What is the scope of the Mycology subforum?

CβL · May 18, 2012

Hai guys,

I think it is understood by all of us that SAB is oriented towards existing forever, and as such, generally we stick to the whiter side of the grey area.

So I have seen a few pictures (a tray of picked mushrooms), and a few topics talking about mushroom collection, but I don't see anywhere (such as a sticky to that forum) explaining where the line sits.

It seems to me that posting many picked (Psilocybe) mushrooms is incriminating (posting detailed shots of individual picked mushrooms for identification I think is legitimate however).

It also seems that discussing future events is also incriminating (however photos of mushrooms in habitat, or discussion of past events are not really incriminating)

I don't have the law handy, but if Australia is anything like New Zealand, then as soon as you intentionally pick certain mushrooms, then you can get pinged.

Does anyone else think that a sticky with clear rules would be useful? Are my suggestions way out of whack?

PositiveHAL · May 18, 2012

fair call, and i know i am guilty of this one recently :blush: ,

i joined SAB a short time ago, but its very easy to forget that this forum is different to all the other forums...(well is it or isn't it?)

some solid rules, rigidly moderated would probably be a good thing for all

also does this extend to the chat feature...? prob should if thats the case? not sure how though

just not sure where you draw the line,

freedom of speech- Good

self incrimination- Bad

PositiveHAL · May 18, 2012

while im at it

what about private messages,

how discreet should one be in that respect

at0m · May 18, 2012

while im at it

what about private messages,

how discreet should one be in that respect

T or an admin would have to comment to confirm but my understanding is that they are, as the name suggests, private. Delete them afterward so they can't be read via database access and you should be alright.

Re: the OP,

I'd assume the rules would be become similar to how they are in other parts of the forum. I don't see why LEA wouldn't be able to pick you up for having a bag of freshly picked magic mushies. You are in possession of a controlled substance are you not?

chilli · May 18, 2012

I agree there is not enough notifcation of forum rules.

I've often thought there should be a sticky in cactus, mycology, lab forums at the top saying READ BEFORE POSTING or something, instead of the tiny little Posting Rules hidden down the bottom where no one will see it.

Some explication of what kinds of things are self-incriminating would be good too.

Evil Genius · May 18, 2012

There is a sticky in the cactus forum. Well actually there are two. Here http://www.shaman-au...showtopic=17519 and here http://www.shaman-au...showtopic=26821

The problem is that many people in general have a great ability to overlook sticky topics. I do that too sometimes.

Agree it might be good to have some sticky rules in the myco forum as it might save us some of the "are sporeprints legal?"-Threads. My personal opinion about it is that a picture of some picked psilocybes (on the table, ready for lunch, drying or whatever) is self-incriminating. Pictures of shrooms in nature are ok. But thats just my personal opinion and has to be decided by the mod of the forum. In this case naja.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Evil Genius

obtuse · May 19, 2012

Posted shroom photos should really only be of

a.) happy little mushroom/group of mushrooms growing happily in nature, that are then left to continue growing :wink:

or b.) an individual or couple of mushrooms picked specifically in order to help an individual to identify.

I think a bad trend has been set by some sites, such as shroomery, where everyone gloats about how much has been picked and then photos to boot.

By uploading photos of large quantaties of subs it is not only self incriminating, but could be seen as this site promoting an illegal activity.

In the same way, with reference to the cactus stickies, you would never post pictures of a cactus extraction, or discuss how your going to consume it.

my 2c.

Cheers, Ob.

Edited May 19, 2012 by obtuse

Pat Uri · May 19, 2012

Gidday everyone! Well here we are 'chewing' over problems that politicians and lawmakers are paid the big bucks for!

Now even old Pat here has had a few posts go "missing" - and not even the provocative stuff!

'Fraid I don't take to "blanket censorship" too well! Had too much of that, past. I pay handsomely for critical feedback - am happy to modify my posts - even leave all discretion of editorial power mutatis mutandis to moderators - but to have innocent stuff "disappear" like police evidence for defence before an inquiry, without explanation, makes you wonder if the next post is even worth writing! - will it still be there, when you call upon it? (I have the "old skool" deductive style of exposition)

I have no doubt - whether you know it yet or not - some of the things I'll be coming out with will be setting the scene for a while. Hence the moment I mention them, the law will be quick to shut them up. Gotta be careful folks! I is only testing the water at present - believe it or not! - this may not be the appropriate "forum" even yet!

