how old is too old?

[Francois le Danque]

so like, i just made myself some good old fashioned jaffles. cheese and baked beans, mm mm . nothing better for the er, mun-cheez. BUT

the margarine had mould in it !. so i scooped out all the visible bits and tried to scrape off the top layer. this wasn't helped by my housemate's insistence on digging and stabbing at the stuff instead of just scraping off the top layer like a normal person . not to mention the fact that it was his fault it was mouldy, because he left crumbs in there~! anyway

i get all my bread buttered, both sides. open up the cheese and fuck: it too is mouldy! this time it's covered on all sides. i scoured the fridge but there was no more cheese to be had. and the supermarket just closed! no help there, mister cole.

so with the cheese i cut off all the sides, twice, leaving me with about 10% of the original starting mass (no, i didn;t weigh it... ). because like, jaffles aint jaffles without cheese. plus i was super dooper hungry, y'know?

fast forward 20 minutes and my jaffles are all gone and i have a gritty feeling in my mouth. am i going to die?? or just maybe a bit of this>

TLDR: is it okay to cut the mould off food and eat the food?? cheese and margarine

[chilli]

I would generally try to avoid eating mold, but you'll almost certainly be fine.

[CβL]

As far as I know, cheese can never go rotten; it just changes into a new type of cheese.

[Sallubrious]

There's no way I would have eaten that shit.

You never really know the extent of a mould problem, what you can see is just the tip of the iceberg, it could be riddled with mycelium.

For high fat products though mould grows mainly on the surface as the fat is not the best culture medium and has an inhibiting effect on mould, bacteria is more of a problem with fats.

[Amazonian]

Funny story frank,lol .

so with the cheese i cut off all the sides,

 

I have done this ^. I am sure many have.

In a book by Helda Clarke, (The Cure For All Cancers) she says you really should stay clear of moulds...even the ones growing on the grout between the tiles in your bathroom. But the way i look at it...surely not all moulds are bad.. look at penicillin for example .

Frank?.... Frank...? frank... you still with us ?

[Auxin]

Margarine mold!

Didnt you know, margarine mold likes fat (obviously) and mammary tissue has lots of fat, but molds need air to sporulate, so the result is a nasty case of nipple fungus.

...so if you get yellow stains on your shirt that smell of cheese, thats why.

Its a good thing he didnt eat cheese mold, because cheese mold loves protein and guys have lots of protein in their balls, and

oh shit He ate cheese mold too!

[qualia]

^^

sound reasoning

[Anodyne]

lol, CβL is right - if you saw what some aged cheeses look like before they clean them up for the supermarket, you would either never eat cheese again, or stop worrying about a bit of mould. If the cheese tastes fine, it probably is -surface moulds don't tend to penetrate very far into the block because there's not enough oxygen for them to grow. And as you said, the margarine mould is likely actually bread mould, so its probably fine too.

The real worry with mouldy stuff isn't necessarily the mould (although there are some nasty ones, I'll get to that), but that the food around the mould (or under it, or whatever) will be rotten. I try to avoid mouldy fruits and veges, because by the time you see a patch of furry mould on the surface, the fungus has already sent mycelium through the fruit, starting to break it down. And never eat mouldy peanuts or chillies - a mould that commonly grows on them produces aflatoxins, which are scary and toxic - read the wikipedia article about them if you're not terrified yet.

But I can't fault Auxin's reasoning either...

[SunChaser]

I used to be full on paranoid about eating food that wasn’t fresh. I remember if my ex left the milk out of the fridge for more than 10 minutes I’d decide it was ruined and chuck it in the bin.

But now, after spending a lot of time out bush, these things really don’t worry me all that much anymore. Cutting off the mould from cheese is fine imo. I just go by the smell test now, as long as it doesn’t smell bad and you don’t actually eat mould, then its fine.

I think its people being so paranoid about germs and slightly old food that makes us get so sick these days. Ya gotta give your immune system a work out every once in a while, it keeps it nice and strong.

[Wameron36]

That's the way I've always approached similar situations and I'm yet to run into any trouble, you should be fine.

It can be a great way of scoring free food too! It's great when housemates go to throw something out because of a bit of mould if you're ok with just cutting it off.

[Francois le Danque]

wow what a wonderful audience

yeah i am fine. my stomach hurt a bit but that was because i got hungry again. i will let y'all know if i develop nipple and testicle moulds.

