Mid Section Cut Rooting

[Paisano]

Hi everyone.

Ive been given advice to leave mid section cuttings in a box on newspaper for the winter months while applying rooting hormone on the half of the cutting that rests on the newspaper. That this will result in roots growing from many different points on the "log" cutting. Then when spring rolls around cut the "log" into sections (5) making sure each cut section has its own roots and let these newly cut sections heal and plant them in dry medium. Wait about 6 weeks and start watering a likkle bit. So if propagated in this manner you should get at least 5 new plants for every log you root this way.....

Does anyone have experience doing this? It sounds like a good propagation method but ive never seen this done. Most people just root the log section standing vertical or lay it down in soil horizontal and get a pup or maybe two.

Any advice on rooting mid section cuts would be appreciated. How do you do it. Whats your success rate? Do you like the method i described above? What risks if any does this method pose?

Thanks .......

Edited October 2, 2012 by Paisano

[qualia]

yeah laying logs flat is fairly common i think, i've never done it myself.

not sure if applying rooting hormone out of the ground will be effective, but i don't think it'll hurt.

but you should leave it in the shed over winter irregardless, unless you have dry winters, but out in the rain over winter it might rot. i like to keep cuts dry until they shoot roots.

[Jack]

No rooting hormone required I just leave them on the shelf and forget about them then come spring there are roots.

[Paisano]

Hi qualia

I been vibing on some of your tracks of the day!

oh yea the cutting will be dry according to this advice it is supposed to shoot out roots in the box....under the bed....but thats not really what i am asking.... I am more interested about the cutting the log into 5 sections after it has roots. Each of the 5 sections with roots..I think that is the point of using root hormone ...so that the log puts down rooots all along the underside and not in just one spot. In this way it will be able to be cut into 5 sections all with their own roots then re-dry the fresh cut sections......do you know if that works to get five plants from the one foot long log? It sounds like a winner but i have not read or heard of anyone doing this xcept the person who advised....im looking for a second opinion.

Best,

Paisano.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Paisano

[Paisano]

No rooting hormone required I just leave them on the shelf and forget about them then come spring there are roots.

 

Hi Jack, do your mid sections grow roots all up and down the underside without hormone or do you just get one patch of roots......Read above and it explains what im trying to get first hand report of.

best,

Paisano

[Mr. Bowser]

[edit: wrong thread]

Edited October 2, 2012 by Mr. Bowser

[GoOnThen]

There are a few thing that I have noticed with planting logs.

The smaller the cutting the slower and smaller the pups grow ( this seems true for logs and normal planting ).

The log may pup more but the growing mass will still be around the same as normal planted cutting. ( a number of small pups compered to one big pup )

Not all logs put out more than one pup in the first year.

I still plant all good sized cuttings vertically and a mid cut will normally produce two to four pups in the first season. Most of the smaller / skinny pach pieces go in as logs as I am propagating for grafting stock the smaller pups are fine for what I want them for.

Cheers

Got

[Evil Genius]

I root everything in birdsand. Horizontally, vertically, doesnt really matter with most San Pedros. The additives in birdsand help preventing infections so i rarely encountered any problems doing this. But i lost quite a lot cacti being wrapped in newspapers so would be hesistant to do it. They will certainly take it in most cases but if theres an infection starting somewhere, you dont see it till its too late and the lack of oxygen makes it even worse.

[qualia]

why don't you put rooting hormone on one half and leave the other half blank? that way you should at least see if it has a localised effect on rooting. and then just cut in half anyway the non hormoned part should root just fine although a little longer.

[bogfrog]

My experiences with rooting mid sections have proved that it can take alot longer to throw roots through the thick skin of the side of the cactus (sometimes over a year) rather than the healed cut at the bottom.

If you have a few logs and time to experiment you could try peeling the skin off on few spots where you would like roots to grow, let it heal before planting and i expect you'd have plenty of roots in no time.

[Jack]

Imo Tricho's have no need for roofing hormone they put out roots in search of water.

But to answer your question in my experience they form most of the way up, however with how you plan on propogating your cutting I'm afraid oi concur with goonthen re small cutting size = and slow growth.

I don't do anything special just put then in a pot and they grow. Sometime things get left in the shed neglected and when I come back to them they have roots always on the side facing Down.

