Marcel Posted August 18, 2011 Ok, grafting doesn't suck, but I sure suck at grafting. I've just had my 6th graft fail. I know that's not a great deal, but I was enjoying my winning streak with all things cactus and succulent. I followed Teo's guide to the letter... I quit. Eh. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bush Turkey Posted August 18, 2011 maybe you are trying too hard??? be rough and just whack it on. Dont be scared to put more pressure on it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) are u using peres? ive quit peres for life. ive found using trichs and one year old seedlings a winner. never am i murdering newborn babies on peres again.i think its a case of finding what works right for you. i sucked at grafting, even at tafe under the watchful eye and guidance of a teacher. he always used to say " some people can, some cant, just how it is" i think he just said that to make me feel a little better. i was lucky to get a pass in grafting Edited August 18, 2011 by incognito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel Posted August 18, 2011 Yeah, I'm using peres. The seedlings are 3 months+. Maybe I just ain't got It. I don't know what it is. Why does god hate me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cactuscarl Posted August 18, 2011 6 is that all I've killed like 20 on peres and like 5 on trichocereus. The most annoying thing is most of my trial ones worked with cactus i don't really have any interest in and all the ones i like seem to die but not giving up just going to keep going till I've got it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bongchitis Posted August 18, 2011 Peres never worked for me. Osmotic pressure always seemed to pop the graft off irrespective of hydration levels and I found it hard to apply well directed pressure to such a small scion and base. As above, Trichs and small pups/1yo seedlings seem the best. I use T.Scopulicola as it has a tight vascular ring and you can pretty much position the scion and you are away. Also the strain i use is very robust and you can graft almost anything to it. Some tips i found to help: > Keep the pressure on the graft for at least 2 weeks > Pre cut the trich the week before so the flesh receedes/shrinks, and then shave off what you need to to get new flesh at grafting time > Keep the graft in as humid an environment as you can for 2 weeks after pressure released > Keep the graft out of the direct sun for several weeks post humidity chamber and signs of growth are present > chopped up stockings are excellent at securing grafts > Don't drink and graft Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khala Posted August 18, 2011 I don't understand the difficulties with grafting? I have never had a failed graft :S Maybe grafting Lophs is harder... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel Posted August 18, 2011 Maybe grafting Lophs is harder... Wait... You can graft something other than lophs?!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel Posted August 18, 2011 Bongchitis: I think it's always a matter of osmotic pressure popping the graft off for me too. I've got pretty limited Trich stock at the moment, but there's shitload of Cereus I could use. Anyone using Cereus for Loph grafts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naja naja Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) do u guys provide high humidity for the following week or two? I've never experienced osmotic pressure before. I use a rubber maid tub with no water in bottom, soil will provide enough humdity and plant respiration. Hell, i've even grafted onto unrooted pere's and potted the pere's up to root and they all worked, just messy wedge style grafts of 1 yo seedling trichs, never had a asingle one fail. Maybe try using younger sedlings, like 1-2minths P.s. this was under 400 w HPS and 18/6 light regime. Edited August 18, 2011 by naja naja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) I feel your pain, Marcel. Pressure is the key. And cutting off the Edges as well as using clean tools. If you follow that and use a good and accepting grafting stock, you´ll soon have success. bye Eg edit: I use Cereus a lot. And if the graft succeeds, they grow like crazy. Edited August 18, 2011 by Evil Genius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cactuscarl Posted August 18, 2011 Mine seam to attach fine and stay there but after 3 weeks or so they just shrivel up? I've used small seedlings and a couple of bigger 6 months old ones none seam to work. Got more peres rooting now tho so I'll have another go in a week or so Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted August 18, 2011 on trich stock ive just been using a 50c piece to weigh down the scion. i keep it in place with 4 tooth picks i push into the trich rootstock around the 50c piece keeping it firmly in place. ive used no humidity, in the middle of winter, and im yet to lose one scion (lophs) all have taken and are growing well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) Yeah nito, that technique with the tooth stick is being used by many german breeders. But its not very friendly to the host so dont use plants that have any value as stock. But they usually survive it. Carl, did you apply pressure? Clean Tools? Edited August 18, 2011 by Evil Genius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) jeez i thought i was beeing innovative and original! u dont stick the toothpick that far in, just far enough to be able to balance the 50c on top of the scion. trichs are tough as. im gonna get rid of all the peres out of my collection. im through with it. Edited August 18, 2011 by incognito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) They put a toothstick in the middle through the cactus