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whitewind

Australian Ethnobotanical Association

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How about something that "No further plants be banned, and the existing banned ones are investigated for their potential to aid mankind"

 

I like where you are going with this, but it seems a bit wordy. Maybe something like:

"For the investigation of all plants and their potential aid to mankind"

This would obviously include even banned plants, and is a good way to show that we merely want to investigate, and not just to immediately advocate for the unbanning of any plants. This would hopefully get us to the point where they will be more open to research and facts rather than fear-mongering and propaganda.

I also think that this would open the door for the Ethno-scientists to get involved and actually give them an association that can bring them and us together.

I see that you are based in Sydney, as am I, and fair few others that might want to be involved in getting this going. I would love to see what your ideas for the constitution are.

Edited by Roopey
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No more negativity please or reporting will comence. Thanks for all the good ideas everyone they're much appreciated. Updates later we have an idea for a mission statement and a bit more

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one of the few times i agree with psylo dread (aka bi-lo bread) ..

you need PhDs man. i respect your intention but the people you're trying to get to take notice will probably pick you as moneyless street-hippies preaching 'free the plants' pretty quickly. i don't know your background or circumstances but things like this are usually started by people with experience and credentials in a related field, in collaboration with other professionals.

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One only needs intelligence...to start a project, with perserverance the supporters with PhDs qualifications will collaborate and eventuate..faith is beautiful it has the might to overcome all obstacles! A small seed can grow into a mighty oak!

Edited by applesnail
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I am sorry but I do not understand why you would think that it necessary for people to have PhDs or to have "experience and credentials in a related field, in collaboration with other professionals". I actually find that most people with PhDs and university taught professionals in these sort of fields are worse than any money less street hippies as far as sitting around procrastinating or pushing there own agenda.

Maybe I am looking at this in the wrong way but isn't this about protecting our plants that us and many other Australians grow in there gardens ?

I would have thought that setting this up to get the average gardener on side including the garden clubs and high profile gardeners like TV, radio and print gardening gurus.

I believe that if this is only going to target Ethno growers then it will end up being more hot air than any thing else. If you wont to make changers happen then it is a numbers game. The more support that you can muster the more people will take notice and then every one will want to get on board.

If you try and make changers to suit few hundred people then no one is going to listen.

Cheers

Got

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> isn't this about protecting our plants that us and many other Australians grow in there gardens ?

No! i'd say <1% of the population have a garden that they would call 'ethnobotanical'. this issue is specific to a group of people who may not want you acting as though you're acting on their behalf (this would be me included..)

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All talk no action. As usual.

 

TALKING IS AN ACTION

taking action without thought and planning and consultation is idiotic

the oppressive laws and system we currently have, and indeed much of the oppression in the world generally can be blamed on this much believed but obviously stupidly sinister slogan:

JUST DO IT.

fucking grow up and stop grandstanding, you supported Greg when he was talking about doing something? Opposed and refused to speak to anyone who even questioned him? now look at you...

pffffffffffffft

I don't know what all this PhD shit is, lobbying and activist groups come in all shapes and sizes, nothing wrong with homegrown grass roots stuff at all, in fact it can often effect more change than a bunch of stiffs in suits sitting around having a big beauracratic wankfest and achieving nothing.

Edited by chilli
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> isn't this about protecting our plants that us and many other Australians grow in there gardens ?

No! i'd say <1% of the population have a garden that they would call 'ethnobotanical'. this issue is specific to a group of people who may not want you acting as though you're acting on their behalf (this would be me included..)

 

Well actually a number of the plants that we are talking about are in a lot of Australian gardens. This is not just a ethnobotanical issue. Have you even read the list of the targeted plants?

Daturas are a common garden plant as well as a classified weed in some states

Brugmansia a common garden plant

Wattles a common garden plant as well as a native ( plus a number of other DMT containing plants)

Catha edulis a common garden and landscaping plant

Cacti a common garden plant as well as a large number of collectors with hundreds if not thousands of plants in each collection

I know of a number of gardens that would have more than ten of one particular plant in there garden as well as a nursery that sells brug's and all of them a within a small area around were I live.

If you don't want us to act on your behalf then don't become a member of the association. Maybe you could get together with you university mates and write a paper because that always makes change happen in record time.You could also join hands and chant that also seems to make the politicians sit up and take notice.

Cheers

Got

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Have you even read the list of the targeted plants?

yeh good one. i had no idea.

