kratom

[Guest jetson77]

has anyone out there tried kratom ? What's it like would you recommend it? Any seeds or cuttings for sale?

[Murple]

Its like a mild vicodin buzz. Its nice, and I would recommend it, but I dont see anyone getting too excited about it unless they can't get any other drugs. Itd be a nice alternative to have on hand for boring evenings though.

[Guest NOB]

Does anyone know for sure if it has pain relieving properties. I know it's supposed give you a mild codeine buzz, but is it beneficial in reducing pain?

I go through 100 panadeines every 2 - 3 weeks, would be nice to use the leaves of this plant instead.

[This message has been edited by NOB (edited 23 October 2001).]

[Murple]

Well, it works on the same receptors as opiates, so my guess is that it has some similar pain relieving properties... but its a very mild drug, and not likely to be useful against anything but minor pain such as headaches etc.

[rkundalini]

I will check when I go home but I was reading an old issue of The Entheogen Review last night, which had an article about Kratom. If I remember it correctly, someone was using it to reduce a 2 gram/day morphine intake and said that unlike morphine, it relieved the pain instead of simply distracting him from it. I hope I am remembering the right article.

[rkundalini]

"Paul E. Wogg", The Entheogen Review 8 (1) 2000 p 55:

Pain Reliever? One collegue with severe pain, for which he is prescribed high doses of opiate analgesics, tried using the dried leaf to ease his withdrawal and reduce his current dose of 1.4 gm morphine and 24 mg dilaudid per day (as kratom is rumored to be effective in curbing opiate withdrawal). He said that he found it very useful, not necessarily so much to curb with withdrawal (it is unclear if it helped with this aspect or not), but he found that it tended to relieve the pain -- not just distract him from it, as his prescription opiates did). Another collegue who was sent a sample reported the anxiolytic effects, but with an unexpected beneficial side-effect of relieving his chronic lower-back pain. He said that a small amount chewed in the afternoon or early evening (perhaps below threshold psychoactive levels) relieved his back pain for the rest of the day, with pain returning the following morning.

[Guest NOB]

That sounds positive, I wonder why the pharmaceutical companies have't got a preparation on the market.

[This message has been edited by Darklight (edited 25 October 2001).]

[Guest reville]

Because youd have to a) get hold of it and grow it outside thailand

b)you cant patent it - for pain relief because its too obvious and has already been used for that.

You could patent it for a non obvious reason though - like if it was proven to be an anticancer agent

[Darklight]

Originally posted by NOB:

That sounds positive, I wonder why the pharmaceutical companies have't got a preparation on the market.

Are you being sarcastic here or what?

The whole point of keeping the plant prices down to only cover research costs was so that the multifaceted medicinal benefits of kratom are available to everyone equally rather than as a pharmaceutical product whose marketing & availablity is mediated by multinational interests.

NOB, I'm sorry I bimboe'd out in a multitasking window frenzy and pressed the edit button on yr post, rather than the reply-with-quote button. Yr post accidetally got edited but I hope I restored it fully. Tried to email you but yr profile doesn't list an addy. Apologies again. I shouldn't multitask with only half a brain running

Torsten I know you're busy but can sometime before EB2 can I pleeeeease have a copy of yr Kratom etc presentation online at the EB2001 site

[Guest NOB]

Well actually I'm pretty ignorant about patents and the Katrom situation.

But surely the pharms can make shit loads of money from this plant if it is as effective a pain killer as some research has shown and without physical addiction. Surely no one owns patents to codeine and morphine, yet I'd think they would make up the largest portion of the opiate pain killer market, must be quite profitable.

With research perhaps a semi-synthetic drug made from mitragynine could me produced and patented, that is even more marketable. I"m sure a multi-national would have more than enough money to buy permits that would allow them to cut down all those illegal trees for the Thai Government, and come to an exclusive licencing agreement on harvesting and farming the tree, pretty much negating the need for a patent.

So why hasn't it been done? That's what struck me as odd. Of course I don't think it's a good thing if this were to occur and katrom were to become scheduled, it just seems strange that it hasn't been done given the widely known history of the plant.

[This message has been edited by NOB (edited 26 October 2001).]

[Murple]

> But surely the pharms can make shit loads

> of money from this plant if it is as

> effective a pain killer as some research

> has shown and without physical addiction.

The verdict is still out on whether or not its addictive. I wouldnt be surprised if it has some addictive potential.

> Surely no one owns patents to codeine and

> morphine, yet I'd think they would make up

> the largest portion of the opiate pain

> killer market, must be quite profitable.

Actually I suspect that synthetic painkillers probably make up a much bigger part of the market... such as oxycodone, hydrocodone, propoxyphene, etc. I dont think morphine or codeine are really the cash cows of the pharmaceutical industry. However, your point is true that even without a patent, something like kratom (or mitragynine, more likely) could turn a profit even without a patent.

> With research perhaps a semi-synthetic drug

> made from mitragynine could me produced and

> patented, that is even more marketable.

This would be worth looking into, if nothing else just to increase our understanding of how chemicals affect the brain. Of course, for a pharmaceutical company to consider research like this, they've got to have a reason to think they can get something from it. They already have plenty of pain killers, and I'm not sure kratom offers any unusual benefits over the other choices.