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Does Hatred Trump Love? Duality.

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I've always been interested in Evil, Darth Vader, Sauron, Dick Dastardly, I loved it all. I was always curious, what would have happened if Sauron had whooped Middle Earth's ass and him and his mates roamed freely across the lands without fear of prejudice or repression from the Elves, Dwarves and Men. Or if Dick Dastardly had won a race?

"To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions."

Issac Newton.

A perfect example of duality being the driving force behind EVERYTHING.

Jesus, Siddhartha Gautama, Moses, Muhammed, Ghandi, all those cats found the power of peace, love and respect and believed it to be the path of righteousness and the way to God. That's one side of the story, what about the other side? Hatred, death and suffering must be just as powerful right?

Names like Shiva, Loki, Set and Hitler start jumping into my mind, Shiva had a duty to maintanence, for everything created/given life, something had to the destroyed. Set was the deity of darkness and chaos, who killed his own brother and had a blue with Horus. Hitler's hatred for a weak and diverse society nearly united a whole continent under the flag of God in just a few years.

My mind opens itself up to some pretty fantastic ideas when I'm pissed off. I feel more alive, I have clarity of thought, I'm more productive in every aspect of my life if I'm dwelling on thoughts of hatred. I have had more profound psychedelic expiriences and introspective voyages meditating on sickness or hatred. And as wierd as this sounds, I'm happier when something is bothering me.

So I put it to you, can you reach the divine through the path of Hatred too?

Would Gautama have been just as effective in his meditation if he roamed Indian with an AR13 playing simon says lie down with the overpopulated, starving locals first (God's duty to maintain)?

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I think for one to exist the other must also, yin-yang.

In TCM anger is viewed differently than it is from a western perspective. Anger is associated with the liver (wood) which can represent new growth so anger can be a positive force if it is acted upon to bring some positive change. Anger can a very creative force. It's when it stagnates that it becomes a problem.

I thought Buddha decided that any extremes were detrimental and decided that the middle path was the best approach to have in all aspects of life.

Edited by SallyD

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the third side of the coin

is maybe seeing where they join

to see that hatred

is just where love hasn't shone

perception divides.

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All a matter of perspective, and not in the usual "To Hitler he wasn't evil" sense.

Without one, the other can't exist because they are qualitative...a comparison against each other.

And I don't know. It seems no evil has ever prevailed! Or if it has, it's been defeated pretty quick (talking about despotism in the third world). Although, the next storm that those O so rich will bring is another matter...

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i would have to disagree with above and say that evil is prevailing in almost every aspect of this world right now as we speak...

on another note, i suggest that the OP watch Naruto (the anime, or alternatively read the manga), it sounds right up your alley.

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Yeah, I guess that was pretty inconsiderate of me...I apologise. I was referring to the type of evil that is attempting to take over the world/stage mass killings etc. for their goal...but I guess that happens in every country.

Heh. My main point was the comparative nature of good/evil.

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abandoned

Edited by dworx
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hatred seems to me to be a negative emotion that feeds on itself, it's a wide & easy road, but in the end takes you nowhere.

love may be a narrow & hard road that still takes you nowhere, but at least you'll have a more positive experience.

as for good & evil, they are just labels

there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so

Shakespear

Edited by nabraxas
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all good khala, no need to apologise.

i love you

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My mind opens itself up to some pretty fantastic ideas when I'm pissed off. I feel more alive, I have clarity of thought, I'm more productive in every aspect of my life if I'm dwelling on thoughts of hatred. I have had more profound psychedelic expiriences and introspective voyages meditating on sickness or hatred. And as wierd as this sounds, I'm happier when something is bothering me.

The duality, indeed! I've never seen someone admit that so candidly. Overall, I think someone's love is someone's hatred (perspective) but both distract us until Death Triumphant.

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gunfighter I think evil is bad ;) Seriously though, if you can channel anger or other negative urges into something positive and creative, that is what Freud called sublimation and is probably the most constructive thing you can do with anger.

