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planthelper

heimia salicifolia preparation

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hi!

i'm trying to work out a tek on how to ferment heimia.
i can't exactly remeber what i did last time with the material, so this time i will writte it down here.

so far, i have harverested the material, and i plan to do as followes.

remove the thicker stems, than place the material, into a glassbowl and pour a little bit of boiling hot water over it. than it's placed into the full sun, and sealed with some glad wrap.

after a few day's (one might add more water over time, but just a little) the whole thing has turned into a soup, which now can get filtered thru a sieve.
than you pour this "goo" onto a plate and let it dry a bit, now it's ready for use.

sometimes, after drying out the goo for a long time, white crystalls will percipitate out of the resin.

i have only very little personel experience with heimia, but yeah maybe, a negative side effect of heimia is to loose your musical pitch for a while??!

here is a pic of my last heimia extraction:

post-70-0-45428400-1316477514_thumb.jpg

Edited by planthelper
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That's great. Thanks PH for the tek. My Heimia is really starting to bush out this spring. Looking forward to giving it a crack.

Would there be any benefit/draw back to drying the herb out before brewing it up in the bowl?

What, then, do you do with the "goo"? Smoke? Dry, powder and snuff?

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the idea, to do it this way originated from tst tantra, but i could never find a proper tek, and maybe there has never been one posted anyway.

tantra started out with heap fermentation, and claimed that (leave) material which has only been "dried out" was not "activated" and much weaker strengh wise.

so, normal dried leave is held in much lesser regard, but i'm sure this ought to not stopp you from experimenting with "plain dried heimia".

the goo, gets rolled in pastils (again a methode invented by tantra) and than put into the mouth and left there till the pastill has melted.

my own heimia preparation, goes today into day two:

i added only about 1/4 of the total volume of the herb in water, and it turned slighly brown already.

i rotated the material in the bowl this morning, and will rotate/stir even more over the next periode, and once the material turned slushy, i plan to macerate it once in a while.

i think this process might not work aswell with already dried out material.

Edited by planthelper

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i would not use the gladwrap or any cover.exposure to the air seems to help the process and from keeping half treated leaf indoors there appears to be some kind of gas release going on,enough to fill half a house with a sweet smell...

t s t .

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thx for the info about not covering up the vessel.

at the second day, i placed the bowl overnight into the freezer compartment, so to break down more the cellstructure.

than, next morning back into the sun, the bowl gets quite hot, as it's placed on top of some black material.

the water has turned into a nice brown color now, and it's been a week now since the preparation started.

next time, i should seperate the material into two groups, one to be prepared just in the sun, the other one prepared by boiling.

my guess is the former's yield will be low, but the quality will be better.

boiling the herb might extract some unwanted materials aswell.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimia_salicifolia

It is a muscle relaxor and maybe a tranquilier and easy to raise [weed].

The interesting is that the weed leaves after little maceration become a type of Gelatin after 4 hours so not need for exposure to sunlight..

But why not exposure to sunlight like sun tea maybe a different way..

http://www.herbalfire.com/heimia-salicifolia-sinicuichi-p-51.html

Edited by devance

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What volume of heimia did you start with and what would you say is the least you would use?

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hi!

update.

instead, of using glad wrap to seal the glass bowl, i did in fact, use a glass plate, which did not fit airtight, but it helped against contamination of the material.

i think, it's best to re writte this tek.

1, i harverested the material from 7 individual plants, which are around knee hight tall.

there was not a lot of rain prior, so there was not a lot of growth to be harverested.

regardless, the material taken from the plants, did by fresh volume fill a 20l bucket, but once further processed, it did fill the glass bowl almost to the top.

i found the process of stripping the leaves off the branches very labour intensive,

so i did not overdo this step. there are still a lot of branches with this material, but it very greatly has reduced in size by now.

the traditional methode ask's for letting the leaves wilt a bit before processing, or even to dry them, but i did not do that. but please add this step if you feel it's very important.

place material into glassbowl, and add a 1/4 of the herb volume of hot tank water.

either place a loose fitting see thru glass dish as cover or don't use a cover. place the vessel in a very sunny spot.

2, after one day in the sun, put the bowl into the freezer compartment over night, to help to make the material more mushy (breaking the cell walls).

rotate the material once or twice every day.

3, after a week or so, seperate the herb from the liquid, the fact we left some fine twigs with the material, helps us now to squeeze most of the juice out of it.

4, filter the juice. cut the top off a 2l softdrink bottle, the top is your filter.

place rolled up toilettpaper into the opening. place on top of your bottom halve, pour liquid into funnel.

