Sceletium for gallbladder pain

[Zen Peddler]

Ginger is reputed to be an anti inflammatory yet I get almost instant responses from it. perhaps it effects levels of substance P? either way - an interest discovery. One of the best pain reducing herbs ive ever found is lactuca virosa. that stuff is quite amazing and as a bonus it has a mild effect on mood LOL.

[Torsten]

Found some awesome youtube clips of gallbladder sonography. Got my images done today, but report not ready till tomorrow, so wanted to know what I was looking at. I think I only have a few tiny stones - up to 5mm in size. My gallbladder looks healthy otherwise [no edema or wall thickening]. However my common bilde duct is about 5mm larger than it should be, indicating blockage. There doesn't seem to be anything big enough to block it though. I like this 'learning as you go' thing ;)

 

plus 2 more in the same series.

[Torsten]

I have 4 tiny gallstones of less than 5mm which are not big enough to cause any major problem. No problem with the gallblader at all. However, the bile duct is definitely blocked and given that it is a recurring thing my doc thinks it might be a small [or even larger] gallstone sitting in the duct, periodically [every few months] falling up against the gut opening and blocking it. This causes swelling and a back up of the bile which then affects the Gb and liver, giving the same symptoms as large gallstones.

Doc says standard treatment is to get an endoscopy where they slice into the valve of the duct to let the stone out. He has suggested that such an invasive procedure maybe should be avoided especially since we have no confirmation of a stone actually being there. He has prescribed some hyoscine to relax the duct muscle and 30-50ml of olive oil every 2 hours for a few days to lubricate the duct ending. He has advised against any violent flush cures as they could cause more damage, but is happy for me to try various herbs. he reckons that if I can bear the pain I should give it up to 10 days and then decide on the procedure.

I am now free to try all the herbal cure suggestions as long as they don't interact with the hyoscine.

Funnily enough the size, location and quantity of my other gallstones makes me a perfect candidate for an olive oil flush once the current problem has resolved itself, LOL.

[Psylo]

Ok, so you have suspected gallstones and the culprit, with your pain. The test has been done, and you say:

not big enough to cause any major problem

Seems to be quite the issue.

Will you proceed with the Hulda Clarke Gall bladder cleanse, with all it's associated nastiness ? It appears to be a tough physical experience. In the name of first-hand observation, are you planning to present aggregated olive oil rocks?

[Torsten]

Ok, so you have suspected gallstones and the culprit, with your pain. The test has been done, and you say:

not big enough to cause any major problem

Seems to be quite the issue.

Well, it's a complicated situation.4.5mm stones will not cause pain in a 10mm duct and certainly should not block even a normal duct which at my age should be about 5mm. The adult duct [CBD] is flexible enough to accommodate 10mm stones without any major pain or obstcrution. Even bigger in most cases. So this is where we have a problem. There is no evidence of a bigger stone either in the Gb or in the duct itself. 5mm stones are very hard to find, so it would probably take 20 minutes of ultrasounding just the duct to come up with some sort of confidence of presence of absence. The reliability of this is so low that the doctor advised against it. he said the only way to be sure is to have a CT scan, but while he offered it, he also advised against it for exposure reasons. he would actually prefer me to have the endoscopy so that the condition of the duct sphincter can be assessed visually - even if there is no stone.

The presence of a stone is still a big IF, but it is the most plausible explanation. The recurrence however makes it even more tricky because small stones don't usually get caught in the CBD.

Will you proceed with the Hulda Clarke Gall bladder cleanse, with all it's associated nastiness ? It appears to be a tough physical experience. In the name of first-hand observation, are you planning to present aggregated olive oil rocks?

