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Halcyon Daze

Climate Scientists Recieve Death Threats

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ruining things for everyone.

 

oh the .pain..oh the pain....I'm ruining it for everyone....aaahhh...how could you call me an "empty vessel"...I don't think I can go on any more....ooohhhh...he called me "hutchie boy"..the pain is just too much too bare.....Oh no....what shall I do.......

I found an image of you HD.....well its what I imagine you to look like...and you believe your off spring will be superior...tthhhpp!

nerd.jpg

Fuck this is fun.......

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Hutch, I am permanently amazed by your inability to cogently and scientifically express why you and your denialist sources are right, and why tens of thousands of the world's scientists are not only wrong, but are perpetrating a global conspiracy of fraud. I am however not frustrated with you as an individual, nor am I especially angry at you. There's simply no point, because what God didn't put there man can't.

If you think that I'm smug, that's your issue and not mine. I don't feel smug, and the fact that it's so difficult to get those who deny climate science to actually enter into a rational discussion about why they reflexively disagree with objective evidence, only makes it less likely that I would ever be smug about this subject. I am however confident about my commentary on climatological matters discussed here, because I have an intimate and a long understanding of the process that is used to derive it, and I because am familiar with much of the relevant knowledge that has been gained by my professional colleagues. Basically, I know what I'm talking about, and you don't, and I can spot the climatological pseudoscientific crap from across the room.

Seriously, if you're confronted - and affronted - by my challenges of your conclusions, you should step to the plate and investigate why I make those challenges. Not doing so is either intellectual laziness, or avoidance of facing the truth.

And you say that it "is no longer even about global warming and hasn't been for ages". Well, if that's the case then you're posting on the wrong thread, because this thread is about climate science and climate scientists. It's not about carbon tax and whether that is the best way to reduce emissions... and if that is your beef then you should be doubly keen to actually understand the climatology, because you can't objectively criticise the economic response if you don't understand the science upon which it's based.

And once again I'll point out that the political/social/economic response to the science is a different matter to the science itself. If a cardiac surgeon tells you that you have to have a (possibly costly) heart operation to save your life, and if you're rational, you don't claim that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Sure, you can get a second (and third) opinion - from other surgeons, and not from the pizza boy - but trying to say that cardiology is bunkum doesn't change the fact of having a dicky ticker. It especially doesn't make sense if you're doing so because you're too tight to pay for the remedy, and if not paying now will only make it more costly in the future. And it's bizarre behaviour if having the treament early actually means that you can earn more income doing things that you otherwise can't/won't do now.

If you don't want to pay to fix what is a real problem, just say so. It'd be more intellectually honest than trying to disparage the science just because you don't like its evidence and the conclusions. Shooting the messenger might make you feel better, but it doesn't change the message. If you don't agree with the science you should, for once, actually try to address specifics instead of spam-dumping heresay from non-scientists, and bagging the people who try to pull you up when you do.

 

Ah success....another Woody rant with a side order from the foot soldiers and the "just vote yes" man...awesome result....

I'm on fire......"I love the smell of anarchy in the morning....

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Least the government is starting be honest about what a carbon tax will do to temps around the world....NOTHING! All pain no fucking gain....

The question...Can you provide details on how much the global temperature will drop with the introduction of the this tax in 2020 (~5years)/ 2025 (~10years) /2065 (~50 years)?

The answer....

dreyfus1_thumb.JPG

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Keep going Hutch.

You're amazing everyone with your level of intellectual analysis.

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...this thread is about climate science and climate scientists. It's not about carbon tax and whether that is the best way to reduce emissions...

...you can't objectively criticise the economic response if you don't understand the science upon which it's based.

And once again I'll point out that the political/social/economic response to the science is a different matter to the science itself. If a cardiac surgeon tells you that you have to have a (possibly costly) heart operation to save your life, and if you're rational, you don't claim that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

I think that the whole contention is that the political/social/economic response is as much going to determine the science, or how the questions are framed that get the best paid for scientific answers, as much as any ideal of scientific objectivity, for these are all pointed studies designed to find what the funding said it would. Not to dismiss all the science off hand like that, but you can't ignore this bias.

Furthermore the political/social/economic response is the very reason for this science gaining such popularity in recent times, saving the world wasn't such a big issue when we had to focus on other "enemies" to give up our money and freedom.

If me discussing how the incredibly-fucking-obvious-and-pathetic-attempt-at-a-money-grab-that-is-this-proposed-carbon-tax is completely useless at solving the issues that this new popular politicised science warns of- is out of place here then that's fair enough, but then so is banging on about climate change and telling us a carbon tax is the only solution!

