Bridgeman Posted October 22, 2011 Hi Ive searched the forums and havent found any specific info on this topic obviously because of the legalities of the use of ayauasca in australia. However if anyone does know and is willing to share how i can become involved in these ceremonies that follow traditional shaman ceremonies please pm me thankyou 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ErraneousHerbalist Posted October 22, 2011 Wouldn't have a clue due to it's illegality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheather Posted October 22, 2011 You make a remarkably obvious seeker of pseudo-condemning knowledge. I don't know if many members will be willing to risk their necks on the possibilty that you are genuine and safe to talk to. You have six posts to your name so far, how would they know you're not a cop looking for an easy catch or somesuch? I think you'd need to be a regular at least for someone to be willing to divulge such information, that is, if they knew of anything like that. I'm sure nobody on this forum has dealings with such an illegal substance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quarterflesh Posted October 22, 2011 i dont think anyone wants to end up in jail like that fella from england that was posted just the other day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
folias Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) c'mon guys, lay off the fearful propoganda and get real here. This is just a guy asking an honest question. Is "Ayahuasca" illegal in Australia?... we don't really knoow, it is a legal grey area. Torsten may well come and say 1 litre will put you in jail for 40 years because that is 10 kilograms of DMT, but that is not quite incorrect until someone goes down for 40 years. Truth is, people are just trying to do their job, and I doubt the taxpayers are keen on jailing "Ayahausca wankers" anyway. Yes, there are people doing ceremonies in Australia. All of them are rather militant and believe strongly that the plants are powerful healing and transformational agents, not drugs of abuse. Therefore their usage is inherently legitimate and although beaurocratic governments around the world may have contrabanded certain compounds, the validity or meaning of these laws is rendered illegitamine in the face of hundreds of people's positive, life changing experiences. There has been one court case in Australia where a man was charged with possession of ayahuasca, and eventually the judge apologised to him and no conviction was recorded. This represents something of a common sense approach we can often (not always) expect from Australian courts and law enforcement. Julian. Edited October 22, 2011 by folias 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Cady Posted October 22, 2011 how traditional could it be if were to be in Australia? those plants aren't native to oz, a positive on the other hand is your local aussie shaman wouldn't see you as a tourist and may or may not look after you a bit better. I'm sure if you smoke enough of the right pole around here you'll get you're answer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheather Posted October 22, 2011 Is "Ayahuasca" illegal in Australia?... we don't really knoow, it is a legal grey area. Torsten may well come and say 1 litre will put you in jail for 40 years because that is 10 kilograms of DMT, but that is not quite incorrect until someone goes down for 40 years. MFW 1 litre of ayahuasca contains 10 kilograms of DMT. I can hardly see it as fearful propaganda. He's asking for specific information about how to become a part of ceremonies involvving copious amounts of an illegal substance. It is illegal due to DMT in its composition, and denying knowledge about it is definitely a valid response when asked from someone who has shown no reason to be trustworthy. I would call it more a healthy dose of cynicism. Therefore their usage is inherently legitimate How do you determine legitimacy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bridgeman Posted October 22, 2011 I understand your view point Sheather but for everyone's piece of mind im not. I strongly agree that they are sacred healing plants and not drugs of abuse as folias mentioned. My opinion of the law regarding DMT/Hamaline container plants acts only as a pre-cautionary measure and probably will not be enforced heavily if at all unless theres money and other issues that often relate to a substance of abuse. Psychadelics are not known as a substance of abuse, for example LSD,shrooms e.t.c. are not addictive or "money making substances". Even though these unique plants aren't native to Australia, to clarify what I mean by Traditional ceremony I refer to the set and setting of what takes place during the ritual/ceremony including diet, preparation, the initiation e.t.c. These Shamans have been doing these ceremonies for a long time and they know what they are doing, so it makes sense to learn from them and make the journey the way they have. Andrew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foo Posted October 22, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/02/shaman-jailed-over-hallucinogenic-ayahuasca even if you had 5000 posts i dont know if youd get the responce your looking for. Maybe if you invest some time into meeting poeple you might learn things far greater then the illeagle practice of DMT. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
folias Posted October 22, 2011 How do you determine legitimacy? Well, it has already been determined in Peru and Brazil, that human usage of Ayahuasca is legitimate. Those who use it, regard it as a medicine for the mind, body and soul. THAT is legitimate. Julian. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
folias Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Problem with Aziz, it seem is that his ego got out of control, and he started advertising in local papers. http://www.azizshamanism.com/ and he comes off as a total nutter, even to most Ayahuasca drinkers I would say! This happened with the people in Spain too, with them handing out leaflets for their sessions. Essentially, we have already had an Aziz like case in Australia, and the guy got off like I said. People said that he got busted because he was starting to give interviews with large publications with an international audience. People are more "militant" here and often work together. I really doubt the authorities are so keen to raise our ire. Aziz was an fringe outsider, who had his own karma it seems. But unfortunately, ignorance won and his court case set a precedence in the UK, which is probably a good thing, as likely only the brave and authentic will persist in doing ayahuasca circles there. It was really getting out of hand for a long time there... Edited October 22, 2011 by folias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted October 22, 2011 Problem with Aziz, it seem is that his ego got out of control, and he started advertising in local papers. This happened with the people in Spain too, with them handing out leaflets for their sessions. That's full on. Next they'll be doing something completely mental like discussing it on a public