niggles Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 can someone explain me why fish isn't meat? Because vegetarians like the taste? (joke) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazonian Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I remembered reading about the difference in the length of the intestine of carnivores and herbivores, so i quickly searched to find the right wording and came across the site.. celestialhealing . net, and thought that info' was alright . I am not a very scientific person and it just read ok to me <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_blush.png . I edited and added a 'the following info is not 100% true' to that post, but haven't deleted as it would ruin the flow of the other posts. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danshaman Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I myself am thinking about a diet one i have never heard before but was curious to how it would workwhen it comes to eating animals I'm all for it but when said animals are at the higher end at the intelligence scale I feel completely differente.g dolphins, certain species of birds, certain mammals and of course primates and certain livetsockI don't how this works ethically as I'm fairly young and dumb but could this be takin into account......I have certain animals i respect much greater for there intellect and others for the nutrition they contain for other things to liveI mean why don't we eat each other? I'm sure it would free up some prison spacethere are too many people that instead of contributing to the natural order of things fuck with it or ignore it hey its not that hard to try. I SAY EAT THEM!I personally don't think red meat is necessary but damn its good.... despite my cravings for a mass T-bone i choose to steer clearcows give us milk why eat them aswell milk should be plenty, chickens give us protein rich eggs why eat the chicken to get said proteinalso If I'm correct these animals don't have that many offsrping compared to most species of fishthis is why i choose to eat fish over other animals they breed like fucking crazy same with crustaceans and alot of other see crittersI think I'd eat a rabbit or any other big enough rodent .....lets not to mention natures super foods we all should knowI'm of to have an advacado, tomato, beans, chia and linseed salad with an egg on top I guess this all comes down to what we need not want I sure could go for a nice steak but i choose not!peacedan Edited February 13, 2012 by danshaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CβL Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No worries Amazonian, I'm glad you didn't take what I wrote as an attack (as it certainly is not, why I wrote "list writer", etc). One thing I do think is important to make clear to the vegxns who wish to stop/regulate commercial fishing is that the "it's destroying the oceans" attitude is unfortunately mostly false. It's changing the oceans, but not destroying them. The higher predators are being evicted at a swift rate, but at just a swift rate, new predators are taking their niche. A surprising predator is the jellyfish, with ocean currents heavy in runoff fertilizer and a lack of predation, they are able to grow to much larger sizes and number, and are perhaps going to replace the niche of tuna one day. The ocean will live on. But, can we eat jellyfish? (no)I fully support heavy regulation and increased market prices for fish, but the people who make the decisions mostly suppress their emotions and empathy, and as such, emotional appeals (which "it's destroying the oceans!" is) are ineffective. To affect these people, an appeal to logic is the only way through (unless you want to become friends with your politicians...). So, without further ado, begin the "Jellyfish taste like shit (and are poisonous)" campaign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChaser Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Jabez, I'm a girl, therefore I am a little bitch, silly boy. Oh! Sorry about that. Your comment doesn't really seem that offensive, knowing that. I just assumed from the 'feeling like a grumpy old man' comment you made. But I guess they do say assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups. I am honestly incredibly sorry for making that comment in light of the fact.Auxin, I've got a carton of ecoeggs here that say they contain 2 micrograms of B12 per serve (2 eggs), which from a quick google search says is about the RDI. Also your veggies and grains still don't have all the essential amino acids to make a full protein, right? Sorry just being a smart arse now.Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Auxin, I've got a carton of ecoeggs here that say they contain 2 micrograms of B12 per serve (2 eggs), which from a quick google search says is about the RDI. Also your veggies and grains still don't have all the essential amino acids to make a full protein, right?The USDA database sets ordinary eggs at 0.6 µg per medium egg, thats based on an average from testing many eggs from many sources. Your brand may have 1 µg per egg, or that may just be the one extreme outlier they found which they advertize for profit.Anyway, yeah, recommended daily minimum is variably stated anywhere from 2 to 6 µg per day.And yes, contrary to urban myth, grains contain every singe essential amino acid and in sufficient quantity. As do every known legume. As do potatoes.No joke.Some plant sources have proportionatly less of one or another essential amino acid but in the absence of getting a large dose of calories from fat or sugar a veg*n diet that provides enough calories provides a clear excess of protein, more than enough to compensate for having a touch less lysine or whatnot than human flesh. Edited February 13, 2012 by Auxin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChaser Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yeah, I gotta call ya on that one Auxin. Do you have any kind of credible source to back this claim up? Because I simply don't think it's true. I am positive that all the grains I have looked up are missing at least one essential amino acid and I have also looked up lentils, which although is a great source of protein, simply does not contain all 8 essential amino acids. But if it's true, I'd love to be proved wrong. you'd just need to supply a credible source. Just calling it a urban myth just doesn't convince me and I've read to much reliable sources that say your claim simply isn't true and is the very reason becoming a vegan is such an extreme lifestyle choice.Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 can someone explain me why fish isn't meat? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iFuUa68q4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Haha eatfoo I thought of that too "and its okay to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings"Oh yeah and don't forget: "we can have some more: nature is a whore" Edited February 13, 2012 by chilli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Sure Jabez, most simply and directly lets look at the lentils you mentioned.This database entry is directly copied from the USDA database which averaged values tested from multiple sources of plain cooked lentils:[Link]Look at the protein score graph and you'll see its nearly meat like with a slight dip in the methionine and cysteine, click for more info on the 'protein and amino acids' tab and you'll see it does indeed contain every single essential amino acid! (In that series they didnt test for hydroxyproline which is a non-essential amino acid formed by modification of proline in synthesized proteins).Now lets look at wheat, because whole wheat bread is a major source of energy and protein for many peoples.[Link]The score card shows a dip on the lysine, distinctly less lysine than meat, a common trait in grains and the source of the myth that grains "dont have lysine". Click the extended view and you'll see it does indeed have it tho, to the extent of 454 mg per cup or 111.5 mg per 100 Calories of food. Now then, just how much do we need? According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization adults should get 12 mg lysine per kilogram of bodyweight. For a 75 kilo person thats 900 mg. Thats the equivalent of 807 Calories worth of wheat, well under half the caloric needs of most people and with the source being a plant food 'notoriously' 'low' in lysine.Millet is the most 'unbalanced' grain I can think of, with a very un-meatlike lysine content * Even this supposedly markedly deficient grain would yield that required amount of lysine if 1600 Calories worth were consumed, less calories than most people need per day.I've never seen a single natural food totally lacking any amino acid needed for protein synthesis.For further and more in depth reading on this subject Dr. John McDougal, author of at least 9 papers published in medical journals such as the journal of the american medical association, wrote a nice article on the subject [Link]If you want to compare the human requirement numbers he uses with those published by UN health authorities those can be found [Here]And, of course, you can always look up the amino acid profiles of foods listed in the USDA's database via the more easily searched NutritionData website.So, jabez, I'm glad me 'calling it a urban myth' did not convince you, alone it shouldnt have. But did that abundance of data do the job? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What's your personal opinion on protein intake recommendations, Auxin? EFSA Suggests Daily EU Protein Intake of 0.83 g/kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I honestly have not investigated the issue of theoretical idealized protein dosage per kilo of bodyweight all that much as I've hurt myself in the past by obsessing on some obscure fine point of scientific logic while ignoring the big picture, not to mention that published data would generally be in regards to meat protein in mildly overweight sedetary populations or in hardcore athletes. Food is a package deal with vitamins and minerals too so in regards to protein I just went by a passive route of eliminating all empty calories of refined fats and sugars and getting most proteins from grains with one big pot of chilli or curried lentils per week, the math said that such a diet would easily supply the recommended amounts of essential amino acids and the quantity of protein wasnt near the excess that is known to cause harm to the kidneys so I just watched what happened. In my case that diet combined with a increase in exercise replaced each lost pound of fat with a new pound of muscle while increasing stamina and decreasing heart rate and not getting tired easily any more- a sure sign that I was getting enough of the right proteins and not manifesting any overt anemias.I do avoid excesses of protein as they have a cumulative harmful effect on the kidneys and I avoid refined non-fresh protein products like fake meats and textured soy protein because they are oxidized glycated trash that promote inflammation and they cost too much anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shruman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 How hardcore do we get?... any janists out there?I used to know a woman who claimed to live on only spirulina... she looked like death...I love me meat but our family does eat alot of vege & fruit aswell.Murdered a dozen home grown ducks last year, even convinced the missus to pluck em, was good to get back to the source do'nt have them or the chooks anymore, I miss the buggerz."In the Hindu religion, meat is considered as being in the mode of ignorance . If you were to offer the 'god' (Krsna) deity food, it should be in the form of fruit, vegetables, herbs, grains, nuts, etc.. but no dead animals."Not just meat though some vegetables are food of ignorance aswell like onions & garlic so do'nt offer krishna those either or mushrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chnt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 i'm a jashinist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niggles Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) There is a tree near my house on a busy road, its a big beautiful gum tree.Seems as though people leave offerings for the tree all the time.. anything from a baby car seat, broken bottles, big sacks of mouldy bread to broken toys, kettles bike wheels. All sorts of things.The funny thing is by morning the offerings have usually disappeared, and new ones appear.I have been getting into the habit of giving offering to the sacred coburg tree also (I keep my offerings to food products)Ever since I started this, my life has been much more positive, the snails have stopped eating my cactus, my skin has a healthy glow... (It is clearly the trees doing.) Anyone for a pilgramige to the sacred coburg tree?