The morning glory- family and active agents

[mindperformer]

Plants in the Convolvulaceae-family are used entheogenic, but its not the plants themselfes making the hallucinogenic alkaloids but symbiotic fungi living on the plants. They biosynthesize the lysergic acid alkaloids in the leaves and translocalize them to the seeds. So the leaves are also active, but more in the early season.

To the symbiotic fungi:

http://2012.botanyco...=detail&aid=692

http://www.treebase....y.html?id=11183

The mayan Ololiuqui (Turbina corymbosa), also the leaves are active- contains Ergine, Isoergine (Erginine), traces of Chanoclavine, Elymoclavine and Lysergol:

The HBWR, which is traditionally used in India (Argyreia nervosa)- contains mainly Chanoclavine-1,-2, Agroclavine, Ergine and Isoergine, traces of Elymoclavine, Festuclavine, Lysergene, Lysergol, Isolysergol, Molyclavin, Penniclavin, Stetoclavin, Isosetoclavin, Ergometrinin, Lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide and Ergometrine (Ergonovine):

The famous morning glory (Ipomoea violacea)- contains Ergine (LSA), Isoergine, Chanoclavine, Elymoclavine and Ergometrine:

The south-american Florón (Ipomoea carnea syn. I. fistulosa), the seeds are used in Ecuador for intoxication and the plant as a ayahuasca-additive in the Ucayali-area in Peru- contains Agroclavine and Dihydrolysergol:

The Panama-Glory (Stictocardia tiliifolia)- contains Ergine, Chanoclavine-1,-2, Festuclavine, Lysergol, Ergometrinine, Lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide and Ergonovine (Ergometrine) and is as potent as Argyreia nervosa:

Some active constituents:

Ergine: (LSA)-Dopamine Antagonism (sedative profile) and only weak 5-HT2A/C-agonism

Isoergine: 5-HT2A/C partial agonism

Methergine (Methylergometrine): 5-HT2A/C partial agonism and describes as hallucinogenic by J. Ott

Ergometrine (Ergonovine): Partial HT2A/C agonism

Lysergene: HT2A Partial agonism/full antagonism

Festuclavine: HT2A Partial agonism/full antagonism

Agroclavine: HT2A Partial agonism/full antagonism

Elymoclavine: HT2A Partial agonism/full antagonism, Dopamine Agonism

Chanoclavine: D1/2-Dopamine and 5-HT2A/C Agonism

Lysergic acid: α-hydroxyethylamide

Lysergol: HT2A Partial agonism/full antagonism, HTF1 agonism,

Ergotamine: partial 5-HT2A agonism

Ergovaline: partial 5-HT2A agonism

Isolysergic acid

Lysergene: HT2A Partial agonism/full antagonism

Setoclavine

Isosetoclavine

Isolysergol

Edited September 11, 2012 by mindperformer

[CβL]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a quick test for 5-HT2A antagonism (other than diving in yourself)?

Maybe there is, but I never found one.

[glimpse]

Does anyone know of any traditional entheogenic use of HBWR in india (or elsewhere).

I just wonder how such a powerful plant with a history of medicinal uses does not seem to have (to my knowledge) a great history as an entheogen in its own right.

and cheers for another great thread mp

Edited September 9, 2012 by eatingsand

[mindperformer]

@CßL:

5-HT2A-agonism isn't the only necessity for classical hallucinogenic action. There are 2 ways which partial agonists can activate the 5-HT2A-receptor: The PLA-2 and the PLC pathway and only the PLC- pathway mediates psychedelic action. Most hallucinogens activate both pathways but for a high potency it is necessary to activate the PLC more, resp. a greater ratio.

Then LSD and many other classical hallucinogens activate the 5-HT1A- receptor too, which was found to be also necessary for the psychedelic action.

Last but not least there are the D2-dopamine- receptors... more on that issue in the pharmacology- threads.

So considering this complex neurology, the only easy way to know if its hallucinogenic or not is yet to ingest it in a (first very small) amount.

@eatingsand:

is this the type of study you are searching?

http://www.irjponlin...l2-issue2/5.pdf

Edited September 9, 2012 by mindperformer

[Wameron36]

I hadn't heard of the Ololiuqui leaves being active before, that's interesting.

[coin]

Does anyone know of any traditional entheogenic use of HBWR in india (or elsewhere).

I just wonder how such a powerful plant with a history of medicinal uses does not seem to have (to my knowledge) a great history as an entheogen in its own right.

 

There is ayurvedic use of argyreia roots that seems very similar to geriatric use of hydergine (cognitive enhancer/viriliser)

but I have no experience with it.

I have never heard of anyone experimenting with the roots and when I've mentioned it before, I haven't noticed anyone taking any interest.

the Indian strains have much less potent seeds, I believe, so the ratio of pleasant to unpleasant effects may over all leave the seed to be considered just mildly toxic.