Honestly, why ciggies are banned in gaol, and how to brew ginger beer in Burke's skull, are trivial, innocently placed, compared to what's coming...all going well!

In my long experience, in the most repressive, antidrug, police state of the Western World - all above ok - dodgy, but satirical - however if I were to elaborate a technique that concentrated alkaloid from even the most dilute sources - feral weeds, in fact! - and converted it into Schedule 9 - as we still say here - Controlled substance - authorities would have their warrant.

To say that Schedule 9 was dextro-methylamphetamine would shut the site. (Of course - no such process has been known yet)

Intent has a lot to do with it. So does money.

(Hated/loved by my peers - I'm a devout antimaterialist. May the Gods give me the strength to continue:- I have not had to touch money for ten years now. Nor had income, etc. Just giving away information and resources, existing on the donations and discarded materials of my country and friends makes me very perplexing to authorities - no money trail to follow, no motive, little intent, - who is "he"?)

To shut the site would ruin my whole premise "Let the Knowledge of One, Be a Treasure for Us All!" this I felt was the spirit of this forum. I shall establish trade - as I realise this is the very fabric of our group - even if I, above all, know what that requires in scheduling, logistics, DG, etc.

I am devout that "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" hence why I am happy to share, what I know will be profitable information, building us a very good forum indeed. I will try to practise this in my trade Blog (whatever that means!) which will be interesting.

If I am doing anything wrong, please tell me. "Nothing is of greater use to the oppressors than the minds of the oppressed" and Sartre's "Nothing is more pathetically sickening than victims who respect their executioner" in mind.

It's all "onus probandis' folks. Psilocybe are forever coming up on my property. Any pile of cow dung will spring up with them - even compost heaps.

I cannot be done for possession. However if QPS Cunstable Bastard asks me what they are, what they can be used for, how are they prepared, why do I leave them there knowing that, have I ever taken them knowing this effect, do I know they're illegal? - all off the record, of course - and I answer as I would here on forum, honestly - YES I will be done for possession!

Remember "presumption of innocence", "the burden of proof is on the accusers, not on the one who denies it." They don't know what they are, until you confess what they are. There is no spot test for psilocybin - sort of unique this way. Crush them or don't store them properly and the lab won't be able to detect it. That's why the police rely on your statement.

If your basket of fresh mushrooms contains ONLY hallucinogenic species, that is intent. If it contains a variety, including largely edible, that isn't intent - you're just an idiot, which is legal - the cops had to tell you what they were.

Preparations - which prove intent - are prima facie, they won't ask questions and just arrest you.

(Remember - all the time they are questioning you - you are not under arrest! They haven't the evidence yet. They are only talking to you because they need one word, one slip of the tongue, one wrong look, and that's the evidence they need. Best say not a thing! They are trained in crime detection - not you. They don't help you do your job, why should you help them?)

Again if the "kids" have decided to make a "witches brew" playing in the backyard - and have chucked a few goldies in with the flowers and herbs they usually brew, any decent cop will let it go. Might be a tip there.

(You'd be safe posting them as P.incognito - we know what you're talking about! I mean I got away with N.incognito - and everyone knew what I meant!)

Pat Uri · May 19, 2012

Sozz - raved on a bit there! (I'm 'testing' a few gaba modifiers this morning)

What I was trying to say is we have 'retrospective' law here - you happily post in information, that later becomes illegal, they don't pay much attention to the timestamp here. Time was when the best peyote collection was proudly kept by the Head of the Rockhamption Cactii and Succulent Fancier's Society and he was a Police Sargent! Mt Cootha Botanical Gardens kept a carpet of them behind bars!

What do we do? Stamp all the old stuff "legal at time of submission"? Tear pages from history? Much of what you find on wiki, would be illegal here if you hard copied it.

Regards! Repect! and Liberation!

Marcel · May 19, 2012

Seriously. Who is PU?

CβL · May 19, 2012

Alright, well I'm glad some some discussion has been taking place.

I also did want to mention that it seems that the Cactus and Succulent subforum (arguably it's similar subject matter) is nice and clear, and it's quickly pointed out when anyone posts something that is self-incriminating.

The problem is that many people in general have a great ability to overlook sticky topics. I do that too sometimes.