-edited for name error- Edited February 14, 2012 by niggles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazonian Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 "In the Hindu religion, meat is considered as being in the mode of ignorance . If you were to offer the 'god' (Krsna) deity food, it should be in the form of fruit, vegetables, herbs, grains, nuts, etc.. but no dead animals."Not just meat though some vegetables are food of ignorance aswell like onions & garlic so do'nt offer krishna those either or mushrooms. Yeah, onions, garlic and chillies are in the mode of passion.. I didnt know that mushrooms were not accepted though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazonian Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Your a dag niggles. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shruman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yeah I'm not so sure on the shrooms, just what I was told by a Hare i used ta know he loved them but would'nt eat them cause he said they were food of ignorance growing in shit & all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kookaburra Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I was a total vegetarian for 5 years, but started eating fish again last year. At first I avoided being the idea of a "pescatarian" because it seemed hypocritical, but fish was the only kind of meat I actually missed, so I decided to incorporate it slightly into my diet. Plus, it's healthy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distracted Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm very glad I hate the taste/smell and texture of fish, even the idea of eating them creeps me out.I'm glad because I think fish would be the one type of animal i'd feel quite guilty consuming.I read in the paper the other day about someone catching a 20-30 year old abalone. They were so excited saying how rare it was and how it was so good to catch one that big. They fucking killed something that survived for maybe 3 decades, that to me is so depressing. There wasn't even the slightest bit of sadness in the article just how great it was that they were able to kill something so old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualia Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) enjoy your fish while you can, overfishing was bad enough but with ocean acidification tacked on it won't last much longer2. Snapshot of the global situationOf the 600 marine fish stocks monitored by FAO:3% are underexploited20% are moderately exploited52% are fully exploited17% are overexploited7% are depleted1% are recovering from depletionhttp://www.fao.org/n...5/en/stocks.pdf Edited February 15, 2012 by qualia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChaser Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Auxin, Fair enough, you are obviously right. But still, protein from non animals sources 'is' usually aways deficient (not necessary lacking like I claimed) in at least 1 essential amino acid, which is where I was confused. Which basically means you need a lot more protein from non animal sources, than you need from protein sourced from an animal, right? Which I am thinking means you basically have to consume a lot more calories to get a sufficient amount of good quality protein from non animal sources.I do understand that it is claimed you can correct this problem by consuming non animal sourced protein from a number of different sources, but think a lot of people might find this difficult, since protein deficiency is common amongst people that go vegan.Anyway, I personally just feel a lot better after consuming quality protein from eggs or milk products, than I ever do from non animal sources. It does also undoubtably help a lot better with muscle recovery IMO. Plus all the longterm vegans I've ever met just seem to lack muscle tone, even if there active people and also seem to have a unhealthy complexion in general. Although this might not always be so, it's just my personal experience.Personally, I still do think it's important to get atleast some of your protein from a source that is not deficient in any of the essential amino acids, especially if your a very active person.Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Wayne 'junior' Pearce was a vegan rugby league forward who captained club and country. Certainly no lack of muscle tone there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 On the flip side, theres Lemmy. Who eats nothing but meat, bourbon and pingers. Apparently he is perfectly healthy, inc healthy liver and kidneys.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmy#Drugs_and_alcohol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChaser Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Wayne 'junior' Pearce was a vegan rugby league forward who captained club and country. Certainly no lack of muscle tone there. I have no kind of interest in team sports, especially rugby (considering I was born & raised in Melbourne, lol), so I have no idea who your talking about. But being a rugby player, I'm sure he is pumped. But this bloke uses he's body as he's profession. So obviously has personal trainers and would see nutritionists regularly. Plus the dude probably even uses those expensive amino acid supplements that body builders use for muscle recovery. Or maybe he just has a body type that's abnormally efficient at absorbing protein, who knows.I still don't think anyone could argue that your average person would have to pay extremely close attention to there diet if they choose to become a vegan and were not eating protein that was sourced from an animal, in order to not develop a deficiency. Which would not be an easy thing to do for most people who work all week or for someone who simply doesn't have much disposable income. Plus, although most people could probably live off grains, legumes and vegetables for a short time and develop good muscle tone, if they were exercising heaps. IMO, I still personally think you must be making it a lot harder for yourself to gain good muscle mass in the longterm.Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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