ethnobotany forum...or PMing some random guy with 7 posts about it and sending him an invite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted October 22, 2011 MFW 1 litre of ayahuasca contains 10 kilograms of DMT. I think he meant to say 1 kg of DMT. If you get busted with 1 gram of cocaine cut with 999 grams of sugar, you get charged/convicted for possession of a kilo of cocaine. The weight of the preparation is counted when calculating drug quantities in australia. It's possible that they might make an exception for something like ayahuasca if they felt that a jury was unlike to convict because it sounds absurd to count the water, but I certainly wouldn't bet on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted October 23, 2011 after participating in aya ceremonys under self-professed aussie shaman, and the santo daime church, i really have to say that i find self-prepared and administered aya the most personal value. beware of charlatans. some assholes out there will charge you 500 dollars for a weak-ass dose. someone has said it before here that aya comes with an instruction manual. find the materials and brew for yourself, and again, beware of people charging you (big) money. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Presidente Hillbillios Posted October 23, 2011 thats a very good point incog, although there are some propper people out there that can do a good job of it. Or so i hear. Still doesnt feel right to me to call them shaman, but some seem pretty damn close Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) I think your best bet is to save your coin and set off on a trip to Peru if you want a traditional ceremony. What better set and setting then the amazon jungle if you want traditional. I have to agree with Incognito that preparing your own brew and even growing your own materials can be a very rewarding experience as you take from it what you are willing to give. And you have always got the vine to guide you. She is the teacher after all and you've only yourself to learn. Edited October 23, 2011 by rahli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
folias Posted October 23, 2011 I agree, that the best way to experience Ayahuasca, is to brew it up yourself. However, most people are not going to be able to get that together too easily. Charlatans abound because people have such high expectations of their "shaman". Peru is overstated as being authentic. I've been there a couple of times and its a tricky paradigm to say the least. Bridgeman is not a narc. The narcs have over 1000 posts to their name He is a genuine guy wanting information which is fair enough, I don't think its fair or nice, to get all narky with him here. I can't see the point in bringing forth reactionary cynicism in response to unreasonable levels of control exerted by "laws" which are supposed to be for our own good. Well, I know what is in my own good and the good of others :-) It is just beaurocratic machinery with no element of reasonable human judgement that says otherwise... whether its actually enforced, lets see. And then we can fight it. Why give it all so much power and just assume the textbook? I think it is really important to stand up for what you believe in. I've always been on that track. I think, to keep contemplating the lunacy of these "laws" is to become a lunatic. that is no essential protection from them. It is only becoming fearful and like "them", which defeats the purpose of existing in the first place I would have thought! Julian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted October 23, 2011 You seem to be forgetting that this forum has rules. The OP was asking for others to incriminate themselves, and many responses in this thread include suggestions that the OP do something which is illegal in this country. This is all against the forum rules. Now, you can get on your high horse about how the laws are shit and we shouldn't give them any credence by being slaves to them, but what gives you the right to decide that the forum rules don't need to be followed? The reasons for the rules against incriminating oneself and others have been discussed over and over again. You may not agree with the rules, but I don't think it's okay to criticise people for being a little critical or cynical. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
folias Posted October 23, 2011 Ballzac, Sorry, but all this guy was asking was for some info, for someone to PM him regarding ceremonies in Australia, not for anyone to publically incriminate themselves. And then he gets attacked and accused of being a narc, and now you are suggesting it is inappropriate I question the kind of attitude you guys have? As stated, I do not believe Ayahuasca can be considered "illegal" in this country, until there are court cases which definitively decide what is in fact, a legal grey area in this country. And I do not feel it is helpful for you or anyone else to decide that prematurely. The whole idea that a plant medicine as Ayahuasca could be "illegal" is completely silly to me and so, sorry, no I'm not going to take that concept seriously. Julian. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkSpark Posted October 23, 2011 Problem with Aziz, it seem is that his ego got out of control, and he started advertising in local papers. http://www.azizshamanism.com/ and he comes off as a total nutter, even to most Ayahuasca drinkers I would say! One of his new spiritual gifts is the ability to materialise gifts from the spirit world. These were at first Dragon Pearls and items from the faerie realm' date=' but this gift too has evolved, so he now materialises gifts directly from the gods, such as Crystal Yantras.[/quote'] Is he for real ? materialize gifts from the spirit world ? Directly from the gods. No wonder people view shamanism with scepticism when people are claiming to be able to materialize gifts from the "faerie realm" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted October 24, 2011 julian i would like to hear u explain ur statement that members with over 1000 posts are narcs. thats a big call, and worthy of an explanation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted October 24, 2011 damn it your onto me. my dreams of becoming a d are shattered Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
folias Posted October 24, 2011 >julian i would like to hear u explain ur statement that members with over 1000 posts are narcs. Look, if its your job to be a narc, you are going to be a "pro" about it and look the part. *waves at SAB's neighbourhood narcs* There are quite a people out there, employed by the government of Australia, whose full time job it is to monitor forums like this. And don't think I'm going to tell you how I know this! But they are just honest, hardworking people, like you or me, trying to make a crust. We shouldn't hate them or even be paranoid about them... what reason would we have to be paranoid at all? Julian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psylo Posted October 24, 2011 And don't think I'm going to tell you how I know this! ^^^ 'nuther narc We need a narc emoticon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
