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MrSoulSong

Sub Variations in SW Victoria

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Hey all!

I thought it was about time to become active on the forum! Been a member for nearly a year and only my second post! Been trolling behind the scenes for a long while though :blush:

Since i can safely say i missed the season here this year, as it came very early, I thought I'd do a dig through some old images to show you the variations we came across last season. All these variations came from the same, quite averaged sized, Pine forest. (About 250m x 50m). All came from within around 20m of each other, during the same hunt.

Here are the pics... Oh and sorry for the bad quality, they were taken on a phone in very low light...

post-7829-0-48775000-1311083919_thumb.jp

post-7829-0-15665200-1311083937_thumb.jp

post-7829-0-69424000-1311083975_thumb.jp

post-7829-0-48775000-1311083919_thumb.jpg

post-7829-0-15665200-1311083937_thumb.jpg

post-7829-0-69424000-1311083975_thumb.jpg

post-7829-0-48775000-1311083919_thumb.jpg

post-7829-0-15665200-1311083937_thumb.jpg

post-7829-0-69424000-1311083975_thumb.jpg

Edited by MrSoulSong

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Yeah, they differ a lot. I'm not surprised that there were so many different listed species previously (i.e. Psilocybe eucalypta, Psilocybe australiana, Psilocybe tasmaniana). The biggest difference is usually noticed between different environments/substrates. Those found in Pinus Radiata plantations or long grass usually have long stems, while those found in woodchips usually have fatter stems and tend to be shorter. There are also many variations in the caps: I have found some which are distinctly umbonate and others which are smooth across the top; some which are almost pouch-like (like the NZ relatives) and others which are completely flat; and some which are a pale gold and others that are a rich golden brown (without taking age into account). However, microscopically they are all the same :shrug:.

Also, the same can be said for a lot of mushrooms. I have found Psilocybe Cubensis with gold caps, yellowish-pale caps and purple caps. In terms of shape, I have found them to be conical, flat, pointy and umbonate. I have have also found Panaeolus cyanescens with goldish caps, almost white caps, yellowish-pale caps and brownish caps. The stems of this species can also (IME) be reddish, translucent, brownish or white.

All of them differ alot, you just have to look for the key indicators.

p.s. OP, where did you get that sig. from? It's :lol:.

Edited by TheExplorer

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Yeah, they differ a lot. I'm not surprised that there were so many different listed species previously (i.e. Psilocybe eucalypta, Psilocybe australiana, Psilocybe tasmaniana). The biggest difference is usually noticed between different environments/substrates. Those found in Pinus Radiata plantations or long grass usually have long stems, while those found in woodchips usually have fatter stems and tend to be shorter. There are also many variations in the caps: I have found some which are distinctly umbonate and others which are smooth across the top; some which are almost pouch-like (like the NZ relatives) and others which are completely flat; and some which are a pale gold and others that are a rich golden brown (without taking age into account). However, microscopically they are all the same :shrug:.

Also, the same can be said for a lot of mushrooms. I have found Psilocybe Cubensis with gold caps, yellowish-pale caps and purple caps. In terms of shape, I have found them to be conical, flat, pointy and umbonate. I have have also found Panaeolus cyanescens with goldish caps, almost white caps, yellowish-pale caps and brownish caps. The stems of this species can also (IME) be reddish, translucent, brownish or white.

All of them differ alot, you just have to look for the key indicators.

p.s. OP, where did you get that sig. from? It's :lol:.

 

The interesting thing is that we have found so many variations within the same environment/substrate, in the same flush. I wish i had more pics to show this! Fat stems, thin and long stems, pale yellow to dark brown caps. At our previous hunting grounds we did not experience these variations at all. Same environment... Pinus Radiata forest etc. The only difference is the they are around 10km apart.

