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http://www.news.com.au/national/cigs-war-won-now-cancer-campaigners-set-their-sights-on-beer/story-e6frfkw9-1226088686962

* Group calls for alcohol to be labelled a carcinogen

* Move could pave the way for plain alcohol packaging

* Battle: Plain cigarette packaging goes to Parliament

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/cigs-war-won-now-cancer-campaigners-set-their-sights-on-beer/story-e6frfkw9-1226088686962#ixzz1RHaQkuIp

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the only positive i can see is with my mates, when i drank i used to LOVE "emu export"..........now i know alot of you WA crew are gonna say im sick in the head for liking export, i wasnt an alco and export isnt cheepo el gweepo any more, seriously i loved it over all other beers simply cos it had a unique strong flavour.

i played a game with all my buddies one night, simply because i left a can of export at a friends house fridge and 6 months later the can of export was still in thye fridge, now your talking about over summertime here in a blokes fridge with heaps of visiting mates............and nobody touched the export at all, from experience a beers gotta be pretty bad that a bunch of blokes wont touch it over 6 months even when they runout of beers.

so i grabbed 6 different beers, all different brands and blindfolded a few mates and did blind taste testing, this was all to prove that they could not pick the emu export blindfolded, hence i win because they could not taste the difference to preffered beers ordinarily (so export couldnt be that bad hey : )........guess what my bozo mates couldnt pick the emu export out of the blind selection hahahaha.

so yeh, plain labelling means i can make my blind mates drink export any time i want hahaha :lol:

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They should "geek up" the packaging on alcohol IMO, even if it's just to piss off oddballs that supposedly drink alcohol for the taste:

From the ethanol 20% MSDS: EU Symbol of danger: Xi Indication of danger: Irritant.

Route of exposure: Skin contact. Causes skin irritation.

Skin Absorption: May be harmful if absorbed through skin.

Causes eye irritation.

May be harmful if inhaled. Material is irritating to mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract.

May be harmful if swallowed.

Target organs: liver and nerves.

Signs and symptoms of exposure: Can cause CNS depression. Exposure can cause nausea, headache, and vomiting. Narcotic effect. Damage to heart. The chemical, physical and toxicological properties have not been thoroughly investigated.

Then again, I tend to gravitate to things labeled "Irritant", "Hazardous", "Caution", "Poison", "May cause drowsiness or dizziness" etc. I could imagine the added acknowledgement of risks on a package actually encouraging adolescents and teenagers [+others] during their days of extreme risk-taking.

The "Let's get f'd up" mentality would likely be replaced with "Let's get f'd up on toxic carcinogens!"

Edited by Alchemica
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So they remove the labels and raise the price...that makes sense,I mean it won't stop people who are dependent...so the Gov't still rakes in more dough....oh and they can still have their drinkies too :rolleyes:

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They should "geek up" the packaging on alcohol IMO, even if it's just to piss off oddballs that supposedly drink alcohol for the taste:

Does 'supposedly' suggest that you think all people with high standards in choosing their alcohol based on a flavour profile is wank ? I drink often (too often LOL) but have high expectations on what I am consuming, both with whisky and beer. A shiny gold case of Crown Lager and a bottle of Black Douglas might look nice if it's under the christmas tree with my name on it, but it's unlikely I would drink it.

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the only reason the tobocco companies are trying so hard and spending so much to stop this happening must be because they forecast that plain packaging will cost them profit, not just a tiny bit...LOTS. and it will set a precedent world wide and the flow on effects would be disastrous for the tobacco industry.

so to protect their interests they design a smear campain based on fear, using civil liberties as a sick kind of analogy, preying on the stupididy of the masses to actyually believe the government is going to imprison their minds somehow and using societies biggest vulnerability called alcohol as a scare tactic - if they take away your smokes, your beer is next.

you really got to ask yourself, do you really believe an industry which has probably created more deaths (if you believe a link between smoking related illnesses) than any other trigger in history, to suddenly come out of the woodwork and be concerned for your personal wellbeing, not a chance- they are shitting their pants because for the first time ever, people are waking up.

i totally understand that drinking a glass of moet & chandon or an expensive gold wrapped cuban ciggar is extremely classy and makes one feel good about themself but this is all really based on our pre-programming through a lifetime of advertising and a deep seated fear of our own in-adequacy as a person that we must somehow aspire to this belief that we need to be accepted or the strive for popularity. if you break it down even further it really comes down to the emotions and a precieved self image of which most aspire to, and the simple fact that most people deep down are insecure and lacking a functioning reliable ego.

you got to ask yourself, why is it that when you go out to a party on a saturday night that you wear your hair with gel, don your best levi jeans and your pair of nike shoes, it is because that you dont think that you are good enough if you dress in cheap outfits to impress people, this all comes from a deep insecurity we all have that we are not good enough as we are normally and we must aspire to some social ideal of what we think people want to see, and this will somehow make us more attractive or make up for the fact that out biggest fear is that you are just an ordinary boring person with nothing special about you at all, you are simply nothing but a generic clone dressed in good clothes, and this helps us overcome the inadeqacy we all deep down fear.

do you really think that people drink crown lager cos its the best tasting beer, the reason they drink it is because its a pretty shiny bottle, just like a crow colects shiny stuff to lure a mate..pretending to look good so they can falsify their own worth to the world. the problem is that you have not corrected the issue that you are a worthless, battery, clone, copy, there is nothing special about you, your ego is designed on a lie and that drinking a crown lager with a shiny label will make you forget this for a short time and make you believe that you fit into a grander social scale and make you feel good about yourself, perhaps even superior-forgetting that indeed you are really nothing but a hairless monkey with some real mental issues and a negative self image who is simply smoking a plant picked from the ground.

anything that wakes people up to the modern day lie we all believe and forces people to remove a brand which is essentially just a way to categorise, class and scam people-has to be a good thing for the greater humanity of our existance.

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I always chuckle when something from 1984 shows up in society. :wink:

victory-gin-1984-elixer-marijuana-ingsoc-sad-hill-news1.jpg

i am quite certain there really is a brand by this name...here it is Victory Gin

the only reason the tobocco companies are trying so hard and spending so much to stop this happening must be because they forecast that plain packaging will cost them profit, not just a tiny bit...LOTS.

yeah how is that?? "plain packaging will not reduce sales" says massive ad campaign. then why are you bothering to be upset?? how stupid do they think we are? of course i am sure in a lot of cases they are right.

and yeah i certainly don't support the tobacco companies (financially or idealogically), but i also don't support the plain packaging thing because it is stupid to put such restrictions on a legally available product. it's just more nanny state bullshit. and, as shown, it could spread to alcohol, coffee and fucking everything else. i also understand your points about consumerism and all that nasty stuff but the fact is that we are consumers and consumers like variation. as pointed out above, plain packaging and government control just leads to 1984 style product monopoly, which im sure you don't want either. personally i like products to have interesting labels and don't think a legal product should be forced to relinquish this facet of product design. i am all for having them hidden in non-tobacconists though. confused the hell out of me when i came back from overseas recently lol...'where did all the cigarettes go??'

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i totally understand that drinking a glass of moet & chandon or an expensive gold wrapped cuban ciggar is extremely classy and makes one feel good about themself but this is all really based on our pre-programming through a lifetime of advertising and a deep seated fear of our own in-adequacy as a person that we must somehow aspire to this belief that we need to be accepted or the strive for popularity.

If you think that's the only reason people drink quality brands, then I'm calling bullshit on your sweeping generalisation. You can't tell me that a cheap & nasty house scotch at the pub is comparable in flavour to (let's say) and Ardbeg Single Malt from Islay. And whisky doesn't hold the 'look at me' persona when it's poured into a glass.

