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whitewind

Keep It Legal !

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Our society has an obsession with the legal drug, alcohol. I think it's about time we highlighted just how dangerous this fully legal psycho-active drug can be. In my opinion, the effects are far worse than most other drugs. In fact, I wanted to call this thread "You would never see a stoner do that!"

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Daily Heil (UK)

Edited by whitewind
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sure, but are you comparing someone whos just drank $300 at the pub with someone who's sataying at home for a few tokes, or someone who's just eaten a whole batch of cookies and calls the ambulance cos they've gone blind? apples and apples, not apples and tangerines.

In my opinion, the effects are far worse than most other drugs

tell me whats wrong with a few beers/wines *for dinner?

edit: *with dinner :wink:

Edited by qualia
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I wish we could have a cultural photographic experiment where we legalise the marijuana for a few weeks, and then compare pictures of the drunkies vs the stoners (and of course all the grey area inbetween)

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^^^ 1000 posts congrtulations niggles!

Qualia, it's tongue in cheek. I thought those pictures were really funny. After a few drinks, of course. I like Niggles idea, like the videos comparing spider webs on different drugs we could see the patterns of trash produced by different drug users, and which positions they lay in while prone.

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That experiment already happened in holland niggles. if you leave the tourist areas and hang out with the locals you see the difference between the boozers and the stoners. In many instances it is the boozers who provide the 'entertainment' for the stoners ;)

The cops there also prefer the stoners as stoners are usually just confused and funny while boozers are loud, obnoxious and aggressive.

Having pot readily available seems to reduce alcohol consumption quite dramatically even in the drinkers. There is only so much beer you can drink when stoned before things become uncomfortable.

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Heh! I have actually already completed the experiement in amsterdam - theres very dull photos of red eyed boys sitting in a smoke filled corner, sometimes we smile and eat things.

Im sure I could dig them out of the memory box if anyone really wants to see.

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That experiment already happened in holland niggles. if you leave the tourist areas and hang out with the locals you see the difference between the boozers and the stoners. In many instances it is the boozers who provide the 'entertainment' for the stoners ;)

The cops there also prefer the stoners as stoners are usually just confused and funny while boozers are loud, obnoxious and aggressive.

Having pot readily available seems to reduce alcohol consumption quite dramatically even in the drinkers. There is only so much beer you can drink when stoned before things become uncomfortable.

 

Sweet. I just booked my flights to the cup. I'll let you know my observations.

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alcohol is a good solvent and as that I use it,

for making elixirs from wild fruits, entheogenic, aromatic and medicinal plant materials and to conserve many things.

its also a good solvent for nerve cells *lol*

but to be serious, its always a question of the dose and more and more people in our society have the need to switch out of the hard reality with Valium, alcohol and other legal drugs and there is no more cultural frame for this anymore, not to talk about rituals. Its all about getting more drunk / dropped out than the other.

Edited by mindperformer
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When I was young, the only use I knew of alcohol was ritualistic; turning wine into the blood of christ. When I hit teenage the rituals changed somewhat, regular weekend visit to the local pub to get blotto. With religious fervour we went, putting a finger up to mature society and "getting old". You could not claim "manhood" without this regular ritual. I don't think this ritualised behaviour is bad, but somewhere along the way dignity has been lost, pride in the culture one is brought up in isn't there, everything is about money and trying to forget it all, because it's so pointless. Most of the beer culture is about spending as much as possible (how could it be otherwise in a capitalist society, with the "celebration" of beer and culture designed around the need to sell more and more of your stuff?) and therefore the youth quickly gets lost and very, very confused. And because it is a (largely) pleasurable experience, going out and meeting new people, getting inebriated and letting go of the necessary and unnecessary strictures, and possibly getting laid, and something youth has done since time began, it isn't going to change - and why should it? It's the cultural surrounds and base that needs to change, the necessity for constant competition, constant work (usually unpleasurable and unchosen) and the living on the edge of possibly being unable to afford to eat or have somewhere to stay, which is what twists an otherwise pleasurable ritual of maturity, fun and bonding into something more akin to hell.

Unfortunately we are prone to Stockholm Syndrome, and are unable to realise that there are better alternatives.

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going out and by the way drinking together is also a kind of ritual, thats not the problem, but what we can see more and more are the senseless drinking competitons and bingeing alone.

alcohol has socializing action but at higher doses deadening effects and makes people more dull than Ganja, Kava, Coca, Poppies, Kratom, Virola and Iboga in other cultures.

Edited by mindperformer

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I've seen "stoners" in all of those positions. I also know of friends and youth deaths that have occurred due to falling off things, car accidents and assaults.

I will add however that "stoners" are typically not perpetrators of random street assaults.....

*highlighted "stoner" as I think it is a negative connotation

Edited by waterboy

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of course you can use or misuse every plant/ substance

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was told recently by someone in the know that pot actually does cause alot of domestic disputes...

i know i was like wtf, doesn't alcohol do that more? well, apparently when cops are called, more often than not these people also smoke... so...

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i need to add, not every stoner is "enlightened".

just because some use it to think deeply about how we live our lives and reflect and become better, doesn't mean there isn't another group who's ego is so big they can't achieve this, and live in a bubble, and instead of reflection they feel outside themselves and make stupid decisions with consequences.

its called mind altering for a reason, it can be positive or negative.

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I agree that over-consumption of alcohol tends towards silly behaviour. That doesn't mean it's guaranteed, but I guess the propensity for nasty outbursts would be higher among people who have drank themselves stupid than those who have smoked themselves sky-high on weed or opiated themselves half-unconscious. Some substances just bring out base emotions more readily. I think that's why Australian's (and others, of course) love alcohol - it's like a license to express yourself without restraint. Not many people (myself included) can express themselves honestly and freely. We seem to be a weirdly repressed and self-conscious nation of people. I don't want to offend anyone with this generalisation, it is just my opinion based on my experience as an Aussie who grew up here in a fairly typical suburban scenario.

The single biggest variable determining the chaos or control stemming from substance use - in most cases - is the individual. Most people have locked up impulses which can turn into actions given the right trigger, but the nature of those impulses and how deeply buried they are can make a big difference to the outcome of the expression.

When I was younger I, like many young Australian males, used to get carried away with alcohol intoxication and sometimes I became obnoxious, aggressive, and generally stupid. I said regrettable, stupid things to people, and at the worst of times lashed out physically - whether that be breaking an object or picking a fight. I was and still am terribly ashamed of those actions which were carried out in a mindless, animalistic state.

I know myself a bit better now, and these days I can drink myself unconscious without becoming identified with the fake euphoria, and although I still do regrettable things while drunk, those actions tend to be related to personal actions (smoke too many cigarettes, give myself a spontaneous haircut, etc) rather than directed toward other people or things.

Self-awareness is a big factor in how people respond to substances - more important than the substance itself, I believe - and that's a pretty hard thing to measure/regulate. It'd be a big jump in faith if the authorities moved away from the model of 'protecting people from themselves' to fostering personal accountability in return for greater personal liberty.

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