Actually now that I say this, there was one variation we came across at the old grounds, which we had been going to for over 10 years. I once found... I kid you not, Subbies that were over 250mm in height, caps that were flat and around 60-70mm in diameter, and the stems over 10mm thick! I have photos of these somewhere, but it was many moons ago... Will have do a big dig and try and find them to post up. They were quite mature at the time of sighting, and were starting to dry out. They were found growing beside a fresh stump, which had been cut before the season started. Another Corroboree member here can verify this, as they were there with me at the time. They also have found these 'Monster' Subs on another occasion, when hunting alone. The old grounds has since been logged, leaving only a few Radiata's along a fence line. Hence why we now have a new hunting ground... And have since found another, thanks to the member i mentioned!.. which is nearly 2 square Km's in size! But we never got to see what this big boy can produce as we were late to the season this year :BANGHEAD2::(

Your absolutely correct. The key indicators are very important obviously. As a beginner to hunting may pass over say, the dark Subs, like the ones I posted. The colour those pretties went right after finding them, I have yet to see twice in over 10 years! You can see the blueing starting, in the pic, which was taken a minute or so after finding them. They continued to blue to the point where we were... :drool2:

Oh btw thank you, the Sig is something i just whipped up quickly lastnight.

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Those were some very nice subs we found in those pics, glad you still have the photos! I have some photos that I can add to go with these ones to show some variation, I will dig them up and post. As for the 250mm subbies found back in the day I can vouch for that, they certainly were monsters! That character pic sums it up well (smashing head on wall) I still have hope that we can find some more.. Will add some pics soon...

The interesting thing is that we have found so many variations within the same environment/substrate, in the same flush. I wish i had more pics to show this! Fat stems, thin and long stems, pale yellow to dark brown caps. At our previous hunting grounds we did not experience these variations at all. Same environment... Pinus Radiata forest etc. The only difference is the they are around 10km apart.

Actually now that I say this, there was one variation we came across at the old grounds, which we had been going to for over 10 years. I once found... I kid you not, Subbies that were over 250mm in height, caps that were flat and around 60-70mm in diameter, and the stems over 10mm thick! I have photos of these somewhere, but it was many moons ago... Will have do a big dig and try and find them to post up. They were quite mature at the time of sighting, and were starting to dry out. They were found growing beside a fresh stump, which had been cut before the season started. Another Corroboree member here can verify this, as they were there with me at the time. They also have found these 'Monster' Subs on another occasion, when hunting alone. The old grounds has since been logged, leaving only a few Radiata's along a fence line. Hence why we now have a new hunting ground... And have since found another, thanks to the member i mentioned!.. which is nearly 2 square Km's in size! But we never got to see what this big boy can produce as we were late to the season this year :BANGHEAD2::(

Your absolutely correct. The key indicators are very important obviously. As a beginner to hunting may pass over say, the dark Subs, like the ones I posted. The colour those pretties went right after finding them, I have yet to see twice in over 10 years! You can see the blueing starting, in the pic, which was taken a minute or so after finding them. They continued to blue to the point where we were... :drool2:

Oh btw thank you, the Sig is something i just whipped up quickly lastnight.

 

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Some variations to go along with MrSoulSongs post, which were also found in the same forest. Apologies for quality of pics, these were taken with a poor quality camera phone.

post-7546-0-84519400-1311136594_thumb.jp

post-7546-0-11163500-1311136608_thumb.jp

post-7546-0-58260000-1311136622_thumb.jp

post-7546-0-39178200-1311136633_thumb.jp

post-7546-0-77237700-1311136646_thumb.jp

post-7546-0-48434900-1311136658_thumb.jp

post-7546-0-51555000-1311136674_thumb.jp

post-7546-0-84519400-1311136594_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-11163500-1311136608_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-58260000-1311136622_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-39178200-1311136633_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-77237700-1311136646_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-48434900-1311136658_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-51555000-1311136674_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-84519400-1311136594_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-11163500-1311136608_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-58260000-1311136622_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-39178200-1311136633_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-77237700-1311136646_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-48434900-1311136658_thumb.jpg

post-7546-0-51555000-1311136674_thumb.jpg

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Some variations to go along with MrSoulSongs post, which were also found in the same forest. Apologies for quality of pics, these were taken with a poor quality camera phone.

 

Haha sweet! Thanks for adding some more images man!

