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Anxiety/Panic Attacks


solomon

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Hey all

Last night I experienced the worst panic attack I have ever had (several previous attacks which were horrid but not as bad)

Couldn't find a topic searching the forums via google devoted to anxiety/panic attacks and how to deal with them/avoid em so thought I would start one. if people are embarrassed to post their stories about anxiety feel free to PM me and I can post anon.

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Last night:

Lying in bed much earlier than I'm used to as I started a new job the next day. Thoughts on my mind to do with a recent, fairly smooth breakup with a long term partner, the new job, my health etc..Yes I had a wee smoke earlier in the day.

I just got a flood of all my worries and troubles and the feeling that I could never overcome them and the that I have fucked my brains chemistry and my emotions for good with psychedelics.

feeling like I can't escape my own head/thoughts and memories, then the fight or flight feeling kicks in and I almost get out of bed and run out of the house.. Luckily I stop myself before I get to the door but have to jump up and down to do something with the energy/need to fucking GO. all the while hyperventilating and moaning.

This feels like it's going on forever but the majority of it was probably only a quarter of an hour.. I felt better afterwards but couldn't bring myself to even try and process any of what had happened as I was still getting pangs of anxiety. So I had some ashwagandha and went to bed.

Of course now it seems silly and a bit pathetic, as it always does. I know a lot of the stuff I am anxious about is because it is a problem, and the stuff I can't do anything about should be seen as just that.

But it's like all reason goes out the door and all I am left with is fear.

Like a dark introspective trip on subs.

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When I have felt my anxiety coming up these things have helped:

Deep breathing

Talking to someone

Being in the garden

Going for a run/skate/bike

other things to occupy your mind.

Animals!

Obviously things like a healthy diet, regular exercise, good relationships with people, not fogging up your brain with drugs and sleep all play a part too.

These topics have relevant info:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30514

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20460

Would love to hear anyone else talk about dealing with anxiety and panic attacks, or any helpful info.

I find hearing how others experience their lives helps me to look at my life from a new perspective.

Edited by centipede
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Suffered from extreme panic attacks that were related to my OCD in the past. Tony Soprano style ones. At the moment, im pretty much healed but im constantly self-medicamentating my brain chemistry with coffee and other other mild stuff that is allowed here. Cant really tell you a perfect way how to deal with a panic attack but to me it was a great help to understand that it was in fact a panic attack and that im rather overreacting than having justified concerns. You know, when i had one, i told myself its just a panic attack and it will be over soon. What also helped me is telling myself the fact that most things that scare us aint going to happen anyway. Also, i realized that the more i tried to avoid something bad, the worse of an outcome i got so i might as well live my life like i want it to be and to do whatever i want to. You know, lets say you are scared of getting lung cancer so you stopped smoking out of fear. But as a result of you looking for a substitute, you´ll end up drinking heavily and get liver cancer while you´d probably would have lived longer if you´d just kept smoking. Do you know what i mean? Im not saying people should smoke because it is obviously bad for your health. Point im trying to make is people shouldnt make decisions based on fear because in many cases, the outcome will probably be worse than what they are trying to avoid.

I know its pretty naive but it also helped me that i changed my opinion about the universe. I started trusting the universe and live like it has some kind of plan for me and wont ever let me down. Since i live like that, im very focused and havent had panic attacks ever since. I live my life with the firm attitude that i have some kind of purpose in life and that i just wont end up being dead next year or tomorrow. I once hard that the more intelligent people are, the more likely they´ll develope some kind of depression or anxiety disorder. That made me rethink my way of dealing with things and made me believe the only way to live is not to overthink everything. Some things cant be avoided anyway no matter how scared you are so you can save yourself the energy to be panic about it. Dont be scared just be prepared for the worst. Think less, live more.

Edited by Evil Genius
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Have you ever heard of NLP and in particular double disassociation therapy.

If you can practise it while you are relaxed you might be able to use it to your advantage during a panic attack

It sounds complicated but basically you disassociate yourself from any scene or event twice and then view yourself from an outside perspective.