[Jack]

I am sure the best tip is neglect! I think checking regularly disrupts the process

[qualia]

^^

second,

1: Plant cuts

2: ?

3: Profit

[Paisano]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the tips. No one however addressed cutting the log into sections AFTER it has roots.... I want 5 sections (each with roots allready) on the foot long section. The goal is to get that log to put roots down all over so i can get five seperate sections with roots.... i dont really care if each section put out slow small growth the first year.... id rather get five separate small plants than one with a couple large pups. No one has tried this???

[qualia]

just try it and see. if it fails then at the end of winter you have a cut to plant as usual. if it works then you have a new awesome method of rooting/planting cuts. be a pioneer, take a chance.

[Paisano]

Hi Qualia

Yes, take a chance, i would love to hear a first hand report before hand but your right i should end up with at least one plant-able cutting no matter. a pioneer....LOL I dont know about all that but yea it would a good propagation method to multiply the number of plants.

Best,

Paisano

[GoOnThen]

If you want to cut it into five pieces then I would suggest you cut it into the five pieces and root them individually. This will give each piece a chance to root near the bottom cut and a chance to pup from the top cut of each piece.

I think the longer you wait to cut it the longer you will wait for growth of roots and pups.

I have also found that when you plant a cutting as a log most of the time it will root from the true bottom first and pup from close to the top cut. I have had a 6 foot cutting standing upside down in my shed for 18 months ( yes I know ) In the time that it was in my shed it produced 7 normal foot long pups and a bunch of (8) 6 to 8 inch pups all were from the end sitting on the floor ( the true top ) it also produced root buds early on in its stored life from its true bottom only.

I was also going to suggest that you can cut it up into smaller pieces if you really wanted to but I just looked at you photo again and your cutting is looking a bit dehydrated so i wouldn’t cut it up to small but this also means you will need to get it rooted sooner than later.

These days I am a strong believer in what Jack said "I am sure the best tip is neglect! I think checking regularly disrupts the process" . Plant them in good free draining mix and wait for growth when they plump up they have got roots and the best rooting trigger is warmth.

Cheers

Got

[Paisano]

Hi GOT,

the best advice is neglect! its in its box laying on top of newspaper. It will stay here until March.

Best,

Todd

Edited October 3, 2012 by Paisano

[trucha]

Neglect is great. Its probably the single best piece of advice for rooting trich cuttings.

There is no reason a section can't root down its length lying on its side.

And there is no reason those adventitious roots can't form the points for real rooting of cuttings to occur. Don't trust any cut surfaces for some time though. Presence of roots won't decrease the risks for rot if watering is started too early.

Even if planting on their side I tend to wait until I can see roots or root nubs from or adjacent to my cut surfaces before planting and don't trust the presence of adventitious roots alone for that reason. I've forgotten about stout cuttings for up to several years and had them forgive me once planted.

Lots of growers create mother plants for production by laying a cutting on its side and letting it root down the length. Usually growth occurs at several points or at least from both ends. This is often done on a berm so the section can grow at a slope and not catch standing water.

Longer sections are going to show more vigor than a shorter section - at least up to a point.

It would probably be more productive to wait and get more length for creating five sections rooted on their sides than to cut a section into too short of pieces. Even tiny pieces can be rooted, survive and go on to be big plants but the vigor is typically diminished.

Taking one of those logs and creating a mother that put out new growth to form a perennial source of new cuttings that get removed every year is a common way of seriously cranking out some volume in horticulture. I'd suggest that in five years you would end up with more plants and biomass from using a single log planted on its side as a mother than dividing the log itself into several plants.

The mothers for all of the Juuls Giant sold by Cactus Gems were from shed branches up to 6 or 8 feet long that this had been done with.

The advice to "try it" is the best one. The only real way to learn how and why things work is to do them and deliberately explore.

I'd suggest deliberately doing things both "right" and "wrong" in order to learn why other people do things the way they do. Sometimes the outcomes can be surprising. Sometimes anybody be wrong and sometimes your local situation may be very different than theirs.

People learn a lot more from being willing to experiment, make mistakes and even fail, than they do from doing things the way anyone else told them.

Edited October 5, 2012 by trucha

[zelly]

Great points trucha.

I myself had a hard time understanding a mid cut planted upside down would root & pup until I tried it myself.