...I'd see a cardiologist for a diagnosis and a cardiac surgeon if need be, I would invest my money into my survival with trust in both professions. Now if I instead opted for giving my money to Benny Hinn and relied on faith to save the day, that would be a better metaphor to describe the efficacy of giving up more money to known liars and thieves on a vague promise that god willing you might be saved. The only thing more economic burdens are trying to save is this goliath of a system, we will get chewed up and spat out in the process of trying to save it, our best intentions will pave the road straight to hell.

Every time your survival is called into question by politicians and the mass media it is a form of coercion. It is a death threat or "an offer you can't refuse" where you must sign the contract or have your brains splattered on it. Some countries are made examples of.

...Somebody debunk HAARP for me so I can dismiss all this crazy weather as the result of merely human ignorance instead of malicious intent and sleep easy at night knowing we're just more stupid than we are capable of evil... although I don't know which is scarier.

Edited by The Dude

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^^^^NICE.....

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Somebody debunk HAARP for me so I can dismiss all this crazy weather as the result of merely human ignorance instead of malicious intent and sleep easy at night knowing we're just more stupid than we are capable of evil... although I don't know which is scarier.

 

The sad thing is, theoretically HAARP is capable of doing alot of the things it is accused of. Sadly I think too much dis information has been spread for any of us to "really" know the truth. All we can do is speculate, and prey that we can take things back into our own hands. Haarp has many applications-

Weather

Transhumanism

Communication

Weapons systems

Research

There is a lot of investment in this technology and HAARP in alaska isn't the only place harnessing this technology. I have also heard that there is potential for HAARP like technologies within our own Country.....

EXMOUTH WA

PINEGAP NT

Good luck....

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I wonder why? Cause the more you shout someone down the more likely they are to turn to the dark side....plus you lot have done a shit house job in selling a fraud...when alarmists keep getting found out and then they are defended or worse still, just swept under a rug people start turning off. You guys have done yourselves a disservice...I'm the perfect example of what you are creating....biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

And I'm lovin it......

Here's a new sign of the times.

Almost no one has gone from skeptic to believer on global warming. The conversion flow is nearly all one-way traffic. But on the Skeptoid site, author Craig Good is a "convert" of a sort, and I have to give him credit for writing the most sensible advice yet for believers of man-made global warming (see below).

But before anyone gets too excited, the two key questions here are: how much of a skeptic was he, and what did it take to change his mind? Answer, not much and not much.

This is not a big believer-awakening-moment of the Mark Lynas type, or another Judith Currysort of conversion. Both of those were active, involved and outspoken in the climate debate. Craig Good's entire skeptical position can be summed up in a few paragraphs, so yes, he qualifies as a skeptic, of the gut-hunch-it's-wrong-but-haven't-read-a-single-skeptical-paper-type skeptic.

If there are grades of skeptic from 1 to 10, he was only a 2.

So here's the flash of insight, that's never been seen before from alarmist circles

This is great stuff (if blindingly obvious):

To my friends on the Left: Do you want to convince more skeptics? I mean really? Is the truth more important than your politics? Great. I have some suggestions.

Stop calling people "deniers". That's very clearly a slap in the face, designed to link skeptics to holocaust deniers. Maybe it plays well with the base, but you'll make no friends nor influence people with that kind of disrespect. Don't poison the well.

Stop calling it "climate change". That's a weasel-worded political phrase that dances around the real issue. It looks stupid. Of course the climate is changing. It always has! If the problem isn't human-caused warming, there isn't a problem. So call it what it is: anthropogenic global warming.

Stop blaming every unusual weather event on global warming. "We blame global warming" has become a joke on the Right, and for good reason. Scientists need to do a better job explaining why a global average temperature change so small that nobody could feel the difference (how about I warm your room up a half a degree and see if you can tell?) can change weather patterns in a way that some places might actually get colder and some weather may get more intense – sometimes. But blaming every heat wave, hurricane, tornado and earthquake on global warming only confuses the issue. It's hard enough for most people to understand the difference between climate and weather.

So what was his epiphany?

He watched a Dr. Gleick who was polite, and then read things on skepticalscience.

Did he read any criticisms of not-so-skepticalscience? It doesn't seem so.

To my friends on the Right: Are you willing to follow the data? Good, because ifnothing can convince you to change your mind, your mind is closed.