This link is in relation to phobias but it could help you to understand what I mean.

http://nlp-mentor.co...hobia-treatment

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It's all in ur perception. I used to suffer from severe anxiety, having to take xanax to relieve the feelings. Tunneling vision, sweaty hands & a dissociative light headedness. One day at a meeting for anxiety & agoraphobia sufferers I had an aha moment & have not had an attack since. The realisation was that I was self obsessing in an attempt to be in control. By coming to the realisation that we aren't in control, there's a release. Just accept what the universe deals up & take it in ur stride. You need to release urself from the delusional bubble that ur consciousness slips into every now & then. I now perform on stage & have no signs of anxiety recurring.

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Ive had several different kind of panic attacks, the freaking out style with hyperventilating and overwhelming thoughts of problems or mistakes, the feeling like I am going to have a heart attack ones, blackouts from angry emotions, feeling like high voltage is being applied to my brain when I am trying to go to sleep and nearly losing consciousness from the pain.

Ive found the most useful approach for me is that of curiosity. Ive tried to cultivate a habitual response to altered states or unusual moments in my experience, whenever I realise it is happening I go into calm observer mode so I can perceive what is happening rather than getting distracted by my thoughts.

Having the electric current sensation in my brain was the worst of my attacks, because it nearly takes away my consciousness and I struggle to observe or remember what has happened.

Calm observer mode usually involves calm controlled breathing and trying to absorb the stimuli rather than narrating it in my mind.

Sometimes controlled breathing is not possible because I dont seem to have much control of my body in some of these states.

I find these 'panic' states often make me feel like I am dying. This only increases my desire to be the observer, because I dont want to miss anything if I am indeed dying, as I feel this may be the most important moment in my linear experience.

I think it comes down to being fearless. Fear is what drives me to these states and I feel theres a constant ebb and flow between conquering my fears and new ones arising. Its easy to get unbalanced without being aware of it, particularly in hectic times.

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Focus,Focus,Focus.

I have also suffered with anxiety & have come to the realization that this all stems from somewhere in my brain.

The best way I can deal with this, is to keep my brain busy & to do this I FOCUS on things that are in no way important. Two examples;

The way the grain runs through a timber beam or table,can i find a picture?

I close my eyes & try to count the breaths I take, how many can I count before I forget were I'm up too?

When I was about 20 I was sitting on a chair at home when a weird feeling came over me, about 30 seconds past & I felt my eyes roll back in my head, everything went black, I awoke on the floor to a family member telling me I had a seizure (WTF), this had never happened before.

This started to happen more & more frequently, the neurosurgeon told me I had epilepsy, he couldn't tell me how or why.

For many years this went on, the doctors tried various medications all with little effect, I had on average 2 seizures a month up until I was 27, I started a new medication that helped bring them down to 2 a year (what a relief).

I call myself a lucky epileptic because I never had it as a child & I have always been able to feel the onset of them coming(giving me time to lay down/get away from danger,etc).

Now when I feel a seizure coming on I focus, using the examples above, I have not had a seizure for 2 1/2 years now.

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It's not always only a matter of perception, panic disorder can have a physical basis. You are feeling fine and enjoying yourself and not even particularly stressed and then you get a huge surge of adrenaline and sense of impending doom that seems to come out of nowhere.

Looking objectively though there are almost always stressors that could be related, even if they are far from worrying you on a conscious level. For you the break up of a long term relationship, new job and health concerns all sound like obvious vectors of stress. Going to bed early and lyring in the dark with this stuff swirling around in your head it's not surprising you felt anxious.

As space cadet points out though, at the root of anxiety and panic issues is often a fear of not being in control, but also can be fear of abandonment, of inadequacy, or of course just plain fear of death.

CBT and mindfulness meditation is good: think about your thinking, and keep track of what is going through your mind around the time of panic attacks so you can see what your body is alerting you to. Try and let your thoughts just happen without judging them or yourself. Jox and niggles seem to be talking about similar stuff: engaging your prefrontal cortex by talking yourself down with rational thoughts internally can also work wonders when your brain is highjacked by your amygdala.

Do some moderate exercise, avoid caffeine and other stimulants. When you begin to realize what it is at the root of your own anxiety, you may need to make life changes to remove certain stresses that you are currently unable to cope with, but even just knowing "oh right X happened so now I feel Y" can be a great help when panic strikes.

When the panic does hit, the best thing is just try and ride it out, don't resist or get up and start pacing etc. Recognize that you are having a panic attack and try and get into a frame of mind where you say: "ok so I will panic now, big deal" and laugh at yourself and your inner voice of panic. Recognize that you feel uncomfortable, but that it is okay to feel that way. Try and stay seated and calm and keep your breathing under control and remember that it will pass before long, like it always does.