Maybe you could get together with you university mates and write a paper because that always makes change happen in record time

i'm too baked to pretend i care about this.

tin-pot internet activist shenanigans :lol: god love ye!

just opinions, sending only good vibes,

.

Edited by self organising systems

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hahahahahahaa, dear Lord. Did it ever stop. This isn't play group, you need to man up and accept criticism once in a while without running to mommy. The fact is, that you have NO scope of enacting what you are proposing. You have no funding, no physical premises, and as far as I can determine, no experience, nor aptitude or business acumen to enact your proposal.

Hi Psylo,

I just didn't want the thread to degenerate into a childish name-calling exercise is all. We are very serious about this and are having a meeting in just a few minutes to see progress, will give an update at least on the funds we require - had a brilliant offer to auction plants on SAB to raise funds, which I won't accept til we have something concrete. Psylo, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, you would be welcome to attend the first meeting, as either an observer or potential member, or if you feel you might have something to offer, as a founding member. I will admit, I don't have all the attributes you list - but an association is a group of people, some of whom will probably be much more capable of certain things than I am. That's the whole point. I can't do it all myself, but a group of like-minded individuals with different talents stands a much better chance. That's why groups are formed, that's how corporations work, and that's what an association is. Being essentially a plant society, membership would be freely available to all who want to join - for a small fee to cover costs - and all members can make submissions, float ideas, attend meetings and get involved in any way they think is appropriate.

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Model constitution from NSW fair trading, seems fairly standard.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/About_us/Publications/FT412_Model_Constitution.pdf

Possible ‘mission statement.’

The sharing of historical and practical ethnobotanical knowledge by observing dietary, medicinal and recreational relationships that exist between plants and people with an emphasis on sustainable practices and availability of such plants.

Costs:

One-off Startup Cost

$433 to register the association

Yearly Running Costs:

$320

We don't think, legally, that we need an accredited auditor for a small association or society. However, the books would need to be checked and a standard accountant would be able to do that.

$100 book-keeper

$100 for public liability insurance (estimate from other plant society)

$120 for a website

Plus monies for advertising etc.

_______________________

We would need to arrange a meeting prior to initial incorporation to nut out a few ideas and concepts, and we will need to fundraise a bit to meet the costs - esp. that startup cost which is a bit higher than I expected.

Edited by whitewind

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> isn't this about protecting our plants that us and many other Australians grow in there gardens ?

No! i'd say <1% of the population have a garden that they would call 'ethnobotanical'. this issue is specific to a group of people who may not want you acting as though you're acting on their behalf (this would be me included..)

 

You would be welcome to join an organisation which is largely made up of other members of people who also belong to the Corroboree, EA and so on, which is devoted to spreading information and preventing restriction of plants. Or you can make up your own group, or go it alone. To me, an association is simply the legal face of a group of people, it allows certain things to happen and it puts a name-tag which we can hang things from. It's not about me and my mates, it's about a dedicated group of people willing to put time and effort into organising and campaigning. All I'm trying to do is break the deadlock where the government places ever-more restrictive controls on people's lives for no good reason, and reconnect people back to nature. As I say, if you want to take part, PM me. We need dedicated, intelligent (but not necessarily lettered) people to make this work.

I am sorry but I do not understand why you would think that it necessary for people to have PhDs or to have "experience and credentials in a related field, in collaboration with other professionals". I actually find that most people with PhDs and university taught professionals in these sort of fields are worse than any money less street hippies as far as sitting around procrastinating or pushing there own agenda.

We don't need people with PhD's that's not what this is about, we need people with dedication and enthusiasm. My job got taken over by someone with more than a few letters after his name and, quite frankly, he's really shit at it because what is required is someone who can be practical not someone who is obsessed with minor details and researching everything before he even lifts a finger to do the simplest of tasks. There are plenty of street hippies who have done amazing things with their life; arguably one reason people become hippies is because they can see the disconnect between reality and human culture, it forces them to re-evaluate and take even more notice of what's going on. Simply questioning the status quo effectively is an intellectual ability far and beyond rote learning (memory tricks).

I believe that if this is only going to target Ethno growers then it will end up being more hot air than any thing else. If you wont to make changers happen then it is a numbers game. The more support that you can muster the more people will take notice and then every one will want to get on board. If you try and make changers to suit few hundred people then no one is going to listen.