That said, I mostly agree with you, especially on the beer people buy in a bottle. I have shocked some people in the past when pointing out that their trendy Heineken, Stella or Becks isn't an imported product, but brewed right here in Australia under license by the same companies who brew common beers such as VB or Tooheys.

you got to ask yourself, why is it that when you go out to a party on a saturday night that you wear your hair with gel, don your best levi jeans and your pair of nike shoes,

Not me. I'm mostly anti-brand when it comes to clothing, and I'm sure most members here avoid being brand whores. I have never applied a styling product to my hair, buy shoes that feel good (I admit, I own a pair of Nikes, because they are so damned comfortable, and purchase my jeans based upon how well they show off my smokin'-hot backside and front package. Whether they are Levi's, Jeans West or K-Mart, as long as they hold up in all the right places, I'm into 'em. :lol:

do you really think that people drink crown lager cos its the best tasting beer, the reason they drink it is because its a pretty shiny bottle, just like a crow colects shiny stuff to lure a mate..pretending to look good so they can falsify their own worth to the world.

I don't. Crown Lager is crap. I would rather spend $25 to $30, often more, on a six pack of hand crafted beer that I enjoy. If I'm sitting at home having a few with my partner, it's a hard stretch to say I'm out to impress anyone with my choice of alcohol brand. If I want to degrade my senses, and take away pleasure in my life, I'll eat McDonalds. Do you eat McDonalds, Santiago? If so, your low gastronomical standards would explain the statements above.

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Does 'supposedly' suggest that you think all people with high standards in choosing their alcohol based on a flavour profile is wank ? I drink often (too often LOL) but have high expectations on what I am consuming, both with whisky and beer. A shiny gold case of Crown Lager and a bottle of Black Douglas might look nice if it's under the christmas tree with my name on it, but it's unlikely I would drink it.

That was one of my typical sarcastic comments, I don't care what reason people have for consuming alcohol. Still, using it as a "status symbol" (paying hugely excessive prices for alcohol could be better referred to as "capitalistic alcoholism"?) is often seen as being more acceptable than using it psychoactively. To see alcohol as solely a beverage you enjoy the taste of, whilst disregarding it as an intoxicant and drug in the same league as any others that are socially demonised, is one thing I've never understood. If the best way of getting information about the harms of alcohol across to people so they can make an informed choice is a slightly less aesthetically pleasing label with a small but easily visible warning, even on someone's premium appearance, nose, taste and finish drop of overpriced alcohol, I would welcome that.

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ì can understand both sides of the argument but obviously i have chosen to back plain packaging, i can see the totalitarian aspect of plain packaging but then to believe that you would have to back the scenario that the government wants to control your mind as opposed to rectfying health issues in regards to tobacco and whilst i do believe governments dont always have the best moral interests of its citzens to heart all the time, it certainly does this time and to believe that a simple packet of plain ciggies is really going to limit this so called freedom that none of us really have anyway, well then you may need more help than even i need :blink:

its this whats next senario that the tobacco companies have used as its bullshit strategy to combat losing the only real thing that makes any particular product popular-its brand. very very clever, but if you were protecting trillions of dollars you would probably lie thru your teeth and manipulate the simpletons minds as well.

say tomorrow the government did an about face and said' ''we are going to legalise all entheogens over the counter, but you can only get them in plain packaging", would you really care, or would you demand that it comes in a pretty little package so you can identify with some self percieved image of what the world and yourself SHOULD look like. me personally i couldnt give a toss and just say thank fuck i can just get the shit.