Doing what the panic wants you to do is a sure way to keep it happening, but if you practice calmly accepting what is happening in your thoughts and body without reacting or judging you will notice less panic attacks, shorter panic attacks and more of a tolerance for panic attacks.. leaving your more mental space to work on the underlying issues that are triggering anxiety and panic.

Good luck man, I have a panic disorder and have worked hard on overcoming it for years now, it's not something many other people readily understand, so feel free to pm anytime you want to chat about it. Now I sometimes still have panic if I am in a situation likely to trigger it, but instead of freaking out I just sit there and ride it out and carry on with what I am doing and mostly people around me don't even realize anything is happening.

It's quire an empowering feeling when part of your brain is telling you you are surely going to die at any minute but another part of your brain is laughing while you sit there calmly and carry on small talk with someone who is completely oblivious to what is going on inisde you.

Edited by chilli
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I recently read a book called 'my stroke of insight' - It's about a neuroscientist that woke up one morning, felt a pain in her head and then over the course of the next 4 hours realised that she was having a stroke. Its a marvelous book that describes in intimate details the complete inner workings of her beautiful mind as it degrades, whilst she's using it to try and call for help. The reason I mention it here is that it gives a wonderful example of how a 'third person perspective' of oneself can allow you to analyse whats happening in your mind - even if your mind is compromised. Later the book goes on to describe how over the next 8 years she re-learns how to walk, talk and live a normal life through the brains' wonderful ability to re-wire itself, neuroplasticity is the latest buzz word for this i believe.

I think for anyone wondering how to 'use their brain to learn about their brain' and learn how to take control of their neurological circuitry, its a masterpiece. Written in easy to understand language, it has so many points that I can't even try to list them here. Every one of them is applicable to mastering self control, changing your thought patterns, realising trigger points etc... The most pertinent point relating to anxiety attacks is this: She mentions we are 'feeling beings that think' rather than 'thinking beings that feel' and that once an emotional response is triggered, it takes 90 seconds for the chemicals that have squirted thoughout your entire body to subside. If during that 90 seconds, no thoughts re-trigger the release of these chemicals, then you're free to move on to other thoughts unhindered. So with this in mind, its important to be aware of the triggers/thoughts that cause the attack, acknowledge them as they happen then put them aside in your mind till later. After 90 seconds or more, you can then go and analyse them if you wish - thinking anxoius thoughts repeatedly in the moment simply sustains the chemical release ad infinitum and clouds your ability to return to a more comfortable state.

I really like getting to the nuts and bolts of life - and although there's therapies and courses and a 'pill for every ill' - if you try learn the inner mechanics of your mind and body, you can be the master of your thoughts and emotions - from first principals. Everything else then falls into place around this framework. Good luck and thanks for sharing your experience!

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My best friend has been on Xanax for a number of years and swears by it, even to this day she starts going a bit strange without it for a couple days. Her attacks stem from some pretty horrific abuse in her family.

Is their anything trauma related behind your attacks centipede?

Modern medicine is often quite good for many people.

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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Jill Bolte Taylors 'stroke of insight' is one of my favorite videos online.. it gives me goosebumps and upswelling of emotion every time i see it.

I havent read the book but i would love to. Maybe I can borrow it off you sometime IndianDreaming...

(you should all watch this video its ridiculous)

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P.S. Xanax seems to have strong addictive qualities.. I have seen many people stuck on that stuff.

Often it makes people not very nice when they are on it (In my experience)

It may be a useful method of controlling anxiety for some people, but I am very cautious of all psychiatric medication.

Ive seen too many horror stories first hand to be able to view it from a non biased perspective.

I still hold strong to the idea that (for me) if I can look at myself and my experience with honesty, be ready to admit to being a fool and be open to change then I can overcome my internal conflicts and come to terms with the external conflicts.

My trust in other people to be able to achieve this has been thoroughly shaken, Im not sure if the path I follow is appropriate for anyone else but it has really helped me come to grips with my existence and reduce my suffering immensely.

At times Ive sought assistance from psychologists and psychiatrists and been shocked by what I perceived to be a lack of compassion or understanding and turning to medication as the primary means of intervention.