Exactly. Follow the data. What data though? You mean the raw numbers that the CRU team lost, or the data Michael Mann hides, or do you just mean the "data" on meaningless things like the number of climate scientists who tick "yes" on a 2 minute internet survey? (And since we are asking, what do you mean friends on the Right? I thought this was a science question?)

Perhaps it's Freudian?

As for following the data. Yes, "let's".

As I keep saying, 28 million weather balloons, 6000 boreholes, 3000 argo buoys, then there's the mystery of the missing heat energy which is not stored in the oceans and 30 years of satellites, not to mention 65 million years of climate information. They all point to the same conclusion — that CO2′s effect is minor.

"Look at the data. That skepticalscience.com site is a good resource. Forgive them for including four economic/political questions (which can't be addressed by science) and look at the other 160 or so. What you'll find is that there are multiple lines of data all converging on one conclusion: The net effect of our increased CO2 output is accelerated warming of the planet. It would be beyond the scope of this blog post to address every one of your very legitimate questions. Let them do it."

 

 

We don't need 200 papers, we
that
most important assumptions in the long run.

SkepticalScience do put up a good job of it, really, especially when you consider how little real evidence is going their way. But with $30 billion dollars (and the rest) funding many teams of researchers to find a connection between CO2 and the climate, there are a lot of papers to list: irrelevant ones, poor quality ones,ones that deceive, and ones that review all thoseirrelevant, poor quality, and deceptive papers, and pretend they've come to a new conclusion. We don't need 200 papers, we need the critical results thatvalidate the model's most important assumptions in the long run.

The best way to quickly understand this debate is to read the Skeptics Handbook, then read the Skepticalscience belated attempt to knock it down, and then read my reply: The Unskeptical Guide to the Skeptics Handbook.

Craig, you are not a true skeptic until you looked at both sides of the story.

http://joannenova.co...-but-not-quite/

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Keep going Hutch.

You're amazing everyone with your level of intellectual analysis.

 

I love how you always believe you speak for every one......

128670780748527815.jpg

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Guys just ignore the troll. He started out with something to say and got sore that people aren't agreeing with him and taking his word for everything he has to say, as has been said before me, juvenile and unintelligent arguments, so why are you still arguing? Is changing his mind meaningful to you? I suggest an old remedy, it goes something along the lines of...

Don't feed the trolls.

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Guys just ignore the troll. He started out with something to say and got sore that people aren't agreeing with him and taking his word for everything he has to say, as has been said before me, juvenile and unintelligent arguments, so why are you still arguing? Is changing his mind meaningful to you? I suggest an old remedy, it goes something along the lines of...

Don't feed the trolls.

 

The sad thing is they need you to tell them that Sheather.....speaking of juvenile......sort out your conundrum yet? You know what I mean....

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Guys just ignore the troll. He started out with something to say and got sore that people aren't agreeing with him and taking his word for everything he has to say, as has been said before me, juvenile and unintelligent arguments, so why are you still arguing? Is changing his mind meaningful to you? I suggest an old remedy, it goes something along the lines of...

I can only imagine you're talking about Hutch here.

speaking of juvenile..

Check out these quotes:

oh the .pain..oh the pain....I'm ruining it for everyone....aaahhh...how could you call me an "empty vessel"...I don't think I can go on any more....ooohhhh...he called me "hutchie boy"..the pain is just too much too bare.....Oh no....what shall I do.......
Fuck this is fun.......
Ah success....another Woody rant with a side order from the foot soldiers and the "just vote yes" man...awesome result....
I'm the perfect example of what you are creating....:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And I'm lovin it......

Sure is juvenile. Grow up Hutch.

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I can only imagine you're talking about Hutch here.

Check out these quotes:

Sure is juvenile. Grow up Hutch.

 

Yes sir.....

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Indeed I was talking about Hutch, I would have specified but it didn't seem necessary...

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Cost of living to rise by $3000 in next year

That's without the Carbon Tax mind you...

 

@syncromesh, As tripsis said, the cost of living rises all the time, how about blaming the sellout of electircal companies. Who would have known that selling them would mean electricity would cost more *cough* i mean apart from the fact they now ALL need to hire staff to do the jobs that were once done by a single group AND buy electricity off a single company at the same, or higher price than WE USED TO.

Also the carbon tax would have approximately 40% or more of the revenue generated put straight back into homes to help with covering the rise in prices. The idea isn't JUST about reducing carbon there is a bigger picture here. Through taxing carbon emissions it FORCES businesses to take a greener approach to how they run. This in turn saves fossil fuels, trees, wildlife and any other areas that are harmed by the production of electricity, paper and all the rest.