5, pour the filtered juice on a clean plate, to dry out.

once the resin has dried up a bit, you can roll it into small pastilles, which arer consumed sublingual.

i think the beauty of this preparation, lies within it's simplicety.

and because we don't use a grinder or use very strong measures of extraction, the material you get, seems to be of good quality, meaning only the good stuff get's removed.

i mean, the liquid you get after filtering can be of a beautyfull honey color, which i hope indicates, that we removed most of the wanted, without moving a lot of the gunk aswell.

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branches virtually without leaves are apparently sold for medicinal purposes in mexico,pic in raetsch.so i usually add them when i am brewing.

t s t .

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one thing i forgot to mention, i store the liquid in the fridge, till i have used it all up by evaporating.

evaporatig can take a long time, cold storage of the "honey water" avoids contamination!

i think, the very same is not very susceptible, to fungi growing on to of the broth, but it's always good to be on the safe side. nothing is worse than, when you have to throw away an organic preparation, because of those issues.

when i let the material evaporate, i don't fill up the plate a lot, and i wait till all has dried up before i decant again.

this proces mimic's recrystallisation...

today, i noticed some crystalline structures on top of the plate! :drool2:

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so is Cryogenine (vertine) the main active alkloid in Heimia??? This confuses me as vertine is not supposed to be soluble in water???

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so is Cryogenine (vertine) the main active alkloid in Heimia??? This confuses me as vertine is not supposed to be soluble in water???

hmm, how do i say that...

i started working with heimia because i had the intuion that, just using only water with this material will be very interressting.

i have a lot of hands on experience with plant preparations, but not realy a big chemical understanding.

that a compounds solubilety is low in a certain solvent, doesn't necessarely mean it will not be a reasonable solvent to work with. you chemist's would know that, for example for re crystalisations, the most soluble solvent is rather avoided, because a rather a solvent with lower solubilety, will do a cleaner and better job.

same, or similar seems to be the case here.

i made my own observations about the solubilety of some of those heimia compounds, as followes. and i will have pictures soon for this!

anyway, so i have the plate of brown resin, which displays some "dentritic crystals" on the surface. next i place 3 drops of tank water, at 3 different locations, right onto the crystall formation, and wait. next day the water drop had evaporated, and reveals an undamaged crystall!! but the brown gunk embedding the dentritious structure, had been disolved to some degree.

this observation, shows the x talline material is not very water soluble, but only water was used in the extraction!!!

i have hopes, to be able to clean those crystalls, by using just water again.

once i got nice crystall material using only water, i want to know what those people, which always say all "chemical extractions are bad".

in other words, they always say, only natural, only water, but that would mean, they would have to not object to crytalls made by using only water.

if you can make coke, by just using water, would that be ok to use, for you chemical haters or not?

anyway, i hope that this type of "solar water extraction/sublimination" methode i develope here, can be used aswell for a variety of other materials.

....one more thing, in the future people will copy this idea of mine, and make them look there own....

Edited by planthelper

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cool! After doing some more research i found out that it is only unsoluble in water in its freebase form???

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i mucked around a bit with the plate, and my hopes are up for being able to use just water again, to clean the material up, even a bit further.

i have applied a bit more water onto the plate, and than after a few seconds held the plate verticly, to let the water run off the worked on area. and to my amazement, it dissolved the gunk, but not so much the dentrite. the spot where the 3 or so drops of water, were allowed to dry up (the plate get's held only for seconds verticly, and than just placed with a small incline so the water / gunk mixture cant run back to the area where you placed the drops).

i'm hopefull that, once i get more a feeling for this process, it could lead to quite a paradoxical finding, water can be used to extract and to clean up the material.

i just get exited experimenting like this, and i would have never thought, that you can get crystalls, by just using rain water.

i got many ideas about this work, and i mention them here just for my own brainstorm.

don't shred the starting material, leaving preparations to settle out sediment (different compounds will be suspended in different levels!!), use lime to crash out compounds, suspended in water, cleaning the plate, using water, using different temperatures, as means of manipulation, expand this technic, to other materials ( organic changa, were legal).

worx in progress....

late edit, added pic.

here you can see how a drop of water, re disolved the brown gunk, faster than the dentrites!!! note the "running drop of gunk" and the area where he came from looks now a bit more cleaned up.post-70-0-65892100-1319589287_thumb.jpg

Edited by planthelper
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now, i got the pic's!

i will upload them, in given time, but here is what i am sooo proud of, crystalls produced by only using water!!!!post-70-0-80517500-1319587235_thumb.jpg :drool2:

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1, harvesting.

post-70-0-49395100-1319587925_thumb.jpg

2, into the bowl, after removing only the thick stems.post-70-0-95036100-1319588075_thumb.jpg