I really dont like people suggesting that the way I feel is unreasonable in my circumstances.

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Anxiety is NOT necessarily a bad thing. Stop talking about it like it's some kind of illness or sickness or condition. You only give it power that way. Try picking up some girls and getting a new love. Fear only holds you back, get out of your past life and comfort zone and conquer your future. Want to move on from your last relationship and feel good about your new job? Talk to as many women as you can, talk to as many people in your new job as you can. Anxiety is the cause of the greatest moments of my life not the worst. It's natural for your body to get nervous before doing something new - it's hardwired into us - so use it to your advantage.

Edited by botanika
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Anxiety is NOT necessarily a bad thing. Stop talking about it like it's some kind of illness or sickness or condition. You only give it power that way. Try picking up some girls and getting a new love. Fear only holds you back, get out of your past life and comfort zone and conquer your future. Want to move on from your last relationship and feel good about your new job? Talk to as many women as you can, talk to as many people in your new job as you can. Anxiety is the cause of the greatest moments of my life not the worst. It's natural for your body to get nervous before doing something new - it's hardwired into us - so use it to your advantage.

 

Really, I dont think getting a girlfriend is a good solution to anxiety, theres just as much chance they will increase the level of anxiety rather than relieve it, depending on the person.

Im more interested in establishing and maintaining a balanced lifestyle that I would be happy to share with someone else.

-edit-

I wanted to expand a little on this.

The majority of people I come across in my day to day life (I deal with humans for a living) appear to my eye to be dysfunctional, lacking in social etiquette, disinterested in any kind of self improvement and dare I say it rather self destructive.

I feel that 'picking up some girls' sounds like a terrible idea without a careful vetting process. I dont need more instability introduced into my life.

I find that most of the 'attacks' I have experienced tend to stem from dealing with crazy shit that other people (often partners) have introduced into my life.

Sure, Id love to have more company in my life and perhaps a partner I can love, however I prefer solitude to putting up with other peoples non productive bullshit.

Anxiety is not necesarily a bad thing, but there is such a thing as anxiety disorder, which is an illness or condition. (If we are believing what western medicine says) denying that one has a condition can lead to uncontrolled behaviour or anxiety which can be very problematic.

I figure noone feels exactly the same and maybe to you anxiety is conquered by picking up chicks or whatever, but the next person might be completely different and have a completely different kind of 'anxiety' to what you experience.

Edited by niggles
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It's gonna take me a long time to reply to all the comments here as they are all helpful and deserve a response, I might leave that for when I don't feel absolutely shagged... 9 hours of planting in hill tussock is good for the soul but hard on the body when you are outta shape

Long story short, last night as soon as I closed my eyes I felt anxiety building and recognised it as being just that and thought back to what I had heard from others here. I sat and looked at some indoor plants for a moment and had a glass of water and the anxiety subsided.

Went back to bed feeling on top of the world, buzzing with the idea that I could be "stronger" than the feeling, anything is possible sorta mentality haha

Decided to make some changes in how I am living and interacting people which have stuck without me even conciously noticing till now.

First day in a couple years?I haven't lived by my anxieties and it was a day meeting new people and doing something out of the ordinary.

Edited by centipede
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Thats great to hear centipede!

Id like to provide words of encouragement but I cant think of any right now..

Instead Id like to leave a favorite quote, the litany against fear of the Bene Gesserit from Frank Herberts 'Dune'

I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.

Only I will remain.

 

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"niggles" I think what "botanika" was getting at, was more about challenging ur boundaries, not specifically about getting a girlfriend per se. By forcing ourselves to step outside our comfort zone we make ourselves stronger through the process. But, this is a personal experience & we are all different, so what may work for one, may not work for another.

All the best with ur journey "centi".

Sounds like ur making breakthroughs already

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Hey bro,

Good to hear you r taking a positive approach, its always the hardest and most painful experiences that we can learn the most from.

I wouldnt suggest pickn up chicks at this point in time either lol.

From my perspective you seem to be taking the break up extremely well, and kudos for that my man.

Anxiety seems to be a side effect of life. I dnt knw what works for you but i have found you can spin yourself out even further by trying to dismiss how you feel.

If you can accept it and ride it through, its gone. If u put it off time and time again, it will only get u later with the combined force of all those feelings u have been trying to ignore.