I must say this is where I think that this is entirely not a problem. If only 15% of members read the sticky, and are then able to politely inform their fellow forum members of the rules from the sticky, then the problem will be solved. It's just that there's no clear rules for the Mycology sub-forum for these hypothetical 15%.

chilli · May 20, 2012

I was going to say the same thing blunt: if it's at the top, people might miss it but they'll be all "doh" when it's shown to them. Also, I think we skip the stickies because we've been here a while? When I go to a new forum, I almost always read the "READ BEFORE POSTING" stuff, as different forums often have quite different expectations.

CβL · May 21, 2012

Well I hope that whoever is in charge can enact something. My key point being that prevention is better than damage control.

Torsten · May 22, 2012

I actaully don't like to definie the rules too tightly because so much of it depends on context and as soon as you have them all spelled out someone will try to push them to the limit. I give the mods a fair amount of freedom to assess posts on merit. Sometimes this means a good piece of info with a small bit of incrimination can stay or is slightly edited. if you spell this out in the rules then someone can make a post with just the incriminating bit and demand to get away with it.

I know this makes it a bit difficult and ambiguous, but it's actually not working too badly. Other forums have exact rules and the breaches there are just as frequent as here, so I don't think t is the rules that matter, but the purpose and understanding. As a community we strive for similar things and as long as members understand the reasons for the limits it is not that important to actually spell out the limits it seems. Those who don't respect the limits still wont' respect them when they are spelled out. Those who do respect them won't mind being moderated if they've overstepped things.

That said, I agree that there should be a forum sticky with guidelines. This does not have to spell out the limits exactly [for the reasson given above] and should also retain final say by the mod. The stickys should be made by the mods as each mod/team is slightly different. Hassle the shroom mod for a sticky if you want one there ;)

Pat Uri, we do not delete without notification unless the post is in blatant breach and even then you should be informed by the mod via PM. So if you've had posts go 'missing' I have the feeling there are other reasons. Although maybe I am missing something here.

Sometiems a questionable post is made invisible by one of the other mods and left to deal with by the specific forum mod. So a post might go 'missing' for a little while even if there is just a tiny problem or even a misunderstanding. The specific forum mod should then deal with that issue though so that nothing is ever done without explanation.

space cadet swami · May 22, 2012

^^I had the same issue as Pat with a post I made after 1st joining, referencing swim. I was informed by ballzac to modify the statement & did so accordingly. The thread was then removed & I then sent BZ a PM asking why, he told me it wasn't him & that he wouldn't delete it but would edit it if he felt it necessary....so maybe there is an overzealous moderator floating around in our midst.

To me it's not a big concern, but a PM notifying of its deletion & why would have been a nice courtesy.

Regardless this site rocks...

Evil Genius · May 23, 2012

so maybe there is an overzealous moderator floating around in our midst.

What forum was the post in? Do you still recall the name of the thread? Our moderators usually dont moderate outside their own forums. There are two mods in the ethno forum so maybe your thread was moderated from Planthelper. "Swim" is nothing we consider safe in regards to self-incrimination so this might have been the reason your post was edited. Or maybe it was reported and one of the supermods left it unapproved for the mod to decide if he wants to bring it back or not.

When i moderate a post, i message the OP directly and talk with him about the problem and work out a way how to solve it if i see a possibility to make the post come back because i know some people are putting a lot of time and energy in making certain posts and every member of our mod team appreciates that. And thats actually the best way to do it. Just editing a post without letting the member know is rather rude and thats not the way our mods work. All mods i know message posters anyway in case a complete Thread needs to be taken offline. If only a certain phrase needs to be gone FAST, mods can also leave a Note in the Post that it was moderated because of this and that. Its a question of good manners and respect for the members post. Also, we need to figure out a way about how to deal with a problem so theres no way around writing a pm. I even message spammers and inform them friendly that i had to delete their account because of the shit their were trying to pull. :lol:

Edited May 23, 2012 by Evil Genius

space cadet swami · May 24, 2012

^^^..."Ballzac" was the moderator I communicated with & he told me he didn't remove the thread, that he would modify it if he thought it needed doing so...he advised me to modify the thread myself, which I did & then it just disappeared. I think it might have been "ethnobotany", so it could have been PH. The thread was in reference to extraction of DMT from an aya mix if I remember right. Like I said it wasn't a biggie, but a PM would have been nicer then just removal of the thread.

Alchemica · May 26, 2012

^^^..."Ballzac" was the moderator I communicated with & he told me he didn't remove the thread, that he would modify it if he thought it needed doing so...he advised me to modify the thread myself, which I did & then it just disappeared. I think it might have been "ethnobotany", so it could have been PH. The thread was in reference to extraction of DMT from an aya mix if I remember right. Like I said it wasn't a biggie, but a PM would have been nicer then just removal of the thread.

