lagochilus inebrians fake versus real seeds

[planthelper]

hi!

I have grown and germinated the real lagochilus befor, and I have heard of fake/wrong lago seeds being sold aswell, in the past.

yesterday, I stumbled onto those fake lago seeds, for the first time, and I think they were sourced from shamanic plants.

I think we have discussed this topic before and some members even knew what the fake lago seeds real name was, but I don't remember names well...

anyway, fake lago seeds on the left, real Turkistan mint on the right:

I assume this is not a malicious mistake by the vendor, but rather that, those seeds got collected in the wild, in the same area as lago grows, and that those plants might be regarded by the local collectors, pretty much the same thing as the real lago.

real lago flower:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=galleryℑ=314

Edited April 3, 2013 by planthelper
dyslexic error

[Scarecrow]

anyway, fake lago seeds on the right, real Turkistan mint on the right:lago_fake&real.JPG

haha, what?

[planthelper]

thx 4 that, scarecrow!

mistake fixed.

Edited April 1, 2013 by planthelper

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Thanks for this thread PH. I've just setup an indoor grow area exclusively for this plant (temp/humidity controlled) and am now about to source my seed. This will come in very handy and believe it or not, 25mins ago I added it to my cart at Shamanic plants! Cheers mate.

D00d

[planthelper]

I took my real lago seeds out of the lagochilus herb which get's traded over the net, you get ton's of seeds and the herb as well.

shamanic plants, doesn't sell the real deal.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Ill have a search around for some herb in aust later this evening. A positive is you can bio essay the material before you grow too, I like it <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

[quarterflesh]

if anyone can thorw a source my way id love to get my hands on some, cheers

[Thelema]

seriously, has anyone ever got a mindblowing intoxication off lagochilus?

I've never seen such a report...

[planthelper]

seriously, has anyone ever got a mindblowing intoxication off lagochilus?

I've never seen such a report...

i'v never heard of a mindblowing intoxication of cannabis either (till synthetic came around), and still it's seems to be quite popular, hehehe.

lago is the closest thing to pot, for me. some people seem to be a bit immune to the effects.

I rate it as top notch ethno.

I sourced it from those two people, querbeet and bouncing bear.

I would go for querbeet:

http://www.querbeet.at/catalog/index.php

[quarterflesh]

is that german? i dont even know where to start on that page

[whitewind]

Saman (semen) is seed. Sporen is spore. Krauten is herb? Extracten = extract, Pflantzen is plant.

I ran a search for Lagochilus, didn't come up.

[quarterflesh]

ahh cheers, i found some here http://www.shamansgarden.com/p-244-lagochilus-intoxicating-mint-seeds.aspx anyone ever order from here?

[LokStok]

ahh cheers, i found some here http://www.shamansgarden.com/p-244-lagochilus-intoxicating-mint-seeds.aspx anyone ever order from here?

Where Don't You Ship To?

- We do not generally ship to AUSTRALIA; they seem to have almost everything we offer banned, including Salvia, Calamus, Morning Glory Seeds, HBWR seeds, Wormwood, etc. See PROHIBITED IMPORTS.

*edit- I bought some dried herb from here last year, had approx 20 seeds in it, havnt sown any yet.

Edited April 2, 2013 by LokStok

[Thelema]

Hmm wormwood herb shouldn't be an issue...although I can see how those others are.

Someone needs to do some serious research on HBWR fungus

[planthelper]

ok, this is the page they call it rausch minze.

I collected around 40 seeds out of their herb.

http://www.querbeet.at/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/91?osCsid=9e0cf49d67558ce006ef13174d347186

[Marcel]

Wow. Great thread, planthelper. I've been hoping to get my hands on this plant for ages. I worry about the chances of the seeds/herb getting through the post, however. Is it problematic?

Anyone in Australia having luck growing it? From seed?

[shortly]

Just a word of caution LocStock, since that link is to evilbay & paypal is wired directly into customs & quarantine it may be wiser to shop directly on their wed site rather than through evilbay.

http://www.worldseedsupply.org/

[planthelper]

Wow. Great thread, planthelper. I've been hoping to get my hands on this plant for ages. I worry about the chances of the seeds/herb getting through the post, however. Is it problematic?

