What's the better stock??

[Goldtop]

Hey dudes, im just wondering what is the better grafting stock, pachanoi or peruvian torch? if there is a difference or not??

thanks in advance

[Bongchitis]

Hey stewbert,

I would go with the one with the smallest spines as this make it alot easier to work with. I use big fat scops for grafting.

Cheers.

[shortly]

I prefer bridges, mainly because they are a little more resistant to rot than both pach & peruvians have been for me.

Edited September 16, 2011 by shortly

[naja naja]

I prefer pach's as the little spines enable me too hook my stockings on for a firm graft, whereas the scop wouldn't allow for this at all. My scopXbridgesii also work well as the spines are about same length as pach spines. My recommendation is watever has best resistance to rot,pests and disease's in your garden/area and also grows faster than others or atleast a fast growing stock, then watever u have most of available too u. I find I use watever I can spare or bare to sacrifice.

Edited September 16, 2011 by naja naja

[solomon]

Pach, because it won't stab me and I value my peruvians more.

Kada has a comparison of grafting stocks on his website

[Evil Genius]

I heard some people say Trichocereus Candicans is the best grafting Trich. Cant really compare it to pach, Peru or Bridgesii though as i never grafted on Candicans. Have a few seedlings of them in the making though. Backeberg used to recommend Pachanoi as a stock because of the spines. And i tend to agree. Bridgesii is capable of taking more drought so i think Shortly is onto something here. Scops could be nice too because of the spines. bye EG

[Goldtop]

Thanks for tha info fellas, ill try one on my bridgesii, a few on the pachanois and ill just leave my lil perus alone

appreciate it dudes, cheers

[Hellonasty]

I use anything I can get my hands on

I really don't think there is a great deal of difference between them, however, no one mentioned Spachianus which for me gives the fastest growth rate and is probably the best Tricho stock. That being said I rarely use it because it is a massive pain to deal with whilst grafting (spines) and then once it takes, the Spach will shoot heaps and heaps of pups. If you have any just lying around I would give it a go you will be surprised how good it is.

[kadakuda]

Indeed you are so right. the best stock to use is the stock you have handy I like some forms of pach better as well simply due to spines. i hate spines!

[Goldtop]

Just bought a spachianus so ill have another stock to compare tha growth rates

[mutant]

I think a peruvianus might be slower or something. Plus they don't pup as much as pachanois and bridgesiis, so you can't make stock as fast as with other more pupping species. A cuzcoensis would be nice to try, it would probably give good rate of growth.

but yeah, less spines = more practical and relaxed grafting, and no despining.

I am mostly a selinicereus type of guy, I haven't grafted much on trichos, probably because I love them so much to cut them. I am keeping some thinner kk339 pachanoi for grafts lately though, as they seem promising and they are also handsome stock

[Philocacti]

i prefer coszcoensis, and stenocereus

but i havent tried other stocks, except for myrtillo and somehow i dont like it that much

[Gunter]

i've use the pachanot and a cuzco 242, both are just ok as stocks, they work fine but pup a great deal

i've taken to grafting the scion on, then after it takes cutting the areoles off of the stem to about 6-8 inches down on the stock,

then when those heal and callus over i cut the stock again so it has no areoles at all, the only ones left are on the scion.

Then i just let the graft root and then plant it up as i would any cactus, then the pupping thing is no longer an issue. i also like to have less stock, sort of hiding it in the soil and leaving only a little of it visible, i am using the stocks primarily as root stocks in this way.

[Hellonasty]

Archaea, that sounds like more work than just cutting the pups of as they form that being said I use a similar method for some of my plants where I bury almost the entire stock to give a nice aesthetic appearance.

[kadakuda]

If you have the time, there is a lot to be said for cutting out areoles...its just way better all around...but slow to do.

[Hellonasty]

I have noted many of the Thai collectors cut each areole individually from their Hylocereus grafts. The only issue I have found is making sure you cut just deep enough or occasionally the areole will reform.

Do you find this will speed up Growth Kada? I guess if the plant is not using energy forming pups it may increase scion growth.

[kadakuda]

Ya, it speeds things up quite a lot. More in the way that there is really only one way for things to happen, so there is no, or almost no, confusion going on within. One breeder i know hires a kid specifically to prep his hylocereus stock. its time consuming for sure but with things like hylocereus you can make it happen very fast if you plan it out right.

[Hellonasty]

Interesting, cheers for that.

[2meke]

sorry to go off on a tangent but this might be usefull to someone. ive tryed grafting on fat pachnoi sections with the theory of the bigger the stock the faster the growth and had little success. but now i have alot better success rate by rooting a fat section and letting it pup and grafting onto the pup wen it gets to the right size.

i'm probly just stating the obvious for alot of people but i can see a good increase in growth rate when doing this compared to using a skinny pach or myrtl of the same hight.

scion in this case is el caespitosa.

Edited September 20, 2011 by 2meke

[2meke]

oops double post

Edited September 20, 2011 by 2meke

[Goldtop]

sorry to go off on a tangent but this might be usefull to someone. ive tryed grafting on fat pachnoi sections with the theory of the bigger the stock the faster the growth and had little success. but now i have alot better success rate by rooting a fat section and letting it pup and grafting onto the pup wen it gets to the right size.

i'm probly just stating the obvious for alot of people but i can see a good increase in growth rate when doing this compared to using a skinny pach or myrtl of the same hight.

scion in this case is el caespitosa.

 

Thanks for tha info dude, i was gonna graft to fat cutting but now ill wait till it pups ;)

[mutant]

^^^

that's probably because fresh pups are new tissue, ideal for grafting. Now tips, you need some experience to figure out where o cut. I like grafting in pupps, they are usually less in diameter and you probably can root the pup alone some time in the future, hiding the stock.

about all areole removing, I suppose you guys do it upfront, huh?

thanks for tips

[Philocacti]

Thanks for tha info dude, i was gonna graft to fat cutting but now ill wait till it pups ;)

 

i believe the girth of the stock and the speed of growth (same individual stock) are independent factors. However, you can graft bigger scion on a fatter stocks.

[2meke]

i'm not so much saying its the girth thats important, more about surface area of stock thats photosynthesising.. if the stock is around 5cm across i leave it around a foot long but if fatter like 10cm i'll cut it around 6".

i'm not saying this is a fact either, just what ive noticed in the short time ive been propagating....

the biggest difference in growth i notice is using a newly rooted stock is alot slower than using a well rooted stock, for the first season or so anyway...sorry if im stating the obvious again but someone might find it usefull.

and yeah i only wish i had the balls to hack up my big lophs to try grafting them but theyre so damn precious. i'm just using this method for little pups

[Gunter]

i don't remove the areoles until after the graft takes

then i remove them, cut the stock short and then re-root.

I don't want the rootstock to have much photosynthetic surface, for me it is more ideal if it is hidden beneath the scion.