by Cashinahua (Kaxinawa) Indians of the upper Juruá River in Brazil. The Cashinahua collect secretions from the Giant Waxy Monkey Frog (Phyllomedusa bicolor) and administer the substance directly into the bloodstream through small wounds burned with smoldering twigs on the skin. The treatment produces short-lived bouts of nausea, sweating, vomiting, diarrhea and sometimes unconsciousness, but leaves the user with a lasting sense of strength, well-being and heightened sense perception. The treatment is especially valued by indigenous hunters for improving their stamina, skill and luck at hunting. "Hunting magic," as it is sometimes (and perhaps erroneously) called, proves to be an important category of traditional medicine in Amazonia.

Since Tastevin’s early record, kampo use has been documented by anthropologists among other indigenous groups of the Brazil-Peru border region including the Amahuaca, Yaminahua, Matis, Matses (Mayoruna), Marubo, Katukina and Yawanawa.[ii] Writer Peter Gorman’s 1993 article in Omni magazine[iii] on Matses "magic" in Peru -- echoing Gordon Wasson's famous 1957 story[iv] on the magic mushrooms of Mexico -- generated widespread popular interest in the substance. More recently, indigenous healers from the state of Acre have brought the “frog vaccine” to urban centers throughout Brazil as part of an expansion and popularization of indigenous shamanistic practices.[v]

Indigenous healers administer frog secretions directly into the bloodstream by means of small burns to the skin.

(Photo source: Théo Brandão Festival of Ethnographic Film and Photography).

Berkeley anthropologist Katharine Milton first collected scientific samples of Phyllomedusa bicolor secretions among the Mayoruna of Brazil[vi] (the same group known as Matses on the Peruvian side of the border), and ensuing studies have revealed novel chemical compounds with a wide range of physiological and neurological activities.[vii] Over 20 patents have since been registered on various compounds derived from Phyllomedusa venom, including dermorphin which is now synthesized and sold on-line.

Racehorse trainers have been known to use other exotic substances including cobra venom to improve horse performance and cheat at the tracks. In addition to its analgesic effects, masking the pains of overexertion by horse or man, dermorphin appears to produce physiological excitement and euphoria. Two of the horses testing positive for the substance in Louisiana had earned substantial purses. As Louisiana's Racing Commission director Charles A. Gardiner III told the Times, “A lot of money’s got to be given back.”

If only such ill-gotten winnings could be returned to the Matses…

http://ethnoground.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/monkey-frog-at-racetrack-horse-dope.html