Were those taken on the same hunt? If i recall correctly, they were. I also have some video footage of that hunt too.

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No probs, Yeah I reckon so man..

Haha sweet! Thanks for adding some more images man!

Were those taken on the same hunt? If i recall correctly, they were. I also have some video footage of that hunt too.

 

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I think a lot of the variation you're seeing can be put down to cap moisture level, which changes the colour from bright caramel brown to pale tan, as the caps dry. Remember Psilocybe subaeruginosa are hygrophanous. The darker more olive coloured ones I have seen associated with frost in the past, as they oxidise. All your pictures show a quintessentially sub shape, with the typical umbo.

Taxonomically speaking, shades of brown are not a useful character to differentiate species.

All this is not to say that Ps. subaeruginosa are not a hugely variable species. Over the years I have seen many forms which may or may not be different species (officially they are not), but a lot of them are environment related. Here around Hobart we get a thing that looks almost exactly like Ps. cyanescens but might still be Ps. subaeruginosa.

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I think a lot of the variation you're seeing can be put down to cap moisture level, which changes the colour from bright caramel brown to pale tan, as the caps dry. Remember Psilocybe subaeruginosa are hygrophanous. The darker more olive coloured ones I have seen associated with frost in the past, as they oxidise. All your pictures show a quintessentially sub shape, with the typical umbo.

Taxonomically speaking, shades of brown are not a useful character to differentiate species.

All this is not to say that Ps. subaeruginosa are not a hugely variable species. Over the years I have seen many forms which may or may not be different species (officially they are not), but a lot of them are environment related. Here around Hobart we get a thing that looks almost exactly like Ps. cyanescens but might still be Ps. subaeruginosa.

 

Yes you may be correct. But, Im not trying to differentiate species, based on any colouring, just simply showing the possible varying looks, of something that now is considered one 'species', can have. Otherwise I'd have to agree with you. :) Again all these pics, including Wanderer's, come from the same exact environment, during the same hunt. The environment thoughout the Radiata forest does not vary in itself very much at all.

-------

On another note, i found the pics of some of those 'Monsters' I mentioned. I found them on the 'Shroomery' from a post I made in '06. So Wanderer... THATS how long ago it was. Time flys when your having fun ay.

post-7829-0-67123900-1311153210_thumb.jp

Haha actually, the pic says July 04! Thats wild! :lol:

All the examples in the pic came from our previous grounds, which as i mentioned had been just about completely logged by the time the '04 season had begun. I'm a little disappointed i didnt take any habitat images of them!

post-7829-0-67123900-1311153210_thumb.jpg

post-7829-0-67123900-1311153210_thumb.jpg

Edited by MrSoulSong

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Fuck ay! I forgot how big they actually were! They dwarf that ciggy pack.. A damn shame they logged that area.. that was a long time ago.. you must have taken that pic on one them old film things :)

Yes you may be correct. But, Im not trying to differentiate species, based on any colouring, just simply showing the possible varying looks, of something that now is considered one 'species', can have. Otherwise I'd have to agree with you. :) Again all these pics, including Wanderer's, come from the same exact environment, during the same hunt. The environment thoughout the Radiata forest does not vary in itself very much at all.

-------

On another note, i found the pics of some of those 'Monsters' I mentioned. I found them on the 'Shroomery' from a post I made in '06. So Wanderer... THATS how long ago it was. Time flys when your having fun ay.

post-7829-0-67123900-1311153210_thumb.jp

Haha actually, the pic says July 04! Thats wild! :lol:

All the examples in the pic came from our previous grounds, which as i mentioned had been just about completely logged by the time the '04 season had begun. I'm a little disappointed i didnt take any habitat images of them!

 

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Fuck ay! I forgot how big they actually were! They dwarf that ciggy pack.. A damn shame they logged that area.. that was a long time ago.. you must have taken that pic on one them old film things :)

 

Haha, I remember those! You had to put some sort of cartridge in and wind wind wind! :P

Yes, it is a total shame. I wonder why they even did so? Maybe a contamination issue with spreading pine needles or something?

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