[Yawning Man]

I've eaten heaps of shit that looked dodgy and the most i got was an interesting flavour. I reckon mold makes some things taste better. If ya ate dirt as a kid your immune system should be good, just give it the occasional booster shot (moldy bread under the couch, rotten apple) and you're sweet.

[Auxin]

Theres logic in that, the western diet is too sterile. Beneficial and harmless microbes are the immune systems training ground (hard science has proven that) and anyway, not all molds are bad. Soy sauce is essentially liquid mold, certain molds are even eaten as medicines.

When man was too primitive to preserve food we were hungry and ate rotten and fermented shit alot, when we learned to preserve food we used bacteria to help with that- even fermenting meats, we evolved for half a million years eating live microbes, its only been since the 40's or so that we've rapidly sterilized our diets. And we're only beginning to comprehend the results.

It was funny the first time I got food poisoning after I started eating live bacterial cultures (it was from someones barbeque, damn other-people-food). For the first time the food poisoning pathogen didnt make it into my gut, I could feel it ramming the gates at my duodenum and my intestines were just like "HA, Bitches! This is a kimchee sauerkraut gut!" After a few hours the kimchee critters won, I wonder if they enjoyed their snack of salmonella.

[qualia]

speaking of fermented foods, did you know that the salt in miso is not the same as table salt? it's true, same with soy sauce, which is great cos i fuckin love miso. so instead of salting your food with table salt why not try miso or soy sauce, it might just save your life!*

*may not actually save your life

[quarterflesh]

Im just going to throw this in here, but i swear that you cannot smell off long life milk, you only find out after you drink it.

[chilli]

I think its people being so paranoid about germs and slightly old food that makes us get so sick these days. Ya gotta give your immune system a work out every once in a while, it keeps it nice and strong.

 

Actually, the opposite is true. It is the modern awareness of germs and hygeine that has resulted in people getting a lot less sick than they used to.

[dionysus]

^ i think both those statements can be true, depending on the pathogen. certainly vaccination and hygeine has gone a long way to eradicate some of the worse plagues, but various 'common colds' may affect us worse due to our sterility, at least jabez isn't the first person i have heard suggest this.

[Amazonian]

The only mould I would purposely eat would be a smidgen of blue vein cheese , and a tad of ergot (

[Francois le Danque]

blue vein cheese is poison. do you eat rotten fruit too?? bler. brie for me. im gunna have some right now.

as for the clean/dirty debate, i definitely agree with dionysus. i think sterility causes lack of immunity, but filth is still filth. anyone remember typhoid mary?

[SunChaser]

Actually, the opposite is true. It is the modern awareness of germs and hygeine that has resulted in people getting a lot less sick than they used to.

 

Oh really chilli, do you have any link that supports that claim? Obviously I'm refering to post world war 2 since we have all had access to modern sewage systems and clean water.

Here’s a link to a news story of a study that supports my claim of a less sterile enviroment being good for your immune system, which I found in less than 10 seconds. There’s hundreds more though.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=116852&page=1

Even more remarkable, children who had two or more dogs or cats had an even greater reduction, up to 77 percent, in risk of allergies. And not only were they less likely to develop allergies to cats and dogs, but also to dust mites, short ragweed and blue grass.

Researchers suggest this protective effect may be the result of early exposure to lots of bacteria that are carried by dogs and cats. Exposing young children to these bacteria helps "exercise" their immune systems early in life so that they're better able to resist allergic diseases later.

Previous research showed that children raised on farms and exposed to animals were less likely to have allergies as well.

 

[chilli]

Oh really chilli, do you have any link that supports that claim? Obviously I'm refering to post world war 2 since we have all had access to modern sewage systems and clean water.

 

but the sewage and clean water are a result of learning about germs and hygiene, so it would be silly to not compare before and after. That is central to point I am making, it is not like it is controversial whether knowledge of germs and hygiene has drastically reduced the occurrence and severity of all kinds of illness. Here are some figures for Australia:

Over the last century, Australia's health indicators have shown huge improvements:

• Death rates from infectious disease have fallen 96%

   

• Death rates from respiratory disease have fallen 80%

   

• Death rates for children 0-4 have fallen 95%

   

• Life expectancy has increased by over 25 years for women, and nearly 24 years for men.

   

 

(Source 1)

Sadly, the statistics do not show similar improvement among Indigenous Australians, whose life expectancy is similar to that of Australians a century ago.

Many developing nations also have much lower life expectancies and higher death rates than in Australia today. Table 1 shows the stark difference in life expectancy and mortality rates between Australia and the African Region (as defined by the World Health Organisation) in 2007.

Table 1: Key population health indicators for Australia and WHO African region in 2007. Mortality rates are expressed per 1000 live births.(Source 2)

In the African region it is infectious diseases that account for the vast majority - 80% in 2004 - of “years of life lost” (which factors in the age at which deaths occur). Prevalent infectious diseases in Africa include tuberculosis, cholera, measles, leprosy, meningitis, whooping cough and HIV/AIDS.

In Australia, infectious disease deaths have decreased dramatically over the last century. In 2000 infectious disease caused only 18 deaths/100,000 population, compared with 513 deaths/100,000 in 1907. Deaths from respiratory diseases including flu and pneumonia have also declined significantly over the same timeframe.

Figure 1: Causes of death in Australia in 1907 and 2000. (Source 3)

Figures 2 and 3 confirm this decline of infectious and respiratory disease deaths for children 0-4 years old and across all ages, respectively.

Figure 2: Trends in selected causes of death for children 0-4 in Australia over the last century. (Ref 3)

Figure 3: Trends in selected causes of death for all persons in Australia over the last century. (Ref 3)

Additional graphs suggesting that vaccination alone cannot be responsible for this decline in Australian mortality can be viewed at www.whale.to/vaccine/graphs2. A similar picture for overseas is illustrated by the graphs at www.whale.to/a/graphs, and from pages 20 to 26 of “Against Disease: The Impact of Hygiene and Cleanliness on Health”. (Ref 4)

Source 1: AIHW 2005 “Mortality over the twentieth century in Australia: Trends and patterns in major causes of death. Mortality Surveillance Series no. 4

Source 2: World Health Statistics, WHO 2009

Source 3: Figure 1 compiled using figures from AIHW 2005 “Mortality over the twentieth century in Australia: Trends and patterns in major causes of death. Mortality Surveillance Series no. 4. Canberra: AIHW; Figures 2 and 3 compiled from AIHW General Record of Incidence of Mortality (GRIM) Statistics data (www.aihw.gov.au)

Source 4: Aiello, A. E., Larson, E. L., Sedlak, R. 2007, "Against Disease: The Impact of Hygiene and Cleanliness on Health", The Soap and Detergent Association, www.againstdisease.com

 

Source: http://www.hygieneforhealth.org.au/graphs_and_statistics.php

Here’s a link to a news story of a study that supports my claim of a less sterile enviroment being good for your immune system, which I found in less than 10 seconds. There’s hundreds more though.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=116852&page=1

 

well I didn't really mean to deny that, I mean I have always assumed that was true so I don't really need convincing. Doesn't really alter the fact that an awareness of germs and hygiene has made a lot of people a lot less sick in the last century, as the figures above show.

Edited November 2, 2012 by chilli

[Francois le Danque]

lol jabez; so cute that having pets is an evolutionary advantage. i knew those little critters were good for something!

and startling statistics, chilli. i am especially intrigued by the fact that the cancer rate showed a significant-looking increase. i wonder which ones..

[chilli]

Yes that is very interesting, I didn't even notice that.. I wonder why?

[Francois le Danque]

smoking probably went up in that time, i should think it only became really popular after the great war.

[SunChaser]

lol, yeah frank cute. But actually I think its more being exposed to the bacteria that animal’s carry that helps build the immune system rather than the actual pets.

Anyway, the statistics provided don’t surprise me at all. Actually I thought it was common knowledge that our death rates have improved significantly in the past century. Due to access to more nutritious foods, basic health care, clean water, more effective sewage systems and so on. I also never said anything about death rates & basic hygiene, that’s just putting words into my mouth.

What I said is people seem to be getting sicker from being ‘paranoid’ about germs. Paranoid, as in mothers that carry around anti-bacterial soap in their pocket to clean their kids with if they happen play in the dirt. Or parents that feed their kids antibiotics like there lollies every time the sneeze, I knew kids like that at school and they were constantly sick.

What about all those people that can’t go near an animal without falling apart from allergies, or even go outside in spring because of hay fever. Then you’ve got all those food allergies, like these people that will die if a crumb of nut goes near there mouth. It can't have always been like that, its getting to the point where people won't be able to leave there completely sterile houses, without getting allergies

Imo, All these allergies and shit has to have something to do with us going from basic common sense to out right paranoia and weakening our immune systems. That’s just my opinion.