 

That's a concern that's been floated a few times on these boards; it's a bit worrying because it's so negative. I think the reason most people find it difficult to get up and do something is because, as an individual, they are worried that they be noticed or targetted by the authorities. Also, people without strong ego's find it difficult to put themselves forward and say hey, I'm good enough to do this (even if they are) and also find it more difficult to act alone, and lastly because the negativity surrounding trying to achieve something is quite strong.

The mission statement is a wordy version of what I said earlier, to spread information and prevent restriction. It is also ambiguous enough to draw in people who aren't ethno-heads. The core group will be (unlike other ethnobotanical societies / associations / groups worldwide who tend to be interested in construction materials, dyes etc.) but other members may not. It's a real problem, because if ethno growers aren't supportive enough and we are successful enough to get other groups involved, they may get more powerful and vote themselves in, so losing the original emphasis and drive. That's why I want all the founding members and original committee to be people from here, to keep the direction and make it work.

I like where you are going with this, but it seems a bit wordy. Maybe something like:

"For the investigation of all plants and their potential aid to mankind"

This would obviously include even banned plants, and is a good way to show that we merely want to investigate, and not just to immediately advocate for the unbanning of any plants. This would hopefully get us to the point where they will be more open to research and facts rather than fear-mongering and propaganda.

I also think that this would open the door for the Ethno-scientists to get involved and actually give them an association that can bring them and us together.

I see that you are based in Sydney, as am I, and fair few others that might want to be involved in getting this going. I would love to see what your ideas for the constitution are.

 

That's exactly how I am thinking, and I like your mission statement, it's a bit less wordy than ours. I haven't had time to figure out a constitution, but it will be based on the model - for legal purposes, it explains how it is structured, how members can join etc. Apart from minor details it's not worth getting too excited about, apart from perhaps detailing out the mssion statement I think, which I will try to do this weekend.

My biggest concern at the moment, having looked into this, is not the possibility that we can get it started, but whether we can get it going quickly enough. I want to organise a protest immediately, and place a submission to the government with the AEA as a backing, but the startup cost is prohibitive and we don't have enough people together yet to form a working group. Keep you updated.

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Organise an Auction with SAB then contact Channel 7 and tell them what your doing, get the facebook ,Twitter slut machine Roaring. Use the enemy to tell all the people they can twist it as much as they like its free advertising its GOOD .Contact community Radio they will love this, even ABC radio gardening theirs a lot of old ducks out there that don't want to be perceived as criminals. lol

If we can get a enough people to donate some plants, seeds / books etc to auction you will hit that $700 mark your looking for.

I'd donate some cacti seedlings and what ever else I could stratch up.

This is all very achievable if you need a QLD arm I will give it a push from this end. Get the 4ZZZd crowd interested, but I am sure someone from AEA would be on that?

Edited by Stillman
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I was thinking, and it might be a good idea to have Our constitution have a "Bill of Rights" that outlines our stance on human rights In regards to their interaction with plants. This would have to be done in a way that is not overly radical, so that if Joe Blo were to read it he would feel inspired to interact with plants and to support the stance that we should be more curious about how the plants may be able to help us live in a more sustainable way.

I will write something up and see if it works. You guys might want to write one up as well and then we can just use the best ideas from all of them.

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Just a thought:

Maybe just get a petition going, then lobby someone like The Sex Party or the Liberal Democratic Party to act on your behalf or something...it's the sort of thing they would fight. The wider anti nanny state political vibe is something to tap into and will appeal to a wider audience.

Edit: I mean this suggestion in regards to the new schedules which are already upon us. This association being talked about sounds like a great idea in the longer term :)

Edited by Rabelais
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After speaking to members of local plant communities and some of my fav authors, most have expressed that fighting this from an Ethno point of view will be detrimental and are not prepared to support it from such an angle.

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Depends on your definition of Ethno.

Ethnobotany

eth·no·bot·a·ny

[eth-noh-bot-n-ee]

noun

1. The plant lore and agricultural customs of a people.

2. Anthropology. The systematic study of such lore and customs.

This is exactly the angle which we should use.

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Ethnobotany, conservation and gardening are the three angles we should use.

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It has nothing to do with the defintion of the word but more peoples perception.

What angle to approach this from depends on what one hopes to achieve. Squashing the proposed schedule? The right to grow these plants? The right to use these plants?

Which of these plants play a significant role in Australias current and past customs? What plants on the list do you hope to remove?

Long term it would be great to achieve all those listed above, I personaly would attempt only one at a time and probly in the order listed.