Edited September 10, 2012 by coin

[mindperformer]

it is important not to eat the seeds...

the easiest way for (careful small-dose-) experiences is to make a cold-water-extract:

Powder the seeds and let it sit for 24 hours in cold water, shaking it sometimes, then filtrate through a coffee filtre and discard the seed-powder, or extract it again.

If you drink only the water, you have mostly the psychedelic alkaloids in it.

The other stuff, responsible for the bodily effects like nausea and sickness persist in the discarded seedpowder because it is less water soluble.

Another interesting study on Argyreia nervosa in India:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249918/

[mindperformer]

Ipomoea muricata (Laksmana) is also used medicinally in Ayurveda and contains Lysergol, Chanoclavine and indolizidine alkaloids (f.e. the analgesic Ipalbidine).

[Zaka]

Irie Mindbender,

A most interesting thread!!

I'm just wondering if you have come across any info on Ipomoea tillacea?

I've found local refference that has it locally known as "Caapi Doux"!!

Respect,

Z

[coin]

the most common ayurvedic use is of Ipomoea is I. digitata root - Vidari, or vidari kanda. Seems to be used in a way similar to maca. It's not psychoactive

and also Convolvulus pluricaulis - Shankhapushpi - nerve/brain tonic

[dizzyanarchist]

ive heard of the ipomoea violacea leaves being active but, people tried a basic a to b method on a heap of leaf mass but yeilded no results then said people tried a cold method of a to b and didn't work either what would ppl reckon if i just let the leaf mass to soak in water would be a better method maybe Ololiuqui if leaf mass is active also heard about morning glory flowers ferment in water and make a nice aromatic wine that might have slight hallucinogenic effect maybe if i fermented the leaves with some to this would be a good way to get a go every so often out of one of these plants in melbourne the morning glory family fascinates me i love goin out and gettin some hbwr seeds and have a munch every so often. i also i have spent a good amount of time researching if they can seed in melbourne and haven't really got any good answers yet is it possible to simulate a nice enviroment for them and get them to seed or do i need a male and female or something to get it to set seed

ohyeh is it possible to use the claviceps fungus safely? also is there any safe dosing with lsa and mao inhibitors

Edited September 12, 2012 by planthelper

[mindperformer]

Convolvulus pluricaulis is sedative via GABA-receptors and works against anxiety, opioid- and benzo- withdrawals, as a brain tonic and more

I tried it as a anxiolytic sedative and it worked well

[mindperformer]

don't use the Claviceps fungus, it also contains toxic compounds, a water extraction could be possible but still too dangerous.

I didn't try the ololiuqui-leaves yet but they can be promising, also with cold water extraction.

Ipomoea violacea grows everywere and always makes seeds.

[dizzyanarchist]

i found violaceas least im 9 probably 70% sure on it i have found other pictures of species that do look alike but it mostly looked like a violacea but could not find seed i looked over a plant in my old neighborhood examined it every change in weather in the year and it did not set seed i checked other plants to and could not find seed ive found them on bush morning glorys but their no good really from the reading i done.

thnx dude my mate was certain u could use the claviceps but i did not like the sound of it and done some reading on it just wasn't sure of it

i think i might try get a Convolvulus pluricaulis that sounds like a interesting plant.

tell me how the cold water extraction works on ololiuqui leaves when u get around to it im interested as might try to get some goin if its promising wouldn't mind ideas for things to throw in brews

does the cold water extractions on hbwr seeds have the same potential as chewing them i cant gut them anymore the taste of them is horrid i love the trip but that taste with the nuasea just kills me im sceptical on scratching the coatings still to is this really a good method to dodge the nuasea cuz then i might just be able to get over the taste atleast a few more times

[mindperformer]

yes scratching the coatings of HBWR helps also reducing the nausea, but even more important is the cold water extraction and if you grind it well and let it sit for at least 24 hours it is nearly equally potent but much more pleasurable

[mindperformer]

here in Austria you can get the Ipomoea violacea in normal garden centers because they are worldwide cultivated as ornamental.

[coin]

dizzyanarchist - you might find these threads address the Victorian Ipomoea weeds

http://www.shaman-au...showtopic=17633

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8694

Edited September 13, 2012 by coin

[dizzyanarchist]

mad ill be cold watering em up soon thanks coin for the links those helped alot i think im gonna get some cuttings and throw em in a nice dry spot and ill make them seed i got them mixed up with purpurea and think i seen a indica. would a Ololiuqui be able to grow at a steady rate in melbourne?

Edited September 13, 2012 by dizzyanarchist

[mindperformer]

you ooften have around 10 degrees C in Winter in Melbourne right? this would be a bit too cold to grow Ololiuqui outdoors