Anyone in Australia having luck growing it? From seed?

I know only of two people who managed to grow it from seed, Darren and me.

I believe the colder parts of oz would be better for growing this plant, just compare it's native habitat, with your own.

said to live for many years, needs cold stratification (use fridge or sow out over winter), to germinate (I hope I will find the old posts, and than give them a tag, so they should show up neatly underneath)

mine suffered from mildew. seeds are probably viable for a long time.

aceton exctracting the herb, and than smoking the resin, seems to work fine.

my home grown plants were stronger than the herb sold over the net.

edit: I cannot place tags at the exchange forum, so I post the link, it's a very informative thread, thank's to member Maurice!

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24562&hl=+lagochilus +inebrians&page=2

Edited April 3, 2013 by planthelper
added link

[planthelper]

forgot about those brillant lagochilus threads:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2827&hl=+lagochilus +inebrians

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2652&hl=%2Blagochilus+%2Binebrians

Edited April 3, 2013 by planthelper

[Torsten]

The seeds darklight and myself grew came from Carl who was given them by Drs Ikramov who do all the taxonomic and ethnobotanic work on L.inebrians in Uzbekistan. The seeds everyone else [rev, Darren, others overseas] grew I think came from Dr Minas and were later found to be a different species [C.cabulicus]. While I have not kept up with all the Lago dramas the last few years, at least for the first few years the only people who had actually grown L inebrians were darklight and myself.

My plants got to the late flowering stage and then succumbed to humidity in mid january. two years in a row. I was only a couple of weeks away from fresh viable seed <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_sad.png I decided not to bother with them again until i have a climate controlled room.

The seeds from imported herb is unlikely to be inebrians as there was almost no wild population of this and no one was farming it anymore. The commercial channels for herb were mostly set up by Dr Minas and his material consisted of two species - neither of which was inebrians.

It is always good to keep this quote from carl's presentation in mind, keeping in mind that this information is from the foremost authority on this species in Uzbekistan: " Dr Ikramov only knows of about half a dozen or so plants in the Samarkand area, and only another half a dozen or so plants in the neighbouring Nuratau region. He is also unaware of any commercial cultivation programmes (e.g. by pharmaceutical companies) or non-profit cultivation programmes (e.g. ex-colleagues, plant clubs)."

mindperformer has some details on Dr Minas and the armenian sources:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33536&p=397535

I am not sure if there is an error in your seed image naming planthelper, but the bag on the RIGHT is what real inebrians seeds look like. No idea what the stuff on the left is. I still have plenty of real inebrians seeds here. After the problems in the first 2 years I did not want to waste more. And as the seed was already over 5 years old I did not think another year or two would make uch of a difference. Sadly the viability went from 50% at over 5 years to zero within 2 years. Drs Ikramov suggested to carl that moisture would be a big problem for this seed, so I presume the local humidity killed them quickly.

[Torsten]

Ikramov seed

My inebrians seedlings

mature Ikramov plant

I've got a shitload more pics of both types, but they are all 3meg so need to edit them down before the uploader will accept them. Plenty of flower and stem close up for proper ID.

[Torsten]

Plants I grew from seeds I got from MJB. Probably L. cabulicus

[AndyAmine.]

So the seeds you have are from a similar batch to the ones being shown around during the talk at the last Ethnobotanica?

[planthelper]

The seeds darklight and myself grew came from Carl who was given them by Drs Ikramov who do all the taxonomic and ethnobotanic work on L.inebrians in Uzbekistan. The seeds everyone else [rev, Darren, others overseas] grew I think came from Dr Minas and were later found to be a different species [C.cabulicus]. While I have not kept up with all the Lago dramas the last few years, at least for the first few years the only people who had actually grown L inebrians were darklight and myself.

My plants got to the late flowering stage and then succumbed to humidity in mid january. two years in a row. I was only a couple of weeks away from fresh viable seed <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_sad.png I decided not to bother with them again until i have a climate controlled room.

The seeds from imported herb is unlikely to be inebrians as there was almost no wild population of this and no one was farming it anymore. The commercial channels for herb were mostly set up by Dr Minas and his material consisted of two species - neither of which was inebrians.

