how reliable are 'they'?

[wandjina]

shit Jono! sounds terrifying. I know how full-on it is to really feel your heart, how fragile the physical body can seem, especially when it appears that something is 'wrong'. Whether it is or not, who knows...but from another perspective... how lucky we are to find these things out before they manifest in our 'day to day' lives. Now we are still in a position to do something about it.

I'd say yeah, get your heart checked, at least for piece of mind. The doc found nothing wrong with mine, but I have been taking better care of myself since then, and feel better for it. I thank 'them' for scaring me into getting serious about living, and hence serious about dying. So easy to forget how very much this means.

So easy to ignore the inevitable....and our fear of it. The ultimate fear to overcome.

[mescalito]

I reckon jono has maybe been told the truth and I also reckon that planthelper is possibly right in his theory.

The question remains that if we are already dead then why do we fight so furiously against the fact, yet constantly poison ourselves when we think we are alive and apparently well? <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_newimprovedwinkonclear.gif

[wandjina]

I wasn't sure if i should post this, as it is very personal, but...

Following my 'heart' experience, I spent quite alot of time wondering about my family, and if there was any history of heart disease. None, absolutely none.

But this morning my father had a heart attack. How reliable are they? IMO listen, and listen well.

[-YT-]

Thats very bad news Wadjina Best of Wishes for your Father

[wandjina]

..........looks like he's gonna be ok

[chilli]

I think that listening is OK, but just accepting what these beings tell you seems a little bit naive... you wouldn't trust what some stranger in a dark alley told you, so why does this not apply to supernatural beings? It seems that in this case, we should be even more cautious, as these entities are perhaps beyond our understanding or ability to discern accurately.

I'm not saying they do not sometimes deliver very accurate information, it has been my experience that in fact they do, to the point of accurately predicting the death of people I have known in horrific freak accidents. What I am saying is that this is not necessarily a reason for trusting the intentions or philosophies of these beings... what if they predict it, and then carry it out? What if they are not all sweetness and light, full of goodwill for all humanity, but malicious and deceptive spirits of death?

[wandjina]

that is if one 'really' 'believes' that 'they' are autonomous 'beings', with 'their' 'own' agendas....''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[occidentalis]

'LOL'

[botanika]

'they' and 'trust' are human language elements. Its all in your head, despite whatever symbiotic relationships plants have with us and despite what dna legacy we have in this universe.

Trust love. Love is real.

[chilli]

'they' and 'trust' are human language elements. Its all in your head, despite whatever symbiotic relationships plants have with us and despite what dna legacy we have in this universe.

Trust love. Love is real.

So 'love' is exempt as a mere human language element, then?

What is your criteria?

Is there such a thing as false or insincere love?

If so, then how do we discern the true from the false?

[botanika]

So 'love' is exempt as a mere human language element, then?

What is your criteria?

Is there such a thing as false or insincere love?

If so, then how do we discern the true from the false?

True and false is a dial for me. 1-10, 10-1. Its like a transparent dial, someone else may see the reverse side of what I see, or you see. Love is not exempt at all. I was just trying to be romantic and poetic. But you wouldn't be here at all if your parents hadn't entertained the idea at least of love, or had loved you somewhere on that dial of 1-10 or were loving a way of life that lead to your creation. To me Love is a flower in the wind, a bird in the sky. love is whatever you want it to be. Its just my interpretation of what I trust in life and nature and the sheer diverse beauty I see and feel around me, and feel deep within me is something I feel comfortable with, secure and trustful. Even if its a cyclone racing through the dark sky - I trust its process for no matter what destruction it brings, it ultimately is part of the ever changing creative process of what we call the universe.