it reminds me of a generic steriotype of personality i see on the roads every day, about 3 times a day i see a typical guy over and over, he generally has a black late model commodore, is in his mid 20's and does a little burnout as he rounds the corner with his macho V8, i swear its the same guy but then i realised that its a typical type of guy, this typical type of guy is obviously trying to emminate some cool, mans man, bogan tough guy type of charade which really is how he wants his image to be percieved by others, i tend to ask myself why isnt that same guy a bogan and driving a pink beetle but still be the same dude deep down, what difference does it make? so long as he knows he is cool then why does it really matter, it matters because he would imply that other people dont think he is cool, deep down he is insecure with his place in the world and in order to rectify his lack of real substance he has to overcompensate by creating his own brand, this instance his brand is bogan but this brand is what we want other people to believe we are, even though we are probably not. so basically its just a big lie that we put on to sell ourselves which related to popularity which translates to sales if you want to look at it this way. take away the brand and you take away the lie, and its the lie that creates the sale more often than the product by the manipulation of a persons ego, which is the core fundamental reason the tobacco companies are in a state of panic.

to the single blokes out there, you pick up a set of twins at a nightclub..you take them home but they say that you must choose which one to sleep with. the first one comes out of the bathroom dressed in some sexy lingerie, full make up, whips and chains and blinking her eyes in a seductive manner, the other comes out of the bathroom still wiping her ass from doing a shit, her hair all messy, wearing grandma undies and coughing flehm up. the time comes to choose...............do you choose the first or the second twin, im sure most would choose the first one in lingerie-just as you too have chosen a packet of winfields.

branding is all a product has, without it it is just a really ugly twin with grandma undies.

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basically its just a big lie that we put on to sell ourselves which related to popularity which translates to sales
take away the brand and you take away the lie
branding is all a product has

So you'll dismiss a product's quality in every instance, and assume it's 'all the same' when the slick marketing is removed? If I came to your house with two pizza's, one from Domino's and one from an independant wood-fired gourmet joint, both with the same ingredients (by description), but in a plain cardboard box, you wouldn't rate the latter to be far superior based on it's own merits as a pizza?

My arguement is that not all alcohol is created equal. To even suggest so is like comparing 3-minute noodles to a bowl of Tom Yum on the streets of Thailand.

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What a lot of smokers fail to see is that most anti smoking policy is put in place to discourage young people from taking up smoking in the first place. You always hear things like "putting up the price isn't going to stop me smoking" and "putting smokes in plain package isn't going to stop me smoking". Everyone knows that you can't stop people smoking if they don't want. Much of the time folks find it hard to stop even if they do want too. It's easier if you just never take it up in the first place. If smoking goes out of fashion people will stop taking it up and the tobacco companies will be fucked. Once your hooked you don't give a fuck if there is a dirty great eyeball with steel thingys hanging out of it, but fuck looking at that shit if you aren't.

plain_packaging.jpg

Edited by rahli
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do you really think that people drink crown lager cos its the best tasting beer, the reason they drink it is because its a pretty shiny bottle

Haha, I absolutely agree with you there...

The thing is, that crown 'premium' lager is an example of where this IS the case. The fact that you used that particular name in your argument suggests that you really don't know much about beer. It seems strange to me, as I'm sure it does to a lot of people who are serious about beer, that CUB manage to market this trash as a premium beer, and somehow they manage to fool people enough to pay a bit extra for it too.

Personally, I like to take a bottle of Liefmans Goudenband from its paper wrapping, pop the Champagne style cork, and pour myself a glass of a beautiful beverage from a beautiful looking bottle. As I said about whisky in another thread recently, I think it adds to the enjoyment of it. Would I still drink this particular beer if it had a plain label? Fuckin' oath YES! Would I still enjoy it more than a VB? Of course!

I am strongly against plain label packaging as being mandatory for the fact that I like a bit of colour in my life, and I do think the packaging of alcoholic drinks in particular is a big part of the experience, an experience which can be very positive if the product is used responsibly. I am well aware that this response to branding and labeling is intentional on the part of the manufacturers. They know that we prefer things that are in shiny or colourful packaging. But I don't let this bother me. If I enjoy something, I don't care if I'm being 'tricked' into enjoying it. If I enjoy it and I'm willing to pay the asking price, who's getting hurt? I say good on the graphic designers who manage to produce such excellent work, and I think the people making and selling the beverages have a right to present it in whatever way they want.