I have not decided yet whether to do it. It's not the nastiness that bothers me but whether there is a point. At $200 per scan I have to limit the number of scans I want to get done. So i was thinking of doing ALL the recommended treatments and then doing another ultrasound. if the stones are still there then we know they are all bunk. But if the stones are gone then I won't know which one was successfull. I have no intentions of collecting the fake stones [unless you want some ], but because of the aforementioned reason I am tempted to try and recover real stones. ie if I do the flush first and it does not produce any real stones, but after further treatments my final scan is clear then I know it was one of the other treatments and not the flush that was effective. Now that I know what size and number to look out for it should be easy. failing that, apparently the fake stones melt at just over 40C ;)

[devance]

http://www.tropilab.com/shatterst.html

http://www.tropilab.com/black-cat.html

http://www.tropilab.com/medsupp.html

This herb which is cheap is a

http://www.tropilab.com/bulklist.html

[smooth muscle is responsible for the contractility of hollow organs, such as blood vessels, the gastrointestinal tract, the bladder, or the uterus. Its structure differs ...

www.uic.edu/classes/phyb/phyb516/smoothmuscleu3.htm - Cached - Similar

gut contractor so squeezes the gall stones out without surgery.

I had all my life from 16 teen so it works.

[2meke]

I read in one of the pdf's on zellys post that magnetised water breaks them down.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29994

[devance]

Using mesembs and the herb Chanca piedra, has a effect of of shitting, peeing, salivating, all the same time and not pleasant, for 20 minutes.

So a warning there is a bad or super interaction as a smooth mucle stimulator.

[Torsten]

Just an update on what can happen when living with gall stones.

I thought I was lucky to only have small gall stones as I figured 4mm stones can easily pass through a 7mm duct. well turns out they indeed can. But not all the way. At the end of the bile duct is a little sphincter muscle that stops food & bacteria from getting into the bile duct. The opening here is smaller than the duct itself. In my case just a little bit smaller than 4mm. So my small gall stones move all the way through the bile duct and then get stuck at the end. Turns out this is one of the most dangerous outcomes of all. Blockages anywhere else will inflame the gallbladder and possibly the liver. The resulting jaundice is a good warnign sign. But if the blockage is right at the end then the bile will back up into the pancreas. It can do this even before affecting the liver. The bile can digest the pancreatic tissue which can lead to lifelong diabetes or death.

I had another stone attack 2 weeks ago and because i had learnt how to manage the pain did not see a doc [as he can't do anything anyway]. Eventually the pain got too bad and I figured I needed opiates so went to see the doc. By this time I was also slightly jaundiced. Blood tests showed that I had pancreatitis and hepatitis from the bile blockage. Luckily the next day the stone shifted and the bile drained. A week later I still have hepatitis and pancreatitis. So in a few days I am going to have my gall bladder removed and hopefully my liver and pancreas will recover quickly. This should serve as a warning to anyone considering delaying surgery. If I had selfmedicated with opiates [as many people do] the outcome might have been quite dire.

I just wanted to update this because I know I suggested earlier that small stones are probably the best to treat via natural methods. As it happens they are the most dangerous to treat yourself and most dangerous to delay surgery on.

[Amazonian]

So in a few days I am going to have my gall bladder removed and hopefully my liver and pancreas will recover quickly.

 

You'll do fine big guy.

I bet all the forum hassles in the last week didn't help either.

Anyway...positive vibes.

[Torsten]

Thanks Amaz. I'm not worried about the surgery. It's actually the inconvenience to my schedule and the post-anesthesia nausea that weighs most on my mind. Oh, and that my surgeon of choice operates in a religious hospital .

I just wanted to make sure no one follows my earlier advice of taking small stones more lightly than big ones as the reverse is actually the case. Everyone I know who has had their gallbladder removed says the only regret they have is that they didn't do it sooner.

as for the forum drama, I just wanted to make sure it was all up and stable before I go to hospital. I made it well in time so not stressed. With a bit of luck and apoth's brilliance it's almost 100% there.

[whitewind]

Torsten good luck with the surgery and getting better. My uncle had his gallbladder out years ago and the only problems he has "suffered" since is an inability to overindulge in whipped cream and chocolate, so unless you are a hopeless chocolate addict or something, then it'll be just fine! Sorry you had to deal with the forums while you feel so shit too.