It is always good to keep this quote from carl's presentation in mind, keeping in mind that this information is from the foremost authority on this species in Uzbekistan: " Dr Ikramov only knows of about half a dozen or so plants in the Samarkand area, and only another half a dozen or so plants in the neighbouring Nuratau region. He is also unaware of any commercial cultivation programmes (e.g. by pharmaceutical companies) or non-profit cultivation programmes (e.g. ex-colleagues, plant clubs)."

mindperformer has some details on Dr Minas and the armenian sources:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33536&p=397535

I am not sure if there is an error in your seed image naming planthelper, but the bag on the RIGHT is what real inebrians seeds look like. No idea what the stuff on the left is. I still have plenty of real inebrians seeds here. After the problems in the first 2 years I did not want to waste more. And as the seed was already over 5 years old I did not think another year or two would make uch of a difference. Sadly the viability went from 50% at over 5 years to zero within 2 years. Drs Ikramov suggested to carl that moisture would be a big problem for this seed, so I presume the local humidity killed them quickly.

my dyslexia got the better of me, and I could not separate left from right, further more, when scarcrow made me aware of my first mistake, my attempt of correction, just produced an even worse mistake.

it's fixed now, the real ones are on the right!

I obviously have had the right seed, so I was one of the first to grow the correct plant, not sure why tort, claims nobody else grew the right stuff.

as well I managed to produce my own seed, as always I say, store your seeds in the fridge, like this they last 3 times as long, keeping them exposed to the humidity, as above post refers to, is not the best method. darklight reported, partly germination, of her old seeds, a couple months ago, I think she said the radicle emerged, and removing of the seed coat, might get even some old seeds germinating.

[Torsten]

it's fixed now, the real ones are on the right!

I obviously have had the right seed, so I was one of the first to grow the correct plant, not sure why tort, claims nobody else grew the right stuff.

as well I managed to produce my own seed, as always I say, store your seeds in the fridge, like this they last 3 times as long, keeping them exposed to the humidity, as above post refers to, is not the best method. darklight reported, partly germination, of her old seeds, a couple months ago, I think she said the radicle emerged, and removing of the seed coat, might get even some old seeds germinating.

it's fixed now, the real ones are on the right!

yeah, I assumed that's what it was. Those other seeds don't look anything like seeds from this genus.

I obviously have had the right seed, so I was one of the first to grow the correct plant, not sure why tort, claims nobody else grew the right stuff.

read what I wrote here and in plenty of other threads. There are virtually no inebrians plants left. It is an endangered species. All the herb that is being sold around the world is unlikely to be inebrians. Just think, at the time that Ikramov told Carl that there are only a handful of plants left, already kilos and kilos were being dumped onto the market. Don't know about you, but I don't see how you can get kilos and kilos from a handful of plants.

It's no big deal though as several other species seems to be just as active. The herb we were getting at the time produced seedlings virtually identical to inebrians, but the was identified as not being inebrians by an Iranian taxonomist who specialises in Lagochilus.

To be honest, I still doubt that anyone else has grown the real thing, but i can virtually guarantee that at the time [around 2004-2006] no one had inebrians. There are some very distinct morphological differences between inebrians and the plants you are growing at the moment, so my guess is you still don't have inebrians. I am not sure what this obsession is with trying to claim to be growing one species, when the evidence against it has been around for years. Dr Minas fooled everyone for years and that's why darren and rev claimed to have the real thing. Good thing that they also told some people that their seed cam from Dr Minas or they would still be making those claims - just like you are. To me it seems just as important to have any other Lagochilus species as long as it is active - making erroneous claims [whether that is from dr Minas or anyone else who sourced seed via him or others] seems silly.

store your seeds in the fridge

And you think the fridge is not more humid than uzbekistan? obviously we stored the seed in the fridge. But plastic can only keep out so much moisture.

Andy, yes, carl did a presentation at one of the ethnoboanicas after his trip to Uzbekistan and showed both well preserved dried material and the seeds. I have lots of photos of both, but like I said I need to edit them down before posting. I had intended to do a cultivation log thread all those years ago, but forgot.