Making a mockery of and having the Schedule dismissed is a very realistic goal I believe due to one species of plants listed on their. Our native Acacias. Can we use the Acacia as an example of the little thought and research our government has put into this list. Can they remove these plants with out it affecting our eco system? How will it effect our eco system? Has the government even considered any of this? Where is the research if any has been done? What are the cost of implying this and where does the money come from? How will this improve my community?

Please dont take this as negativity as I believe over time such an organization could do alot of good things.

One which I would like to see is peoples perception of the word Ethno changed.

For me my most used and valued Ethnos are the foods I eat and grow. Is it possible such an organisation tackle the GMO debate while creating a more clear understanding amongst the community exactly what Ethnos are. ( change the perception of the word )

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the AEA could then provide some basic educational information on its website. ethnobotany is the perfect term for the cause. in the case of acacias, apart from the medicinal properties that may garner negative attention they are also a food source, an artisan timber, contain properties for tanning hide etc, all of these are ethno' uses and equally important to the human-plant relationship of culture and that is why myself and many others are interested in many of these plants.

perhaps non-ethno inclined gardening folk will support the cause if it is not just some dreadlocked dude in some tie dyes demanding he be let smoke DMT, and that is exactly what it seems whitewind is trying to achieve, a serious collective of people with interests in ALL aspects of ethnobotany, who will of course market themselves as such.

edit, bad grammar

Edited by dionysus
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Nothink is right... there needs to be broader "ethnobotanical" interests at stake than simply banned plants containing illicit substances.

That would ensure the group wouldnt be labelled under to narrow a banner...

and the word ethno as politicians and policy makers see it does need to be remasked.

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It has nothing to do with the defintion of the word but more peoples perception.

 

I'm experiencing deja vu here... Greg's movement about the 'religious' use of entheogens..

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I'm experiencing deja vu here... Greg's movement about the 'religious' use of entheogens..

 

I'm not familiar with Gregs Movement, but curiosity has caught me. Is their a link you can share.

Yes I know curiosity killed the cat than greed fucked its corpse

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I think whitewind is on the right track. He has the knowledge and contacts to make an impact. It doesn't take PhD's. It does however take connections.

I think ethnobotany is an angle that is honest, but also dififcult. If you use it you must be sure to distinguish it from entheobotany or it will become increasingly difficult to get traction. Ethnobotany is only a loaded word in australia because we are such a scientifically retarded nation. In other countries the term conjurs up images of heroic explorers and the commodities they found that built whole nations. Go to Holland and the Tropen Museum will teach you that Holland was built on coca and sceletium. Go to Kew in the UK and you will learn about the amazing voyages that brought man of the european staple foods to europe. In australia we have neither embraces international ethnobotany nor the ethnobotany of our indigenous population, and that's why it is such a limited term here. But this is changing with ethnobotanical luminaries like Mabberley being head of sydney botanic garden, and more and more research going into native plants for food, medicine and fuel. Australia is also becoming more and more tolerant of ethnic diversity, so while 40 years ago we turned our noses up at wogfood like pizza, we now embrace things like quinoa and purple carrots.

It is however difficult to get any mainstream gardening societies to align themselves with your goals if there is even the slightest whiff of drugs associated with what you are doing. So if you are counting on outside help then the term ethobotany won't be the best. if you have the guts to stand on your own feet then it is perfect. if you are goign to spend a lot of time fighting laws like the model schedules then it doesn't matter what name you picked because you will be associated with drugs anyway and hence will immediately lose that support. So might as well be honest and stick with ethnobotany.

You don't need an auditor. Save yourself the money. That's really only needed when you deal with bigger funds.

Psylo, you've got whitewind all wrong and I guess I should not be surprised about your judgemental nature. He has funding, doesn't need physical premises, and has more than enough experience and aptitude. You speak about people being all talk and no action, yet other than a couple of activities that would have taken you all of an hour I don't see you making any grand contributions. As for the support you have for Greg, that is a questionable position. I have personally stated that I will not undermine his efforts, but I am also not supporting him publically. A similar choice was made by virtually ALL of the active members and groups of the wider ethnobotany community. This is not out of laziness, but out of direct disapproval of his processes, background and methods. My personal view is that he is unlikely to cause wider damage and hence I think it is an interesting and harmless experiment, but I am still not in favour of it. You will also not find prism or EGA or any other such group supporting him. Keeping in mind that many of the members are his friends it should give you some idea just how singular your position is. On the other hand I could see most of these individuals and entities getting behind whitewind's idea.

And whitewind does not have dreadlocks nor is he a typical hippie.

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