3,after one or two day's in the sun.

post-70-0-16226800-1319588220_thumb.jpg

4, back into the sun, after a night in the freezer.post-70-0-67624300-1319588349_thumb.jpg

5, after a few day's, the water get's, honeycolored!

post-70-0-09247200-1319588494_thumb.jpg

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6, filter the liquid, note the spent shamans plug in the foreground.

note aswell the lighter color of the filtrate.

post-70-0-38859200-1319588675_thumb.jpg

7,pour fitered material on a plate, and wait for the crystalls.

post-70-0-71622800-1319588911_thumb.jpg

for the crytalls, look post #16! :drool2:

Edited by planthelper

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PH, you're my hero! :worship: :worship:

Very impressive!

I have a few idiotic questions, if I may:

a- Where are you adding the lime, and in what quantities?

b- I worry about contams in a bowl of plant water sitting outside all week. Is this a justified fear? Would the freeze evap be sufficient to kill bacterial/mould contams?

c- Have you bioassayed?!

Thanks for sharing. You're a legend.

Edited by Marcel

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Great tek and pics, cheers mate.

My thinking on this issue of leaving the liquid open to the air is the same method and reason many commonly available beverages originally did the same thing.

BTW I'm talking about fermented beverages, there are many. Basically all methods of producing fermented beverages used natural yeasts freely available in the air we breathe.

These days most fermentable liquid is intentionally mixed with a single yeast strain especially chosen for the job.

I'm wondering whether some experimentation with several strains chosen for other fermentation might be worth a try.

Just my two cents worth and I appreciate the thread as the catalyst for a new series of experiments.

I'd be keen to hear what others try.

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I have been trying to figure out a really good tek for this for a little while now.

After reading from this page I have figured out one or two possible extraction methods, also worth noting this text says that Cryogenine is not water soluble.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/~auxin/heimia.html#Chemical%20Properties%20of%20Selected%20Alkaloids

I would just ferment the plant material then extract with methanol and Dichloromethane discarding the plant material after a few hours of soaking I guess, then seperate and distill of the DCM and evaporate the Methanol.

However if you do not want to distill anything you could just use methanol and evaporate the only difference would be you wouldn't get the Lythrine (don't know whether that would even make a difference or not).

I have never tried this at all but my friend has some Hemia plants and this is what I have devised for when they are ready.

Hope that helps.

Edited by Nexuswalker
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PH, you're my hero! :worship: :worship:

Very impressive!

I have a few idiotic questions, if I may:

a- Where are you adding the lime, and in what quantities?

b- I worry about contams in a bowl of plant water sitting outside all week. Is this a justified fear? Would the freeze evap be sufficient to kill bacterial/mould contams?

c- Have you bioassayed?!

Thanks for sharing. You're a legend.

a, i never added any lime, in this preparation, only a little bit of water, NOTHING ELSE.

the remark about lime, is only included in the brain storm list, maybe one should include citric aswell.

b, with the glasslid on top, slightly ajar, not many contams will enter, over night, you can put the bowl indoors, and saver... i never saw any contams yet, i think that stuff must be anti fungal.

c, i have used an older batch a few times, but this one, or any heimia bioessay might have to wait, because i don't like mixing too many things at the same time.

what i do currently with the material, as follows:

i have re disolved it in water again, with very low viscosity.

than put the goo into a small glass, and wait maybe a day or two.

than, very, very carefully add a few drops of water, using a small pipette.

you don't want to disturbe the goo's surface at all!

just carefully add very little water, and wait.

the goo and the water, should stay in seperate layers, if you loose the interface, than the experiment already failed.

after a day or so, carefully remove the top layer and evaporate, maybe this would result into a cleaner product, maybe even the crystalls would get better, but this is still only an idea, chances are, it might not work.

nexwa, this thread tries to focus on water only extractions!

Edited by planthelper

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I have been trying to figure out a really good tek for this for a little while now.

After reading from this page I have figured out one or two possible extraction methods, also worth noting this text says that Cryogenine is not water soluble.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/~auxin/heimia.html#Chemical%20Properties%20of%20Selected%20Alkaloids

I would just ferment the plant material then extract with methanol and Dichloromethane discarding the plant material after a few hours of soaking I guess, then seperate and distill of the DCM and evaporate the Methanol.

However if you do not want to distill anything you could just use methanol and evaporate the only difference would be you wouldn't get the Lythrine (don't know whether that would even make a difference or not).

Hope that helps.

have you read my tek, no you haven't.

have you read the replies, no you haven't.

doe's a chemical extration help, in a water only extraction thread, no i don't think so.

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