I havent any suggestions which compare to the wisdom of those who have posted before me but I know in my heart that there is some gorgeous shamaness goddess out there (with an ethno garden to match your own) waiting to meet u and be swept off her feet by you one day.

Like EG said, trust that the universe has a plan for you and that all you desire will happen in its own good time.

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When you are in the midst of a panic attack, it can be difficult to 'snap out of it'

I do some daily thought exercises when I'm in the shower, or on the loo, or after work - that help me take charge of my thoughts when they get out of hand.

If I let my mind wander, it'll generally run over recent events, and think about current affairs that are pressing or stressful - over and over again... Instead of letting these thoughts continue, I stop them for a moment and think things like: 'When I pulled a face at my little neice, she giggled so hard she fell over!', 'Last year at the beach, bozo sneezed into his ice cream and it went everywhere', 'When was the last time I laughed so hard I thought I was going to piss myself?'... - Take a quick snapshot of yourself after thinking these thoughts and you find you've got a silly smile on your face and your emotions are uplifted. I often go further than this and try to tack one happy thought onto the next and make a mini 'mind movie' that I can run through at any time.

It only takes a moment a day - but the more you practice 'directing your thoughts' - rather than being led by them, the more chance you have of being able to wrench your mind back into a happy state when it spirals out of control.

I often find that after a minute or 2 of trawling my mind for happy thoughts and events, I'm so elated and refreshed afterwards, that I'm able to think about the things that are stressing me with a clear head, fresh state of mind and my emotions remain stable.

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"niggles" I think what "botanika" was getting at, was more about challenging ur boundaries, not specifically about getting a girlfriend per se. By forcing ourselves to step outside our comfort zone we make ourselves stronger through the process. But, this is a personal experience & we are all different, so what may work for one, may not work for another. 

All the best with ur journey "centi".

Sounds like ur making breakthroughs already

 

Exactly. It could be just talking to some women, opening a door for them with a smile, meet some new people.  Being in love is healthy and life is short. Anyone who says getting into a new relationship will lead to more anxiety is  just reinforcing their own insecurities. The future is full of awesome opportunities - take them.

If your hanging around people who get you down, seek out successful people.

Also try some self hypnosis tapes. I've got a couple and if I ever can't sleep I put them on and they work very well at relaxing your body and getting you breathing deeply as well as reinforcing positive values in yourself and others.

Edited by botanika
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If your hanging around people who get you down, seek out successful people

that^........................................and when you feel panicky whip it out and give it a right royal floggin ,

works everytime to give the mind something else to chew on <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_newimprovedwinkonclear.gif

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Dating is actually a pretty good thing to distract your mind from problems BUT heres the Thing: Girls have a very good sense for insecurity and anxiety problems in men so it would probably rather turn out to be contraproductive if you arent extremely lucky and run into a girl who´s very into you. Not sure what it is but chicks have some kind of radar for people who are struggeling and they usually dont like it if they dont suffer from extreme mothers complex. I assume that comes from the stoneage time when a healthy and strong man was the key to survival. So whenever they smell insecurity on date, they do whats programmed in their genes in order to survive: They run. You cant blame them, its what they needed to do if they wanted to survive. Just think about what would have happened if caveman had some kind of anxiety problem and wasnt really keen on leaving the cave to get some food while she was pregnant with their child. So in order to avoid having bad experiences on a date that might make you feel even more depressed than you already do, you can do a.) what good old caveman did and beat them with a stick until they change their mind or b.) get your problems sorted out first and start dating then. The latter worked for me. All my dating experiments threw me away somehow in my mental situation because i had so many problems that needed to be sorted out first. I was constantly meeting girls and was still lonely because i was getting more and more fucked up in the head. Dating is nice but on the long term, it wont solve your depressions and anxiety attacks. Been there done that. Doesnt work. So get your anxiety problems under control somehow, if necessary with some kind of chemical med and start dating then. Thats my general opinion about anxiety and dating.

Edited by Evil Genius
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EG - It's very true women sense a man's nervousness straight away whereas if you approach with a super confident attitude YOU are the prize and if she doesn't like you it's her loss, you will succeed anyway, it usually works. Practice makes perfect. Anyway that's another topic all together haha. My first post was just a suggestion, get back on the saddle and all that..

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