SunChaser Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) I don't think your whinging fydesvindico, its a disgrace how centrelink treat students even in Australia, the very people that are the future of our nation. So it would be far harder over ther in NZ, even just considering how expensive it is over there just live. Btw, (re job offer),I know it was probably a joke, but I love fruit picking, its what I’ve mostly been doing for a bit of cash the last few years. Go in and work like a dog, then walk away a few months later, no obligations, no BS work place politics. I love it! Lol, its just a shame it wasn’t a few months ago when I was living homeless in Northern QLD. Problem is, now I’ve just hooked up a house in rural VIC and am really looking for security and longterm employment, to finally get my life into order and settle down. Its just hit me like a bag of bricks in the head recently that I’m damn near 30 years old now and my youth has just flown away, so I am starting to get all morbid now and am really looking for that security and confidence of the future. Peace Edited November 18, 2012 by jabez 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MyPageOfManyInterests Posted November 18, 2012 Firstly, a person on welfare is hardly living any kind of privileged life. Once you have paid your bills and rent, you can barely afford to feed yourself. How can people who can’t even afford to feed themselves and usually have no formal skills or qualifications meant to easily find secure long-term employment? When they can’t even afford to get a haircut or put petrol in their car (or pay for a bus ticket) to get to job interviews, forget about even thinking about purchasing new clothes to look respectful. It’s an endless cycle, which is extremely hard to get out of once in. Then add a serious mental illness (which many people on welfare suffer from) to the equation and its damn near impossible to get out of the devastating welfare cycle. Not sure if i should comment lol all seems to be getting heated. I was born to poor hard working people. Somewhere along the line I got the silverspoon. I had a surgery in which things were overlooked (not giving details) but within 8 weeks of that surgery, i had lost everything. Silverspoon got very very tarnished. I got caught in the highlighted statement above. It was the most incredibly painful time of my life and i lived in a trapped body and mind for two years and one day I realised only i could stop this. So i did what i do best and that is 'sell ice to an eskimo'. I started a little market, i started a little bit of buying and selling on ebay. I opened a door and climbed out of the welfare state of mind. It's been over 10 years since i went thru all of that and now i have a silverspoon again. Whilst not rich by a long shot, life is comfortable and the only welfare received is family tax benefit part b - i think its called. My body is now broken and if ever the time came where we could not do as we are doing, i would not hesitate to go on a disability pension but i know for a fact i would never slip back into a welfare state of mind. All i can say is that when life has you a little broken and you are caught in the system, if all you do is crawl out, sooner or later you will begin to walk. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MyPageOfManyInterests Posted November 18, 2012 fydesvindico on the last letter the gov sent us, i am pretty sure it said that a parent is responsible till their child turns 24. I have to be honest and say i think that is disgusting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogfrog Posted November 18, 2012 Yeah i agree that its selfish to complain about recieving 'free money' if you are perfectly capable of finding employment but most people who have to rely on the government to provide them with food and shelter have suffered from serious hardship and trauma and would leap at the chance to stand on their own feet if it were possible, but for so many, its simply un-achieveable for a period of time. That may be a short time or a long time but regardless, its no picnic. And yes, there are always people who will take advantage of the system but its unreasonable to assume every single person recieving such support is simply too lazy and apathetic to get off their ass to find a job. Both my parents were on and off the unemployment and sickness benefits throughout my childhood and i remember thinking that i never wanted to go on the dole because i didnt want to be like them and i would always choose a crap job over free money.. But when i was kicked out of home at 16 with no family member willing or able to support me, and two years of school left to complete, how else was i supposed to survive? Sure it took me a couple of years to find my feet but if that assistance wasnt available i would have never found them at all and my chance to train to be a member of a respected proffession and contribute to my society would have never arisen. I can't help but feel like so many people have been kept in such a privilaged and sheltered world by their parents that they cannot actually understand what its like to belong to a low socio-economic group. I wonder how many people who found themselves unemployed and genuinely incapable of finding work, would reject the opportunity to recieve a benefit and instead choose to let their family go hungry, loose their home and spiral into a labrynth of despair, depression and hopelessness because such assistance is not available in other countries. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted November 18, 2012 if you try to get on the unemployment benefit you have a nine week stand-down period with no income at all, and now you have to pass a drug test they are trying to do something similar here: piss tests if you receive benefits. i think it's just so fucking dehumanizing, it's unbelievable that it is actually happening there and they even can encourage you to become 'sterlised' so you can't have kids and put more strain on the system. wtf? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted November 18, 2012 Sterilisation should be compulsory in developed nations. We don't need to be baby making machines when increased immigration can easily contribute to Australian population growth. What a ghastly idea! Your suggestion is paternal, totalitarian, misanthropist, juvenile, simplistic, perverse and just plain silly. it is unbelievable and I think you must just be doing a little facetious trolling (giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying this, because I really hope you don't believe that creepy orwellian garbage). to reproduce is your only verifiable reason for existing, btw. get with the program it's called evolution Why should Australians deny their own biological urges to reproduce and have a family of their own in order to play foster parent to badly traumatized kids from broken societies? Yeah, that will fix everything, can't see any way such a simple plan could go wrong really. certain genes should no doubt be kept out of the gene pool where it can be acheived in humane and ethical ways, what we need is more education, and especially of women, because there is a high correlation between women's education and reduced rates of reproduction. Eventually all humanity will grow up and create a super race of genetically enginereed gods, but until then let's all just take a chill pill and drop the mass sterilization and deportation scenarious hey? it's been done and it failed spectacularly if someone does not want to reproduce they actually are by definition not fit to pass thier genes to future generations, as it is a maladaptive survival trait (ie would lead to the extermination of the species.) Logically then, we should clearly euthanaze all such unfit specimens and replace them with better ones from somewhere else Sorry for the OT. I have been considering moving to NZ for a while, but it appears that some of my assumptions are incorrect. I thought that cost of living vs salary would work in our favour. No way, you get much more here in every respect.. it's because of this thing called the economy. I reckon the best bet is to work hard and invest here where the living is easy and the economy is strong, then buy land there and retire there at 50 lol 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sethomopod Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Sethomopod, your statements are a little more grounded in reality. But you still seem completely oblivious to the reality of the underlining situation surrounding people that (for whatever reason) have got themselves stuck in the endless cycle of the welfare system and why our welfare system constantly needs to be scrutinised and made more efficient. Firstly, a person on welfare is hardly living any kind of privileged life. Once you have paid your bills and rent, you can barely afford to feed yourself. People in this kind of situation are well in there rights, to demand they are given better opportunities to have some kind of chance to get out of the cycle of poverty and welfare, so they can have some kind of chance to hopefully obtain a better quality of life, which most other Australians are privileged with. Your argument of how the under privileged people of Australia should just be happy with what they have, because people in other countries have it worse is also flawed. Since the healthcare and the welfare system, is one of the fundamental factors that make this country so much more privileged in the first place. I am certainly not oblivious, hence my not taking your bait about cutting your dole... I believe you worded it as such that if I said yes, your dole should be cut, you would come back with mental health issues or young children... Aside from the fact that I wouldn't have said such a thing based on the information presented. Not once have I said there should be no benefits... What I have said is that is it sad to hear people COMPLAIN about receiving free money.. Simple... Again, I never said people on the dole live a privileged life, but they should certainly be grateful for the fact that they can receive the dole at all! My argument IS that our country is more privileged.. And it is that privilege, that makes me wanna puke when I hear people complain about the system that feeds them... I don't say you shouldn't receive benefits BECAUSE other countries have it worse...just that they do, and in comparison, hearing someone complain about how difficult it is to get free money, is like hearing a morbidly obese person complain that the seats in planes a too small... I say again, I am highlighting first world problems... I agree with what allot of people are saying here... I do feel privileged to live in a country/s where things like the benefit are available to myself and others. I was really just having a whinge and feeling hard done by. all in all, yes I do have it sweet... Not that my opinion means much, but that's all I needed to hear.... That's the difference... Acknowledging we are VERY lucky.. I don't think your whinging fydesvindico, its a disgrace how centrelink treat students even in Australia, the very people that are the future of our nation. So it would be far harder over ther in NZ, even just considering how expensive it is over there just live. Btw, (re job offer),I know it was probably a joke, but I love fruit picking, its what I’ve mostly been doing for a bit of cash the last few years. Go in and work like a dog, then walk away a few months later, no obligations, no BS work place politics. I love it! Next year then if you need a bit of work at the time. Yeah i agree that its selfish to complain about recieving 'free money' I wonder how many people who found themselves unemployed and genuinely incapable of finding work, would reject the opportunity to recieve a benefit and instead choose to let their family go hungry, loose their home and spiral into a labrynth of despair, depression and hopelessness because such assistance is not available in other countries. Are we on the same page? I'm not sure, as what I read from that, is that you are under the impression that I believe people should turn down benefits because people in other countries don't get them...like some sort of moralistic self sacrifice? I'm sorry, I must have worded something incorrectly, because I have no idea what you are talking about... Nobody should turn down benefits, just be grateful you live in a country where you can receive any type of benefit at all... Edited November 18, 2012 by sethomopod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sethomopod Posted November 18, 2012 I would like to reiterate to all the above posters, that I mean no offence... Let's not let yet another thread go awry... Fydesvindico, what's your plans now? Back to oz? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Jabez i could give u work until feb if ur after some EASY labouring work. Pretty cool open minded crew, good money as well :)/>/> I say that with all sincerity. Everytime I step of the plane from SEA, I Am god smacked how goddamn easy we Aussies have it. We won the lottery by being born here. Personally I would work a job scrubbing toilet bowls before I would go on a benefit. It was the way I was raised. Benefits are there to support the less fortunate, to bring about an Equality of opportunity. It's abused shockingly by the Australian population. I worked for clink for a few years so got the skinny on how much it's ripped first hand. We are SOOOO lucky we have a welfare system. Edited November 18, 2012 by incognito 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nothinghead Posted November 18, 2012 I was born to poor hard working people. Somewhere along the line I got the silverspoon. I had a surgery in which things were overlooked (not giving details) but within 8 weeks of that surgery, i had lost everything. Silverspoon got very very tarnished. I got caught in the highlighted statement above. ... My body is now broken and if ever the time came where we could not do as we are doing, i would not hesitate to go on a disability pension but i know for a fact i would never slip back into a welfare state of mind. All i can say is that when life has you a little broken and you are caught in the system, if all you do is crawl out, sooner or later you will begin to walk. hey, thanks for the interesting post on your experience with this. i think there's something to the connection between being brought up with a strong work ethic, having had the possibility to fulfil it diminished by your circumstances, and then getting back on your feet again in terms of being able to do work and being able to look after yourself. cycles of economic desperation or other disadvantages that lead to people not being able to take care of themselves seem to occur not only within one person's lifetime, but also between generations. in other words, it is often learned behaviour. it seems like it is much easier to get back on your feet if you're used to looking after yourself from a young age (as most people from a strong working class background will be), but pretty difficult if you're mired in generations of dole cheques and desperation. I also think you're onto something important about the "welfare state of mind", meaning that accepting funds from the state is not merely a matter of needing that money to get by, but can also be a symptom of other effects of state capitalism (feeling debilitated, disenfranchised, being unable to work, etc) that pervade all the aspects of your life. Jabez has provided some good examples. Having lived in Australia as well as a former socialist state (gone right wing now, unfortunately) I can say, at least anecdotally, that Australia is far from perfect but a great place to live, especially for the majority (which is fairly wide there). Sure, some people resist the welfare system (criticise the government but take their money, as Psylo so indelicately put it) or bludge off it, but look at first world nations that don't have social welfare infrastructure in place. Those who can't or don't want to work either suffer, or prop up the system by providing some demand in the lucrative area of crime control. The problem doesn't disappear. People who are unable to work don't just start working because the pressure is on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fydesvindico Posted November 19, 2012 It's all very interesting to hear what people have to say! I'm quite happy to have started this thread as it's great to hear what everyone else's points of views are... Thank you all! I would like to reiterate to all the above posters, that I mean no offence... Let's not let yet another thread go awry... Fydesvindico, what's your plans now? Back to oz? Yep back to Aus! We've put everything in perspective and it looks like it's our best option for the time being... My partner and I have managed to score some jobs in the kiwi fruit orchards close to where I have family we can stay with (here in NZ).. just bud thinning and cane ripping, so some easy dollars for a few weeks to help us get back to Aus. We've decided to give melbourne a go. We've only ever visited, and have no family or friends down there... But from what we know of it, it seems like a good place to start fresh... once again. We're both country kids, having lived in SEQ/NNSW hinterland most of our lives it's a bit of a change for us.. even having lived over here (NZ) we've been mostly rural. I've had years of call centre experience though, and have usually had to travel 50-60 mins to get to work where I used to live, so hopefully living in the city should prove fruitful. From experience, we've decided it's in our best interest to "trial" new things first.. so we've givin melbourne a 1 year trial to see if it's for us, otherwise we'll give something else a go.. but it's looking good at the moment.. so fingers crossed! We've also decided that Australia feels more like our "home"... so it will be nice to return once again! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etherealdrifter Posted November 19, 2012 if you haven't lived in melbz and espech as a student.........you should have a blast. being on the dole, working odd jobs, connecting with weirdos and heaps of live gig action should see you through. plus, melb meets are sometimes sluggish but other times salty with a fruity after-finish. "how dare they attack me for speaking my mind whilst living in a democratic state!" 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fydesvindico Posted November 19, 2012 if you haven't lived in melbz and espech as a student.........you should have a blast. being on the dole, working odd jobs, connecting with weirdos and heaps of live gig action should see you through. plus, melb meets are sometimes sluggish but other times salty with a fruity after-finish. "how dare they attack me for speaking my mind whilst living in a democratic state!" cheers etherealdrifter! good to know I'm getting exciteeeddddd! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