In closing I would like to say: If you really think that branding is everything and underneath the brand all the products are the same, go buy yourself a bottle of Cantillon Gueuze. After you've savoured every last drop, only then can you tell me that it is only branding that separates this beer from a VB.

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go buy yourself a bottle of Cantillon Gueuze.

Or don't. Lambics are not for the faint of heart :P

Ballzac, me and a buddy split a bottle of Murrays AA4 last weekend. Now there's a delectable drop, created in our own backyard. But alas, the labelling is terrible, and we drank it at his place, so there were no ladies present to impress by our selection of stupidly expensive beer.

We have a Lost Abbey Farmhouse Ale to demolish next weekend. Complete with (US) government warning. How could anyone wish to take away such an awesome label is beyond me.

The+Lost+Abbey+Red+Barn+Ale.jpg

The+Lost+Abbey+Red+Barn+Ale+3.jpg

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That actually brings up another point, and that's that packaging can tell a story. I'm not talking about the text on the back, but I look at that label and I immediately expect the beer to be rustic, somewhat austere, yet hearty and satisfying. This may or may not be true of this particular beer, but I actually find labels to be a very good indicator of the contents. You know, a funky multicolored label is going to be some adventurous modern fusion of styles, whereas a brown label with an archaic font will be a more traditional style. That sort of thing. It's actually something I take into account when choosing a drink. Some brands actually voluntarily go for a reasonably plain label. To me that says that they think the beer will speak for itself. An indicator, in itself, of what one might expect to be inside. I'm getting thirsty :lol:

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Double Post

Edited by Psylo Dread

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Good point, but there are some products that run contrary to label expectations. As an example, people might kill their family to get a fresh bottle of Pliny the Elder. What does the label tell you about the style? At a glance, it looks like a generic branded Aldi special. Coincidentally, in drab green.

Warning: Russian River beers may cause you to kill your family.

pliny.jpg

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The Cantillon label may give the impression that it tastes like piss

cantillon_gueuze_100_lambic_bio_37_5cl.jpg

...and some might agree :P

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the only reason the tobocco companies are trying so hard and spending so much to stop this happening must be because they forecast that plain packaging will cost them profit, not just a tiny bit...LOTS. and it will set a precedent world wide and the flow on effects would be disastrous for the tobacco industry.

so to protect their interests they design a smear campain based on fear, using civil liberties as a sick kind of analogy, preying on the stupididy of the masses to actyually believe the government is going to imprison their minds somehow and using societies biggest vulnerability called alcohol as a scare tactic - if they take away your smokes, your beer is next

Agreed.

you got to ask yourself, why is it that when you go out to a party on a saturday night that you wear your hair with gel, don your best levi jeans and your pair of nike shoes

Has never happened and never will. I wear the same old clothes which are falling apart everywhere, whether that be work, a classy restaurant, out in the garden, in bed, wherever. Not all of us fall prey to mainstream fashion and everything that surrounds it.

to the single blokes out there, you pick up a set of twins at a nightclub..you take them home but they say that you must choose which one to sleep with. the first one comes out of the bathroom dressed in some sexy lingerie, full make up, whips and chains and blinking her eyes in a seductive manner, the other comes out of the bathroom still wiping her ass from doing a shit, her hair all messy, wearing grandma undies and coughing flehm up. the time comes to choose...............do you choose the first or the second twin, im sure most would choose the first one in lingerie-just as you too have chosen a packet of winfields.

branding is all a product has, without it it is just a really ugly twin with grandma undies.

:lol:

I like the way you think santiago. It's a very good point you make. Marketing and branding is designed to exploit the weaknesses in our psyche, to make us feel like we need a product that we ultimately do not. If nothing was branded, our choices would be about health or taste, not about what will make us fit in or give us a higher social rank. Marketing is bullshit and anyone that supports it is supporting the exploitation to people the world over.

