tripsis Posted July 28, 2011 To anyone with experience using laminar flow cabinets, which is preferable for culture work: horizontal flow or vertical flow? I've been looking at horizontal flow units, but vertical flow units are very common too, so they must be both useful and popular. Initially I thought horizontal flow would be the way to go, but I'm no longer so sure. Any advice appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
worowa Posted July 28, 2011 I could be wrong, but I thought the vertical ones where for extraction, like when working with hazardous matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSF Posted July 28, 2011 @worowa: i think you are right but the one i bought had been coverted to go the other way. But i'm sceptical because there's a bunch of UV lights, why would you UV something before the HEPA or whilst venting. Maybe the uv was a mod too on mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted July 29, 2011 There are definitely laminar flow cabinets manufactured as vertical units. This one is a decent example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) I don't think there is really much difference if the unit meets purity standards required for the task at hand ISO 14644 standards It all becomes a matter of technique - approach angles with tools and placement etc Different placement and handling methods are needed for vertical & horizontal units to reduce the chance of creating turbulence or blowing contaminants onto the job/culture. Edited July 29, 2011 by SallyD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omsource Posted July 29, 2011 I was informed by a specialist in the field that horizontal units where preferable. According to him in a vertical flow hood, the air is pushed down into the workspace, then bounces off of the table and creates eddies of air that can pull in unfiltered air.... this wouldn't be such a big deal in a clean room environment but most of us are working out of a spare room, garage, bathroom etc. He seemed like he knew what he was talking about 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themushroombloke Posted July 29, 2011 I have another question to throw into the mix: what's the difference between FFU filter and a HEPA filter? because I was looking on alibaba.com and in china you can buy an FFU filter that has the fan, filter and switches all in one small wall like unit. What you would have to do is build the box and bench yourself, this small unit with no housing would keep the shipping to a minimum.. I havn't got a price yet, will keep everyone posted. ideas....... the chinese people i'm contacting via e-mail are pleasent enough but dont have a good hold on english, so it's a little difficult to communicate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted July 29, 2011 You can get an entire unit shipped for ±~USD1000 from the US (obviously depending on size and other specification; I'm looking for a smaller unit between 80cm and 100cm). I too have been in contact with a few Chinese suppliers and am seriously considering get an unit manufactured to my specifications. An FFU can have either a HEPA or ULPA filter in it. The problem I see with it is that if something breaks, or the filter clogs, it will be much harder to fix, much like motherboards in laptops which have everything attached. When one part goes, the entire unit may well be made defunct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted July 29, 2011 i think you are right but the one i bought had been coverted to go the other way. NSF, does that mean you have a vertical flow unit? If so, how do you find it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSF Posted July 31, 2011 Mine's great and i have a low contam rate. I never get contams in my bags, which i sterilise and then innoculate in the hood. I have a a few contams in agar, about 10%. The best thing is that i work with my hands under glass, as in, it's got an angled piece of glass on the front, that i put hands under, so i can't breathe onto my stuff. So it's only a small opening, but a larger space inside. It's made by Oliphant, who are Aussie but may no longer be in business. It weighs a tonne. I can't imagine working in front of just a hepa, a home made one, i'd contam shit all the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSF Posted July 31, 2011 Sorry, on mobile, can't edit my post, so have to paste the link in a new post. http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i434/NotSoFro/Fungi%20to%20Share/54619a25.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSF Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) EDIT: double post Edited August 1, 2011 by NSF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themushroombloke Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) ok so I have been e-mailing this chinese (via Alibaba.com) company and here are the results: Please if anyone know's about flowhoods and see's this product as useless for mycology please voice your opinion! first for a small unit 570/570/320 USD $380(This is to your door price) ok so i was playing around with a ruler to check this size and it's roughly to sheets of A4 paper put side by side length ways for the 570mm=W and 320mm=H is roughly 1.2 pieces of A4 paper lengthways. So it's big enough but only just. for a larger unit 1170/570/340 USD $500 (This is to your door price)This would be ideal giving a bit more room to move PLEASE NOTE: This is just