Overcoming anger with love and peace and stuff is far better option though I think, although you might get less done.. and I would not think hate would be a wise path to choose to follow though, as like fear it seems very self-destructive and damaging to the person controlled by it. Oh yeah, and it is like evil and shit too. ;)

_____________

I think it is natural to feel like the world is getting worse, ironically it is part of the reason people try to make the world better.

There is a lot of evidence that the world is actually getting better, for instance check out Stephen Pinker's talk at TED on the Myth of Violence:

 

 

Also check out the summary of The Millenium Project's State of the Future 2011 and this article by The Economist.

Lots of bad shit happening everywhere, but still a far better time to be alive than in any other period of history.. of course the big question is how sustainable all this is, and also history shows that shit can get bad really fast.. there is still every chance the entire world will descend into chaos.

Edited by chilli
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'The Book of Lies' - Aliester Crowley

{Kappa-Epsilon-Alpha-Lambda-Eta Iota-Sigma}

THE STAG-BEETLE

Death implies change and individuality if thou be

THAT which hath no person, which is beyond the

changing, even beyond changelessness, what hast

thou to do with death?

The birth of individuality is ecstasy; so also is its

death.

In love the individuality is slain; who loves not love?

Love death therefore, and long eagerly for it.

Die Daily.

Edited by gunfighter
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Does it hurt? notsure what that video has to do with hatred/love but is kinda funny none the less :scratchhead:

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Love is not the answer...

Love simply is....

Just as there is no such thing as cold, only heat and absence of heat,

as there is no such thing as darkness, only light and absence of light,

the same with love... there is only whats pure and the absence thereof...

Can you become the divine with hatred alone, um no, but you will not get to this point without hatred...

which is just another manifestation of source...

Wisdom = infinite, Knowledge = finite

beginning, end, repeats all over again....

the ultimate duality..

I think people who evade pain are avoiding that which wishes to set them free...

best advice I ever got was "Feel the Pain, and use it"...

The line in the middle of the yin/yang is not squiggly for no reason

being honest with onself means admitting the real root of pain as rooted in our desires

and transmuting that manifestation of source into the material experience.

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I dislike the word love, the meaning I understand has never reflected anything i've ever felt.

I live a loveless life but it is not full of hate.

I feel that these emotions are all the same thing, the same data or information and it's how we perceive that information that let's us feel differently.

At the end of the day words may be our best way of expressing ourselves and our ideas but they are totally fucking shit at it. Don't get too caught up on the words 'love' or 'hate'... just feel.

edit: defining the feeling is a distraction as you're processing as well as feeling, just feel.

Edited by Distracted
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words are essentially paint.

indeed feeling will take you places, but eventually to transmutation, cause and effect

from source to product...

You do it anyways, but the trick is to do so without attachment in order to truly be fulfilled

which is more of a "not needing" feeling rather than an accomplishment...

just like finding your passion is less about trying to want something that might lead to

nice impulses, but rather a process of discovery....

hate has its place though it resides in the realm of "extremes"... but its far worse for someone to hold in their hate

than to transmute it productively... art might be a start, music maybe or even martial arts if ur runnin that much juice lol

just hating in order to cope, however can be an expression of ones deficiencies.... and like anything extreme produces a rush

of hormones which can create an addiction which is similar to the latest memes and obsessions with fear porn on youtube and such

hate can usually be diffused by evaluating the core root of the emotion rather than it's reflection... the images and thoughts that pass through the

brain when one experiences hate...the "noise" factor of the mind... though in the contrast of this emotion, one is ever so close to recognizing pureness... the part of us that withstands all of the extremes in life... and is always available inspite of the cycles... the part that does alot more feeling than describing... its the side that lives in the now, which has already dealt with the past and quite content with the future

"The future is not what it used to be"

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you can channel anger or other negative urges into something positive and creative, that is what Freud called sublimation and is probably the most constructive thing you can do with anger.

I very much agree with that.

Also,

I was always curious, what would have happened if Sauron had whooped Middle Earth's ass and him and his mates roamed freely across the lands without fear of prejudice or repression from the Elves, Dwarves and Men.

I've wondered the same, but I think Middle Earth would just become a really boring place. It's the very presence of both the bad dudes and the good dudes at the same time that make it so interesting.

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