What a lot of smokers fail to see is that most anti smoking policy is put in place to discourage young people from taking up smoking in the first place. You always hear things like "putting up the price isn't going to stop me smoking" and "putting smokes in plain package isn't going to stop me smoking". Everyone knows that you can't stop people smoking if they don't want. Much of the time folks find it hard to stop even if they do want too. It's easier if you just never take it up in the first place. If smoking goes out of fashion people will stop taking it up and the tobacco companies will be fucked. Once your hooked you don't give a fuck if there is a dirty great eyeball with steel thingys hanging out of it, but fuck looking at that shit if you aren't.

Agreed. You can't stop a person from smoking if that's their decision, but to those who don't yet smoke, making packaging unappealing, 'uncool' and covered in health warnings, will make it an unappealing choice. That's what this is about.

I for one support plain packaging, but not only with cigarettes and alcohol, across the entire range of products that exist. Without marketing and branding, people will choose based on quality and price, not based on the wrapper. If a product is good, it will maintain its customer base and people will advertise for that product by talking about it.

I'm rarely drink, so couldn't care less about what happens to the alcohol companies, or what the packaging or alcoholic drinks looks like. I've never smoked a cigarette in my life, and am completely opposed to them. If tobacco is legal, everything else should be too, but there's no way tobacco should be one of the two legal drugs available. It is one of the worst drugs that exists.

I understand the fear of having a totalitarian government dictating what can and can't be done, but that already happens. You can't advertise a product with hardcore porn on the label. There are already regulations in place. This is just another regulation, albeit a much tighter one. In my opinion though, it's for the better. Too many people for prey to marketing and advertising.

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I find it disturbing that some of you guys are so anti-consumerist that you would happily see the government step in to control the way everything is packaged. I see branding as part of our culture. I see beauty in it. Like all types of beauty, it can at times mask something ugly, but that's our perogative as adults to make the choices.

Supermarkets offer plain label alternatives to almost every product out there. If you don't like the fancy packaging, you have the opportunity to purchase a plain label alternative. Likewise, I have the option of paying more for a branded product if I want it. We are adults, and we have the right to make those choices for ourselves.

To see alcohol as solely a beverage you enjoy the taste of, whilst disregarding it as an intoxicant and drug in the same league as any others that are socially demonised, is one thing I've never understood.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's wrong for it to exist. I don't understand how people can like listening to music like Britney Spears, but I certainly don't think it should be banned, and much as I despise it, it is part of our culture and has it's place.

If the best way of getting information about the harms of alcohol across to people so they can make an informed choice is a slightly less aesthetically pleasing label with a small but easily visible warning, even on someone's premium appearance, nose, taste and finish drop of overpriced alcohol, I would welcome that.

I don't personally have problem with warning labels, only plain packaging, though I do think that warning labels can be removable. After I've been provided with the warnings, it is my choice to remove the warning if I disagree with it or choose not to be reminded of it.

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What a lot of smokers fail to see is that most anti smoking policy is put in place to discourage young people from taking up smoking in the first place. You always hear things like "putting up the price isn't going to stop me smoking" and "putting smokes in plain package isn't going to stop me smoking". Everyone knows that you can't stop people smoking if they don't want. Much of the time folks find it hard to stop even if they do want too. It's easier if you just never take it up in the first place. If smoking goes out of fashion people will stop taking it up and the tobacco companies will be fucked. Once your hooked you don't give a fuck if there is a dirty great eyeball with steel thingys hanging out of it, but fuck looking at that shit if you aren't.

plain_packaging.jpg

What i like is that they kept the same gov warnings. My brain tells me instantly 'thats a pack of smokes'!

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I've never heard of anyone complaining that weed comes plainly packaged.

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I love it when it comes in those little gram bags with smiley faces and stuff printed on them, lol.

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Plain gambling machines? No graphics, buzzing sounds and swirling lights. Just numbers or letters.

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