and wrap a line around it to fixate the grafting on the host. As i understand it, your tech is a little bit diffrent but pretty much just like if not even more effective as the other one. Nito did it again. Wondergraftswoman. Edited August 18, 2011 by Evil Genius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cereusly Posted August 18, 2011 Over at cactiguide several people use selenicereus as a seedling grafting stock. There's several people who like it better and claim there's a better success rate. Plus it never gets woody like pereskiopsis. I can't speak from personal experience yet, but I have 3 different species i'm growing that I'm going to try. some guy grafted astrophytum caput medusa seedlings on 3 different stocks; pereskiopsis, selenicereus, and harrisia; as a who's going to bloom first race. I think the selenicereus graft won. so it looks like growth speed is still pretty quick with selenicereus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted August 18, 2011 grafting seedlings on pere requires a pretty steady hand. It's not the easiest graft to begin with. graftin some bigger pup to a wider stock is much better to practice and gain confidence. cereus works alright Marcel I followed Teo's guide to the letter... maybe you shouldn't have. it's a good guide, I think it's where I got my first info. Its only about pereskiopsis+lophophora though , no? EG: Pressure is the key. And cutting off the Edges as well as using clean tools. If you follow that and use a good and accepting grafting stock, you´ll soon have success here, I am having success without applying pressure [using selinicereus as stock], I almost never bevel [cut off the edges] and I never bother too much to sterilise tools. but yeah the moment of applying pressure and positioning is key. Don't drink and graft kadakuda's doing this a lot and having good success! SO here you are, there's no ultimate guide. marcel, if more people posted more about their grafting failures, I am sure you would feel better. dont give up so early! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 18, 2011 If it's any consolation Marcel, I would have had more failures with Pereskiopsis grafts than I've had successes. Some that take still barely grow, so are basically failures anyway. Grafting larger scions to larger stocks is far easier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tipz Posted August 18, 2011 well - ive had a 100% success rate Mind you i have only done two. both lophs around the 4cm mark as i thought i was getting rot at the base of my buttons. I simply used a sterile razor - one onto a small pach pup and one onto an unknown trich juvenile ( misplaced the label ). Kept in very warm humid conditions under soft whit fluorescent light with a few fifty cent peices on one and a small flat rock on the other. I just read all the previous grafting posts and took what i thought sounded right from all the information. Got em under hps lamps now and they are just starting to take off ! STOKED !!!! I have many seedlings round the 15mm size and was planning grafting a lot onto peres, but this thread is giving me second thoughts May just stick with the trichs and experiment with some of the above mentioned species. Ill let the majority go on to grow naturally without grafting to sample sometime around my sixtieth birthday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOnThen Posted August 18, 2011 I will put my hand up and admit to my low success rate. At the moment I am at 2 from 7 with one iffy loph just hanging in there (all on peres). The two that are growing well are trichs (on peres) and they were my first grafts both done at the same time. They were only a week or so old and so when they took I thought I was on a roll. I grafted 5 lophs thinking I had this grafting sorted. I planned to graft all though winter and have heaps to go outside when it warmed up. How wrong I was a few weeks later I had one sad looking loph graft left. It is sad killing seedlings but I am going to keep trying. I have been building my peres stock over winter and in the next few weeks I will be taking a blade to my poor little seedlings once more. I have to get this right I have been building a greenhouse to keep all of my grafts in Cheers Got Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 18, 2011 I've never actually done grafts under lights, maybe that would help. I just let them battle the elements. I can't say I give them much care, especially the last lot done in autumn. A greenhouse would be great to have! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naja naja Posted August 19, 2011 I'd say the low strike rate would be due to the lack of suitable grafting conditions, rather than choice of stock. Cacti have to both be in active growth for highest success rate. Also, providing humid, warm conditions for atleast a few weeks afterwards is essential IMO, esp for seedling grafts. Ur ripping them from a sterile, warm cosy greehouse(chineese takeaway container) cutting them in twain and u expect them to survive and thrive just cause u placed them onto a stock? Not gonna happen... They need TLC, a flouro would help heaps, doing it inide a small little dedicated cupboard and growing the pere's in there witrh the seedlings before grafting. Cost say$100 to set up a pretty reasonable setup, well worth it imo. I'll find sum pics of my pere/loph grafts to chuck up soon. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naja naja Posted August 19, 2011 http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24808 http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23565 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel Posted August 19, 2011 Your points make a lot of sense, naja. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