They don't listen to us, or the government, ASKING them to do it. But i can guarantee when there is money on the line they will take every step within their power to minimise their output. This is how large corporations work, and smaller ones at that.

They cater to the disabled, so they will buy things from them not others.

They cater to the elderly, so they will buy stuff from them not others.

They cater to other nationalities/cultures, so they will buy from them and not others.

None of these things are done out of the corporations hearts. It is a factor of money. And with the carbon tax it would be the same. Sure we make up less than a percent of total emissions but the amount of fuels etc we are taking out of the planet is causing irreparable harm. There is only so much hollowing our shell of a world can take before parts are forced to collapse under gravity, or crack and absorb vast amounts of the ocean. I am not a conspiracy theorist but energy is being taken from inside and pumped into the atmosphere creating even more downward pressure, it is only a matter of time.

Your point being? It costs money to live in this society, fact of life.

 

Exactly. If it bothers you get a better job. Or live on the streets, it is your call.

Don't feed the trolls.

 

Aww spoil all the fun. I like feeding the animals !

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Indeed I was talking about Hutch, I would have specified but it didn't seem necessary...

 

Well then it would have been a direct attack instead of a veiled reference to somebody -where everyone knows who you're talking about- so that you could have that insider joke (we all know who we're talking about right guys? :lol:) style of snobby derision and project an attitude of us versus the troll, cuz group mentality always = win.

Now that you got called up on it you had to name names and now it's just lame name calling again.

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[edit] not really sure if my rant made sense, I'm no economist.

Edited by The Dude

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I work in the Solar Industry. I am hopefull that if a tax gets passed some of the money will get diverted into schemes that assist in getting more people connected. Only trouble is getting the Big business's to pay us what we pay them for power, that way its balanced. At the moment in NSW there is NO feed in Tariff, which means you need to use your power as you generate it for it to be worth while. Who sits at home all day and turns everything off at night?

The issue with moving green is economic. Without govt input it would be way to expensive to power your home, which means the rich just get the benifit and the poor (majority) are unfortunately stuck using the coal fired methods. Taxing carbon isn't going to raise enough money to push the economy green, as people are already programed to pay big business more as time goes on.

I think, a far far far far far far better way of raising money to put towards green energy would be to withdraw all troops from overseas operations and reduce offshore military funding....

I mean, didn't we just spend billions on a fleet of obsolete submarines....

A carbon tax is a waste of time, lets look at other ways to raise money to put towards sustainable technology.

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I'll open a google pay per click account. For every click I will donate towards a green tech.....

Lets make google pay.

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There's a very simple reason why the cost of living is rising all the time, something to do with the reason the value of gold always goes up... or the value of our fake money keeps depreciating through inflation. Look up the evil that is central private banks and then tell me, "...well y'know that's just the society we live in". Well fuck that! I didn't chose to get ripped off by perpetual debt!

 

No real money ever actually changes hands.....you are dead right about perpetual debt and they will defend it with our lives...we are the worker bees...every dollar created is owed by somebody else...who holds the debt? If there was no debt there would be no currency...It's a real interesting subject and worth a thread on its own.

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Who sits at home all day and turns everything off at night?

 

Sad to say it but meblush.gif Power has become a luxury some of us can no longer afford....I would kill for a set of solar panels on the roof but the cost is prohibitive. I just don't have that kind of money any more....What I want is cheap power.

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If there was no debt there would be no currency...

That not exactly true. Currency existed before debt. Shells, whale teeth, the rai stones of Yap, gold, etc., were all forms of currency that existed without the need for debt. They all had extrinsic value that could be traded for other items of value.

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Sad to say it but meblush.gif Power has become a luxury some of us can no longer afford....I would kill for a set of solar panels on the roof but the cost is prohibitive. I just don't have that kind of money any more....What I want is cheap power.

 

We've always shut off everything but essentials like the fridge when not needed, we might be stingy but we've never seen the point of paying extra to have appliances sitting on standby all night.

Perhaps you should look into one of the non profit co-ops buying solar & wind gear from china, i'm told its pretty cheap.

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Plug time.....If ANY members want solar anything or renewable energy products please contact me. We are the Australian Distributors for LG solar and have been in the game for over 10 years now. More than happy to give anyone from our community information or pricing, I work in wholesale and I know reputable installers from nearly every corner of Australia who purchase from us. If I don't know the answers there is a team of Electricians , Engineers and Technicians more than happy to give advice. Just send me a P.M.....

Boom

Sly

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