'They' and what 'they' say and who 'they' are...hmmm...whoever started this topic? haha. I've always have directions or whatever as a kid and now with or without sacred things - when you problem solve your bouncing ideas around in your head - against what? Whats reflecting back? Who are you talking to when you think? What is it? God? Alter ego? Superconcious? Plant spirits or the undead? Electric pulses racing through a complex cerebal mass or nerve endings and brain cells evolved from the fundamental physics of the universe? I dont know? Does anyone REALLY know beyond scientific theories, analyses limited by technology and philosphical descriptions? Are we supposed to know? Will it always be changing anyway? Process. Journey, destination. I love gaining knowledge, whether it comes from a book or from an experience or from something your mind works out or from information given to your mind from a plant spirit if that's really really what happens - but what I trust is just 'being' and just being for me personally is loving life like a flower in a field. Riding the breeze of life as it flicks me from 1-10. My friends are the colourful petals, we all love each other, my family is the stalk. I trust it because Im in the field alive and full of sunshine. If Im knocked over - well Im just something else beautiful in its own way, even if its dying, decaying, recycling into something else. Thats something I trust because i see that everywhere in nature. Nature is intelligent, it has to be for it to have created humans with intelligence. Its the passion by which I like to live life and that passion, that love - sincere, insincere, womanly or sexual or friendship or parental, whatever it is makes me feel whole and fulfilled. 'Love' as a term, a word, a concept, only exists because of human language like gravity didn't exist before Newton. The actual feeling of emotions or the force of love or gravity probably exists, but as a term or concept its in OUR heads. Welll...actually and in our loins :D

How do we discern true from false? As Oasis say in their latest album 'dont believe the truth'!!! haha, now I have gone and confused even myself LOL!

Its all instincts to me and we all have a range of compatible and different instincts. the transparent dial of 1-10. My 1 is your 5, your 6 is my 3... its all cool. And my instinct is telling me I should go to the pub and stop writing this jumbled piece of rubbish.

[wandjina]

Well...it looks like 'they' might've been right.

I finally got my arse into gear and went and had my heart checked... did a few tests, including wearing a 'holter' monitor for 24hrs...and it turns out I have ventricular ectopic heartbeats. Sounds nasty, but apparently not in otherwise healthy people...basically just palpitations....thing is I have them a bit more regularly than most ppl, they are increasing in frequency, and with my Dads recent heart attack , and mum's heart murmur, they're sending me to a consultant cardiologist to pick over the details.

Anyhoo, my doc reckons that irregular heartbeat is due to a miss-firing of ones natural pace-maker...a bundle of nerves in the heart that regulates rhythm.

There's alot of info on the web re ephedra and irregular HB, also ephedra and neuropathy...nerve damage...

considering an ephedra overdose I had in my early 20s, I'm wondering if it could be possible that I did some damage to this part of my heart? But I can't find anything on this....the cardiologist is Chinese, so I'm hoping he knows a bit about TCM, as my doc had never heard of ma huang.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Green Chemist]

Wandjina,

Looking at your last post, it would not surprise me that you may be predisposed to heart problems considering your parents history. Health problems will often appear at an energy level before showing physical signs and symptoms. This can take years to manifest. For example, A unhealthy lifestyle will cause damage to heart, liver, lung energy systems within the body. Yet this person will show little signs of damage and no signs of permenent damage. Later in life the person's health may suddenly get worse due to the damage thatw as done before.

I know Ma Huang does effect the heart. To what extent it has effected yours I would not know, all though I would guess at the lest it may have damaged it at an energy level. It depends how much you took and what else with it. In your case, you should consider carefully anything you take inside you ( Aya, DMT especially). When the heart is damaged, the damage is usually permemant. I think you have the wisdom and knowledge to know how to look after your heart.

If you are going to use herbs, especially chinese herbs, I would recommend blood tonics and some of the more gentle chi tonics such as Dang Shen. Avoid Yang tonics, especially Heart Yang tonics unless given to you by a TCM doctor. And No Ren Shen (Ginseng). At your age you don't need it unless you are diabilitaiated. Hawthorn berries is good for the heart too.

To Planthelper and I think it was jono: To those spirits who say you are dying, might help to keep in mind that to them you may appear to have died and that is how you ended up in their space. Rick Strassman mentioned in his book, how normally they are invis to us and we to them. When we take certain substances then maybe our soul glows brightly enough for them to see us and they assume that we are dying ( Maybe when we die this is what happens). Hence, their expression that you are dying. ha ha ha ha ha Must leave them scratching their heads and wonder what the hell is going on when you fade back to the land of the living.

Cheers

Rick

[botanika]

And dont forget regular exercise. But not too much of course...

[wandjina]

thanks for your advice

It depends how much you took and what else with it.

It was a while ago...but I'm pretty sure the only other thing i had that night was pot. I cannot remember how much ma huang, but it was alot. We had a bag, like maybe half full oz bag, powdered it, and made a tea. I think i drank about a 1/3 of this. It was very very bitter.

A very frigthening experience followed, my heart beat extraordinarily fast for a few hours, I went bright red and felt as if i was going to 'pop'. Awful feeling of anxiety/dread.