I likely deleted that post from Pharmacology and Chemistry, or a similar topic started by you space cadet 101. It can be restored if you think it should be but there are other (more suitable) homes for threads like that IMO.

Apologies if my dealings with you were socially inept... expect a bit of that with me.

To all: I do try to PM to sort things out when needed, if something in the pharmacology forum goes missing and members have issues about it, PM me directly if needed. Also, if possible once the original poster has had a chance to get an answer, threads/posts pushing the boundaries might disappear.

I'm also the one who removed your posts Pat Uri (from pharmacology and chemistry).

Now even old Pat here has had a few posts go "missing" - and not even the provocative stuff! 'Fraid I don't take to "blanket censorship" too well! Had too much of that, past. I pay handsomely for critical feedback - am happy to modify my posts - even leave all discretion of editorial power mutatis mutandis to moderators - but to have innocent stuff "disappear" like police evidence for defence before an inquiry, without explanation, makes you wonder if the next post is even worth writing! - will it still be there, when you call upon it?

Valid point.

...why ciggies are banned in gaol, and how to brew ginger beer in Burke's skull, are trivial, innocently placed, compared to what's coming...all going well!

Chill forums are made for things like that. If you want those specifically mentioned posts moved there, that will be done - just say so and I'll donate my time to doing that for you. If you can condense all your great ideas into one post when you make a similar contribution in the future (include the off-topic esoteric insights and philosophy/humour with the potentially on-topic stuff), that would save me some effort.

Personally saw no reason why multiple off-topic posts, along with other esoteric chemistry suggestions needed to be in that thread (P&C is still a sub-forum about (and for) the plants... read 'Keep it legal' sticky for details).

Being guilty of making frankly insane posts while psychotic in the past (not classifying Pat's in that category) and being very thankful when moderators edited/removed those, I probably made a personal error on the basis of my experiences - sorry if you found that to be a problem.

So while we are at it, I'll also claim the title of 'overzealous moderator floating around in our midst' before anyone else is allocated it. Thanks.

Gets a bit tiresome censoring, against my personal beliefs, the same kinds of posts time-after-time. Keep it legal in pharmacology and chemistry. Good luck working out what that means you can, or can’t post. Read the 'Keep it legal' sticky and use other resources/forums or search engines to find answers (or better places to ask questions) before posting about something that could potentially fall outside of those lines in P&C, anyway.

If needed, sack me and find a replacement if people would like that. I'm not a mentally healthy, socially well-adapted prodigy who's climbed the 'forum hierarchy' on skill/merit/academia and been rightfully awarded some super moderator position. Instead, I'm someone who sincerely appreciates being given some responsibility, community and purpose in life towards something constructive, in a time when it is something that I do need. Didn't ask for the position (certainly didn't expect it) and DO make mistakes. I also have more free time than most to be able to spare…

As much of a shock as it might be, I don't enjoy moderating. I don’t wake up in the morning and look for things to remove either; I’m trying to do something to help the forum because I believe in the cause. It’s actually a chore [certainly helps me appreciate the efforts of the other moderators and contributions of members] but I don’t mind doing it… if it’s helping and I don’t get people complaining about my efforts.

Maybe WE can work out a 'Keep it legal FAQ' for Pharmacology and chemistry and some other guidelines with others, if people would like that?

Edited May 26, 2012 by Alchemica

space cadet swami · May 26, 2012

^^^Alchemica... please don't feel u have to apologise to me. I was just a bit confused when it happened, that's all. Ur job is a necessary one & even though u may be "The overzealous mod" :wink: , it is better that u are over, as opposed to under (especially when we are referring to incrimination).

Now I, must apologise to PH, for implying that he may have been "The overzealous mod" :blush: .

And the circle of love expands my brothers... :wub: oh & sisters. :innocent_n:

Evil Genius · May 26, 2012

Alchemica, will write some more about this when i have more time but i want to make it clear that there is no need to apologize or justify yourself here for moderating. Nothing i said was directed at you and i think your doing a great job. When its about moderating, decisions have to be done and its not possible to please everyone sometimes. Despite the fact that we´re moderators, we´re all just human and people make mistakes sometimes. However, i wouldnt consider the things you mentioned as mistakes. I´m always happy when people are able to practice some self-observation but i think your being too hard on yourself.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Evil Genius

Psylo · May 28, 2012