the blower unit and filter, If you were to purchase this you'd need to setup a bench and side guards to maximise cleanlyness. Also If they dont have the correct plug end for the unit you may need to purchase a converter plug??? here's a photo of the smaller unit Also here is a link for some of the spec's on the product here's an image of the larger unit i assume it's back to front Once again please notify me if this unit is not suitable for mushroom cultivation as i dont know much about flowhoods, just sharing my info. So hopefully next time I get my Tax back.... Edited August 2, 2011 by themushroombloke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 3, 2011 An FFU unit does seem like a decent option, although I'm doubtful about serviceability. Once the filter it clogged, does the entire unit get turfed, or can just the filter be replaced? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) Mushroombloke, check this site out. It's in Australia and even has units with replaceable filters. No idea on prices. I expect expensive. Edit: Here is some info on using an FFU for mushroom cultivation. Seems it is fine. However, this is what one Chinese manufacturer had to say about it: Yes, we use fan filter unit covered on the vertical laminar flow hood; while we didn't use ffu for horizontal one so far. It's hard to fix hepa filter if we do so and what's more, the cost may be higher than our normal horizontal hepa filter. For your information, the fan of vertical one is different from horizontal one. Perhaps constructions plays an important role on useability for our purposes. Edited August 3, 2011 by tripsis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themushroombloke Posted August 3, 2011 hmmm...... now I'm looking at this.... http://www.fungifun.org/English/Flowhood#construction i'm sending out heaps of enquiry e-mails to aussie companies explaining that I want to create a flowhood for mushroom cultivation worth a shot I'd love to work out a cheap option and perhaps put them together and sell them for cheap on the forums or something perhaps. see what it costs first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 3, 2011 Yeah, I've seen that before. As a matter of fact, was just looking at it earlier tonight for a reference. Just have to do the maths to get it right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 3, 2011 Still, if the FFU with the replaceable filter of that Australian site I linked to is affordable, I think it's a very good option. Could use it as is, or built protective sides for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themushroombloke Posted August 4, 2011 Still, if the FFU with the replaceable filter of that Australian site I linked to is affordable, I think it's a very good option. Could use it as is, or built protective sides for it. True that. However I'll run the numbers on building my own perhaps we could work together to save time. I have got one reply back from a HEPA filter company in AUS: "Our company manufactures HEPA and semi-absolute filters similar to the ones the website lists on Ebay. Looks like most HEPAs being used are the minipleat type which would work with a smaller capacity fan, but it has a smaller life cycle than a conventional HEPA with aluminium seperators. We can supply a Minipleat HEPA for around $150-250 depending on required size. Allow approx. $50-80 more for a 149mm deep conventional HEPA in the same size. If you select the required size from our attached brochure I can quote an exact price for you." - AES Environmental (the company I contacted) so that's a starting point... here's another useful link click here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 4, 2011 Got a quote back from Space Flters today about their 'Airvelope® Model 39 - Roomside Replaceable Fan Filter Module'. The 600mm x 600mm unit costs $1592 plus GST. The 1200mm x 600mm unit costs $1885 plus GST. The replacement filters cost $270 and $370 respectively. So quite expensive, though very cheap compared to a new laminar flow cabinet. I'm down with the idea of building a unit myself, but the maths and technical terms are doing my head in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 4, 2011 What size filters are you inquiring about mushroombloke? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themushroombloke Posted August 4, 2011 What size filters are you inquiring about mushroombloke? I havn't specified sizes yet, I think they were just giving me a rough idea. From what i can tell the people who make the filters can tell you how strong a blower you'll need to give the correct airflow strength. I'm just going to keep asking until I get the answer I want The other thing I was thinking is to ask a orchid club who would also have this same problem and I'm sure there's some old codger who's worked it out! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted August 4, 2011 Fair enough. I've sent emails to several places and called up a fair number too. Waiting on a few quotes. Only looked into the blowers briefly. Don't really have heaps of time to spend on this with uni though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSF Posted August 4, 2011 Just buy this one! ;D Ebay #: 150400550198 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themushroombloke Posted August 4, 2011 Just buy this one! ;D Ebay #: 150400550198 I dont need both kidney's do I?????????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites