Shamanistic Posted October 10, 2012 Seen this today and thought it was really interesting. For a neuroscientist to be saying things like this it must have really shaken his world view. A top neurosurgeon claims to have ‘Proof of heaven’ after making a full recovery from a seven day coma that saw his neocortex inactivated. Dr Eben Alexander, who teaches neuroscience at Harvard University among others, fell seriously ill after contracting a rare form of bacterial meningitis in 2008. Within hours of developing a severe headache, Dr Alexander’s entire cortex—the section of the brain that controls thought and emotion —had shut down. Though his chances of survival were low, he awoke from the coma seven days later and began describing an ‘other worldly experience’. "I was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky," he wrote in an article for Newsweek. He also goes on to describe "Flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamer-like lines behind them." While Dr Alexander admits his scientific expertise has made him skeptical of afterlife experiences, he claims the loss of function to his cortex makes his experiences unique. "I’m not the first person to have discovered evidence that consciousness exists beyond the body," he said. "I know full well how extraordinary, how frankly unbelievable, all this sounds." "But as far as I know, no one before me has ever traveled to this dimension (a) while their cortex was completely shut down, and ( while their body was under minute medical observation, as mine was for the full seven days of my coma." Dr Alexander admits many still struggle to accept his story, particularly his medical colleagues. His forthcoming book, "Proof of Heaven, A Neurosurgeon journey into the Afterlife" that aims to dispel the skepticism will be published by Simon & Schuster later this month. "I’m still a doctor, and still a man of science every bit as much as I was before I had my experience,” he said. “But on a deep level I’m very different from the person I was before, because I’ve caught a glimpse of this emerging picture of reality." Source: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/15068392/top-neurosurgeon-spent-six-days-in-heaven-during-a-coma/ 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goneski Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Well shit. I suppose I better convert. I'm not sure though how you make the leap from "loss of function to his cortex" to "consciousness exists beyond the body" and finally to imagery of heaven -- big, white fluffy clouds, angels playing harps or whatever else he saw. I'm not claiming to know much, but neuroscience is still a very young field. Why would you quickly jump to the conclusion that you had experienced the afterlife? Keeping an open mind goes both ways.. Edited October 10, 2012 by SYNeR 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chnt Posted October 10, 2012 that isn't proof at all... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted October 10, 2012 After having dreams where I have experienced a whole other life overnight, and psychedelic trips where time has stretched to infinity, it could well be that all of his experience was actually undergone in the few instants between full consciousness and coma. There is no reason to assume that his experience occurred while his brain was non-functioning. He may be a neurosurgeon, but his experience with psychedelics and expanded consciousness is clearly quite limited. It's a great story, though. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goneski Posted October 10, 2012 This is quite a good interview with the doctor... http://www.skeptiko.com/154-neurosurgeon-dr-eben-alexander-near-death-experience/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goneski Posted October 10, 2012 I thought experience of another life (often as another person) was quite common with Salvia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shamanistic Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Yeah you'd think a neuroscientist would have a fairly rigorous definition of proof, apparently not. Also I dunno about you guys but floating around in pink clouds for all eternity isn't really my idea of heaven. What I found most amusing was his descriptions sound so cliche, his subconscious must be pretty boring . He is apparently a professor at Harvard so I wonder how this will effect his research into neuroscience and it's role in consciousness. Even if he's conclusions that it was when his brain wasn't functioning aren't right at least his ideas of consciousness will be somewhat different after the experience and consciousness is I think the least explored thing in this whole universe but it is the whole universe. On a side note it must have been a pretty slow news day, as much as I found this article really interesting I'd hardly call it breaking news.. Edited October 10, 2012 by Shamanistic 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coin Posted October 10, 2012 Reminds me of the account of Jill Bolte Taylor Jill Bolte Taylor got a research opportunity few brain scientists would wish for: She had a massive stroke, and watched as her brain functions -- motion, speech, self-awareness -- shut down one by one. An astonishing story.Brain researcher Jill Bolte Taylor studied her own stroke as it happened -- and has become a powerful voice for brain recovery. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goneski Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) NDEs aren't something I've looked at much, but I'd love to read some cross-cultural experiences / studies just to see how much environment and Upbringing play a part.. Edited October 10, 2012 by SYNeR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shamanistic Posted October 10, 2012 Just reading that interview that you posted Syner and it seems whitewinds suspicion of him having no experience with psychedelics is true: I guess one could always argue, “Well, your brain was probably just barely able to ignite real consciousness and then it would flip back into a very diseased state,” which doesn’t make any sense to me. Especially because that hyper-real state is so indescribable and so crisp. It’s totally unlike any drug experience. A lot of people have come up to me and said, “Oh that sounds like a DMT experience, ”or“ That sounds like ketamine.” Not at all. That is not even in the right ballpark.Those things do not explain the kind of clarity, the rich interactivity, the layer upon layer of understanding and of lessons taught by deceased loved ones and spiritual beings. Of course, they’re all deceased loved ones. I’ve kind of wondered where it is that these people are coming from. They say, “The brain was very sick but it was very selective and made sure it only remembered deceased loved ones.” They’re just not hearing something. Would like to see what he thought of the above statement having tried ayahuasca or mushrooms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted October 10, 2012 it would be good to have a book that took a look at these anecedotal reports and took a look at what what was going on in the brain of these people. He should have rigged up a machine for himself, his hospital buddies wouldve done it for him. But its quite a leap from being cortex-dead to experiencing after-lives and saying heaven exisists. Not very scientfic, and will just likely go down the garbage-chute of anecedotal reports from scientists..not science, throw it in the bin, it's just a trip report. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 11, 2012 Not sure why being a neuroscientist is supposed to make him any more credible at this? There are also plenty of neuroscientists who suffer fromt he mass delusion of religion, but that doesn't make the gods of those religions any more likely. assumign he's never had dmt how could he assume his stay in heaven was 6 days? I can do 6 days of experiences [or more] in just under 2 minutes while on DMT. Even while dreaming it is impossible to discern how much time you've just spent in the dream, with days or weeks of dream activity being mere seconds of actual dream time. What this guy perceived as 6 days in heaven was probably just the last few seconds of his coma before he woke up. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coin Posted October 11, 2012 I think the claims are meant to sound surprising to the reader - not credible. Isn't his unique point that he could experience all of this with no apparent cortical activity? It was probably while he (it) was coming back online but the distorted sense of time has put him on the wrong track Now he has a book deal Just because the article says he believes he has proof of heaven, I don't think it necessarily means he believes it's an actual alternate "reality" ? Anyway - it's Yahoo news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BentoSpawn Posted October 11, 2012 Omg this is just the evidence i needed to convert me from athieism.... Or not... I wonder if he was religious before his experience? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Distracted Posted October 11, 2012 proof of heaven cause they had a mystical experience... just like a policeman's hunch can be considered proof that someone is guilty 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BentoSpawn Posted October 11, 2012 I just finished reading the whole interview (epic waste of time) and the closest thing he did to try to explain it scientifically was dropping the words "quantum physics"... So it turns out he is not just a neuro-surgeon he is also a quantum physicist... What a guy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted October 12, 2012 god how i hate the whole quantumflapdoodle arguments. Whenever I see the words "quantum" and "consciousness" anywhere near together, I get a sick feeling in my stomach. Even the best of them, like Roger Penrose and Gordon Globus have ended up in this territory, a "landscape of ignorance". Interestingly, however, is that in my own personal experience of alien messages received under psylacetin, I am being forced to consider some sort of frequency/entanglement interaction with 5HT2a/NMDA receptors. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goneski Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Here's a terrific rebuttal of the whole situation by Sam Harris: http://www.samharris...-must-be-heaven Sam Harris is 1) a neuroscientist 2) has experience with psychedelics 3) knows better Edited October 12, 2012 by SYNeR 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BentoSpawn Posted October 12, 2012 Here's a terrific rebuttal of the whole situation by Sam Harris: http://www.samharris...-must-be-heaven Sam Harris is 1) a neuroscientist 2) has experience with psychedelics 3) knows better 4) is right Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