In your case, you should consider carefully anything you take inside you ( Aya, DMT especially).

I always do....and while i can understand that smoked DMT may cause stress on the heart...I dont understand why Aya would be a problem. If anything I would tend to feel the opposite to be true.

[devance]

If your not slowing down as in can't do stuff its not a problem.

Angina, and arythima is not of concern.

Just feels flakey.

[devance]

Right rune.

Unfortunately the spirit of Eistein isn't the most powerful effect in a hallucenegenic state.

And in fact a hallucenogic experiences is entirely unnecessary.

Just confuses the situation as to a massive mind control experinece without hallucenogens or alternately to a invisible/unaware type of sadistic poking like with stick

[devance]

Well, must be pain puppet. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_ohmy.png

Many are.

Its provable, not like a outerlimits plot where the puppets are barbie dolls.

[ferret]

wandjina i had ventricular ectopic beats a couple of years ago during a bout of panic attacks that first appeared after a rough acid trip with lots of qat leaf (too much, too much ). not pleasant at all and being in a hyper-paranoid anxiety state for at least a month only made it worse. had to cut out all stims (coffee cigs and chocolate), got on the goddamned citalopram again for a few months while symptoms slowly dissipated.

weed was also a sure fire way to bring the attacks on too so i also had to stay away from that.

i should stop rambling cos this is probably way off the mark, cos my ectopic beats were anxiety induced ..

hope it gets sorted soon anyhow..

[devance]

Rhuematic fever is a old term for strept or stapth heart valve damage, which was a result of a misquito bite.

Just like it was yesterday.

Puerto Rico.

A very nice place.

Even after spending 9 months in the intensive care unit at age 6

I think all rich such invest in P.R

.

[chilli]

If your not slowing down as in can't do stuff its not a problem.

Angina, and arythima is not of concern.

Just feels flakey.

Actually, angina is often a precursor to a heart attack, but I don't think Wandjina mentioned having any. Furthermore, ventricular ectopic heartbeats are considerably more serious than the harmless palpitations many people have, as they originate from the bottom chambers of the heart (ventricles), where they are more likely to cause a fibrillation.

No offense, but unless you have some idea of what you're talking about, maybe you should refrain from giving out advice on such a serious topic.

[chilli]

Sorry to hear about your problems, Wandjina. I had a friend who died at 28 from heart problems... that kind of stuff has always freaked me out. Hey, did you ever end up reading The Idiot? My offer to post a free scuffed copy still stands.

[wandjina]

I just read these last few responses, thanks guys

and you're not off the mark Ferret, I really do appreciate your input....mine dont appear to be anxiety related, but I should be off stims anyway...only have a cup of coffee a day, but trying to switch to alternatives.

And cheers for the offer of The Idiot Chilli...but unfortunately no time for fiction at present.

Anyhoo, i see the cardiologist early next month...fingers crossed!

[transDiMenTional]

I only just finally read this thread and WOW guys! thats all ive got A lot of u have put into words stuff that ive thought/felt/experienced but could never articulate.

Botanika, it may be the 15mg of diazapam recently dissolved under my tongue but this;

"- but what I trust is just 'being' and just being for me personally is loving life like a flower in a field. Riding the breeze of life as it flicks me from 1-10. My friends are the colourful petals, we all love each other, my family is the stalk. I trust it because Im in the field alive and full of sunshine. If Im knocked over - well Im just something else beautiful in its own way, even if its dying, decaying, recycling into something else. Thats something I trust because i see that everywhere in nature. Nature is intelligent, it has to be for it to have created humans with intelligence. Its the passion by which I like to live life and that passion, that love - sincere, insincere, womanly or sexual or friendship or parental, whatever it is makes me feel whole and fulfilled. 'Love' "

-is one of the most beautiful things i have had the pleasure of reading and I must say describes well one of the first messages i received from mother aya.

[devance]

Actually, angina is often a precursor to a heart attack, but I don't think Wandjina mentioned having any. Furthermore, ventricular ectopic heartbeats are considerably more serious than the harmless palpitations many people have, as they originate from the bottom chambers of the heart (ventricles), where they are more likely to cause a fibrillation.

No offense, but unless you have some idea of what you're talking about, maybe you should refrain from giving out advice on such a serious topic.

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Give more advice. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_wave-finger.gif